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Maria's answer to question 20 is ground-breaking! Logain Send a noteboard - 10/06/2010 07:36:40 PM
Focusing strictly on the One Power Strength questions and answers...


9. Question--In [LoC; 30, To Heal Again - 617] Siuan, after being healed, says to Nynaeve that ‘if she could heal her to half of what she was’ she would be better off. This has led to the perception that Siuan and Leane are less than half their original strength. Yet in [CoT; 19, Surprises – 459] we find out that both women stand several steps above the Aes Sedai minimum strength. This seems problematic—the range of Aes Sedai strength does not appear to be so great as to allow for this. So the question is, did Siuan and Leane in fact lose such a large amount of strength as they appear to have?

Maria Answers--Yes, they did lose a large amount of strength. The range of strength is greater than you think, I believe. At the beginning, Siuan was near the top (and Leane close behind); if she were half the strength she used to be, she’d be in the middle. Instead, she’s somewhere in the lower half, but not absolute rock bottom, nor nearly as low as Daigian Moseneillin.

...

20. Question--Is strength in the power evenly distributed? Would on a scale of one to one hundred the most channelers be on the 50 mark? (within a gender, of course).

Maria Answers--Jim described it as a bell curve, with most channelers in the middle.

21. Question--Of the really strong channelers we know the nature to, all but one have been sparkers. This has led to the belief that sparkers are on average stronger than learners. Is this belief justified?

Maria Answers--No. “Having been born with the inherent spark apparently is not an indicator of strength. There are as many with weak potential who will channel whether they are taught or not as there are of great potential” (from Jim’s notes). The stronger ones just get more attention.

22. Question--Do stronger sparkers stand a better chance of surviving touching the Source unaided?

Maria Answers--It depends on what you mean by “stronger” sparkers. If you mean strength in the One Power, not really. If you mean strength of will or character, perhaps. Jim said of touching the One Power unaided: “if you have not learned some sort of rough control, conscious or not, you will die screaming and writhing in agony.”


The most earth shattering revelation, in my opinion, is Maria's answer to question 20. For YEARS, and it has been years for many of us, we've debated how the curve looked.

This confirms that the bell curve peaks at 50 on a scale of 0 to 100. This means we need to redo ALL of our one power strength estimates.

For example, Moiraine must have 50+ strength, putting people like Elayne/Aviendha/Egwene somewhere around 60+

This also means we have to throw out previous shielding theories (as a measure of one power strength) and create new models for strength based on shielding.

For example, Rand knows that no three regular AS can shield him, but he might be in trouble if one was (I forget which forsaken he names). Anyway, my point is that 3 average Aes Sedai are going to average at least 150 power. Yet, Rand knows 150 power against his sub-100 power will never defeat him. I say sub-100 because when Rand makes the comment about 3 AS shielding him he still grows some after that comment. So when Rand made the comment he was less than full potential.

I need time to digest all the implications of Maria's answers and time to rethink/create a new One Power strength model.

Maybe
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Several good MAFOs from Dragonmount - 10/06/2010 07:07:55 PM 2203 Views
Some good RAFOs here - 10/06/2010 07:31:56 PM 969 Views
Yeah... - 10/06/2010 07:36:55 PM 887 Views
Maria's answer to question 20 is ground-breaking! - 10/06/2010 07:36:40 PM 1127 Views
No, it merely means that the Bell Curve does not refer to absolute strength... - 10/06/2010 07:42:31 PM 1004 Views
See the question again man! - 10/06/2010 07:48:57 PM 964 Views
That contradicts your assertion that Moiraine is stronger than the average woman... - 10/06/2010 07:50:11 PM 1042 Views
How? - 10/06/2010 07:54:41 PM 982 Views
I need to re-evaluate nothing! - 10/06/2010 07:46:20 PM 976 Views
Think logically for a moment... - 10/06/2010 07:49:10 PM 822 Views
Who said Egwene is twice as strong as Moiraine? - 10/06/2010 07:52:27 PM 1067 Views
Aviendha did in FoH... - 10/06/2010 07:54:32 PM 823 Views
Nope! - 10/06/2010 07:55:55 PM 985 Views
Your quotes are faulty - 10/06/2010 07:57:18 PM 997 Views
In what sense though? - 10/06/2010 07:59:00 PM 988 Views
Forkroot - 10/06/2010 08:04:50 PM 923 Views
Again... later that night? - 10/06/2010 08:05:39 PM 769 Views
What do you mean? - 10/06/2010 08:07:24 PM 973 Views
See below... - 10/06/2010 08:11:24 PM 888 Views
Re: See below... - 10/06/2010 08:12:34 PM 934 Views
I just did. - 10/06/2010 08:16:09 PM 751 Views
Well then we disagree - 10/06/2010 08:18:10 PM 951 Views
BUT WHAT ABOUT LATER IN THE NIGHT! - 10/06/2010 08:20:21 PM 801 Views
Ah, you mean later later ... - 10/06/2010 08:29:59 PM 896 Views
Forkroot wears off, you know? - 10/06/2010 08:45:33 PM 995 Views
Yes I know - 10/06/2010 09:05:29 PM 986 Views
I've explained it before in this thread... - 10/06/2010 09:17:10 PM 974 Views
Re: I've explained it before in this thread... - 10/06/2010 09:37:39 PM 965 Views
Re: I've explained it before in this thread... - 10/06/2010 09:51:40 PM 901 Views
Re: I've explained it before in this thread... - 10/06/2010 10:05:37 PM 928 Views
Are you sure you're feeling fine? - 10/06/2010 10:18:44 PM 995 Views
Re: Are you sure you're feeling fine? - 10/06/2010 10:29:04 PM 1094 Views
Re: Are you sure you're feeling fine? - 10/06/2010 10:47:00 PM 886 Views
RJ writes that Amys cannot hold Egwene. BS writes that Barasene can. Who are you gonna believe? - 10/06/2010 08:31:35 PM 814 Views
It wasn't BS... both were RJ! - 10/06/2010 08:41:54 PM 892 Views
In that case, there is no problem... - 10/06/2010 08:45:05 PM 862 Views
But that isn't what the text says... - 10/06/2010 08:57:42 PM 771 Views
How can Egwene be strong enough to overcome Katerine and Silviana together then? - 10/06/2010 09:07:36 PM 974 Views
She also says Egwene is Aes Sedai in the same sentence... - 10/06/2010 09:25:16 PM 1013 Views
Yeah, both were RJ - 10/06/2010 08:49:13 PM 880 Views
Yeah yeah... RJ lied, Maria lied. Only you make sense. I'm finished with this debate. - 10/06/2010 08:59:06 PM 979 Views
- 10/06/2010 09:07:52 PM 949 Views
Really? - 10/06/2010 09:29:22 PM 829 Views
Re: Really? - 10/06/2010 09:39:21 PM 934 Views
Re: Really? - 10/06/2010 09:43:41 PM 797 Views
Re: Really? - 10/06/2010 09:50:23 PM 974 Views
I haven't refuted? - 10/06/2010 09:53:17 PM 999 Views
Here's what is clear: - 10/06/2010 09:02:41 PM 867 Views
IMO it's easy to disprove - 10/06/2010 09:22:23 PM 856 Views
Dude... - 10/06/2010 09:27:34 PM 775 Views
At least we agree on one thing - 10/06/2010 09:29:14 PM 866 Views
No... - 10/06/2010 09:32:06 PM 783 Views
Re: No... - 10/06/2010 09:43:59 PM 955 Views
- 10/06/2010 09:57:25 PM 797 Views
Re: - 10/06/2010 10:12:29 PM 906 Views
Re: - 10/06/2010 10:34:28 PM 910 Views
Thought on this - 13/06/2010 01:09:29 PM 820 Views
Have to agree with Sidious on this point - 11/06/2010 02:49:58 AM 808 Views
That was kind of my point... - 11/06/2010 12:19:23 PM 545 Views
of course Katerine would have complained - 12/06/2010 12:53:31 PM 919 Views
The rate forkroot wears off? - 16/06/2010 12:36:38 PM 910 Views
You missed that she isn't being given Forkroot at night at all! - 16/06/2010 04:47:59 PM 826 Views
Typos, screwed up what I meant - 17/06/2010 02:31:50 AM 837 Views
You are... - 17/06/2010 04:32:47 AM 1045 Views
Maria's other answer adresses this... - 10/06/2010 08:14:54 PM 702 Views
Then one Aes Sedai cannot shield her. But one did. - 10/06/2010 08:16:41 PM 838 Views
You can be much weaker than someone, and hold them shielded, if they are already cut off... - 10/06/2010 08:19:15 PM 802 Views
But, if you are much stronger, you can break that shield... - 10/06/2010 08:22:25 PM 816 Views
Easy... - 10/06/2010 08:24:59 PM 783 Views
What has that got to do with it? - 10/06/2010 08:32:56 PM 967 Views
Amys is not LESS than half of Egwene's strength. You cannot hold someone if you are LESS than half.. - 10/06/2010 08:47:41 PM 871 Views
Amys is as strong as Moiraine, at the most one level lower. Barasine is weaker than Katarine, who... - 10/06/2010 09:00:26 PM 1015 Views
I can agree with that. - 10/06/2010 09:09:07 PM 772 Views
How can you agree with it? - 10/06/2010 09:13:55 PM 981 Views
I'm thinking Berowin here... - 10/06/2010 09:16:41 PM 973 Views
Exactly. - 10/06/2010 09:18:19 PM 844 Views
... - 10/06/2010 09:12:21 PM 754 Views
Agreed, but... - 10/06/2010 09:13:59 PM 927 Views
Re: Agreed, but... - 10/06/2010 09:16:30 PM 725 Views
Good point... - 10/06/2010 09:18:53 PM 944 Views
Or, you know, you're wrong? - 10/06/2010 09:27:55 PM 810 Views
Re: Good point... - 10/06/2010 09:28:02 PM 1008 Views
We've had this discussion before - 13/06/2010 01:59:34 PM 909 Views
Or, you know, you can have the grace to question your antiquated strength list... - 10/06/2010 09:22:51 PM 811 Views
The Bell Curve fits perfectly if one simple fact is true... - 10/06/2010 09:31:31 PM 760 Views
Or, you know, you can stop misinterpreting Aviendha... - 10/06/2010 09:40:05 PM 884 Views
I'd be perfectly happy to adjust my list if it made sense - 10/06/2010 09:32:35 PM 745 Views
Uhhh? - 10/06/2010 09:41:59 PM 759 Views
Re: Uhhh? - 10/06/2010 09:48:58 PM 759 Views
DUDE! - 10/06/2010 09:58:59 PM 787 Views
Re: DUDE! - 10/06/2010 10:09:11 PM 771 Views
I explained... - 10/06/2010 10:27:44 PM 765 Views
Re: I explained... - 10/06/2010 10:45:58 PM 871 Views
Rand seems to shield Egwene and Elayne TOGETHER, pretty easily... - 10/06/2010 09:54:03 PM 1349 Views
That's fairly simple, actually... - 10/06/2010 10:08:53 PM 983 Views
Nope. Rand was also cut off from the Source when he broke a shield held by 3 Aes Sedai... - 10/06/2010 11:18:41 PM 960 Views
Because that channeler is much stronger? I'm not getting your confusion here. *NM* - 10/06/2010 11:27:31 PM 470 Views
Your Aes Sedai are close to the average woman in strength, right... - 10/06/2010 11:42:01 PM 1010 Views
You are making a couple of mistakes - 13/06/2010 02:28:41 PM 876 Views
You're missing an important point... - 14/06/2010 11:10:55 PM 861 Views
Yes, what do you mean? You are actually proving our point... - 10/06/2010 08:10:50 PM 735 Views
No, here's the quote: I hate having to pull out my books with their yellowed pages... - 10/06/2010 08:01:54 PM 803 Views
Why would she need surprise against two? That was against five of them... - 10/06/2010 08:04:57 PM 820 Views
That makes no sense whatsoever... - 10/06/2010 08:06:53 PM 782 Views
Simply this... - 10/06/2010 08:13:42 PM 800 Views
Very poor evidence - 10/06/2010 08:11:26 PM 926 Views
No it isn't... - 10/06/2010 08:18:09 PM 873 Views
Re: No it isn't... - 10/06/2010 08:32:17 PM 961 Views
no she said Egwene is stronger than Amys and Melaine combined - 11/06/2010 12:46:29 AM 877 Views
The actual quote says Amys and Melaine combined... - 11/06/2010 12:25:07 PM 933 Views
Here's the problem with that... - 11/06/2010 12:42:41 PM 785 Views
Linked circles are more effective than individual channelers... - 11/06/2010 01:57:43 PM 884 Views
That much stronger? - 14/06/2010 11:06:18 PM 944 Views
On this we agree. - 13/06/2010 02:34:45 PM 768 Views
I think you are misreading her. - 10/06/2010 07:47:06 PM 725 Views
Bingo *NM* - 10/06/2010 07:51:29 PM 553 Views
I don't agree - 10/06/2010 07:49:41 PM 797 Views
BAH! Its infuriating how you have so many blinders... Eerily Aes Sedai of you. - 10/06/2010 07:54:23 PM 903 Views
Hmm... - 10/06/2010 07:55:59 PM 716 Views
Because of the question to which she responded... - 10/06/2010 07:57:55 PM 756 Views
Re: Because of the question to which she responded... - 10/06/2010 08:06:16 PM 885 Views
Without contradicting the latter... - 10/06/2010 08:15:11 PM 787 Views
Ah well - 10/06/2010 08:20:32 PM 752 Views
Which is even more evidence... - 10/06/2010 08:23:28 PM 855 Views
Dude - 10/06/2010 08:30:57 PM 977 Views
It isn't omission - 14/06/2010 10:54:47 PM 929 Views
omg not this again *NM* - 10/06/2010 07:52:26 PM 904 Views
Great! Two of my OP strength ideas have been solidified! - 10/06/2010 07:39:53 PM 1006 Views
Nope... - 10/06/2010 07:46:31 PM 858 Views
Who said Cadsuane was 50? - 10/06/2010 07:51:14 PM 890 Views
So how can Egwene be twice as strong as Moiraine, if Moiraine is at 55? - 10/06/2010 07:53:11 PM 761 Views
She cannot be because she isn't. Silviana can shield Egwene alone, for God's sake. So can Amys! - 10/06/2010 07:56:26 PM 701 Views
Amys can't hold her properly - 10/06/2010 07:59:47 PM 730 Views
What about later that night? - 10/06/2010 08:02:16 PM 722 Views
No she didn't - 16/06/2010 03:02:21 PM 855 Views
No she didn't what? - 16/06/2010 04:46:05 PM 910 Views
Re: No she didn't what? - 17/06/2010 06:16:16 AM 744 Views
Re: No she didn't what? - 17/06/2010 06:02:57 PM 904 Views
you are arguing in a circle - 17/06/2010 06:31:19 PM 1222 Views
Why do you think it's a linear scale? - 16/06/2010 05:25:56 AM 876 Views
That's simple... - 16/06/2010 06:36:44 AM 828 Views
Re: That's simple... - 16/06/2010 12:27:07 PM 776 Views
Your concept is not mathematically right. So yeah, forget discussing it. - 16/06/2010 04:41:13 PM 967 Views
Dang, Cyndane isn't using Cabriana's body. - 10/06/2010 08:25:20 PM 808 Views
But they didn't look alike anyway. *NM* - 10/06/2010 08:59:35 PM 556 Views
Eh, yeah. - 12/06/2010 08:24:10 PM 759 Views
The blue flash RAFO irritates me- I can't see how that will be relevant. The Min thing was new - 10/06/2010 08:50:52 PM 946 Views
RJ already RAFOed the incident with Thom's knives/daggers before - 10/06/2010 08:57:52 PM 1023 Views
They RAFO way too much. - 11/06/2010 12:25:56 AM 747 Views
It isn't, unless she's implying the Creator helped him out or some other such thing - 11/06/2010 12:56:49 AM 777 Views
Just to make things clear on the strength thing... - 10/06/2010 09:08:02 PM 1056 Views
It is possible Maria was answering the first question and ignoring the second... - 10/06/2010 09:29:59 PM 783 Views
That still proves my point... - 10/06/2010 09:33:10 PM 959 Views
Re: That still proves my point... - 10/06/2010 09:45:39 PM 811 Views
Then why... - 10/06/2010 10:00:00 PM 902 Views
Re: Then why... - 10/06/2010 10:07:56 PM 772 Views
God, what stupidity! - 10/06/2010 10:10:32 PM 769 Views
Re: God, what stupidity! - 10/06/2010 10:16:38 PM 877 Views
It doesn't have to be 1-100. - 10/06/2010 10:32:17 PM 830 Views
Re: It doesn't have to be 1-100. - 10/06/2010 10:41:02 PM 1096 Views
That's a mathematical impossibility... - 10/06/2010 11:26:23 PM 919 Views
Just popping in. I think you're arguing over non-existent delineations. - 11/06/2010 12:44:40 AM 859 Views
You're pretty much agreeing with me, you know? - 11/06/2010 12:32:44 PM 826 Views
Yes. - 14/06/2010 10:31:00 PM 946 Views
Re: Just to make things clear on the strength thing... - 14/06/2010 11:21:31 PM 1156 Views
Huh? - 14/06/2010 11:48:43 PM 750 Views
Also interesting... - 10/06/2010 09:38:27 PM 895 Views
I'm even more confused (parallel worlds and the Pattern) - 10/06/2010 09:48:17 PM 866 Views
Nah,... - 11/06/2010 11:38:20 AM 867 Views
Fascinating! - 13/06/2010 02:30:42 AM 883 Views
You know, these things always end up pissing me off. - 11/06/2010 12:25:05 AM 847 Views
I think she's saving that info for her WoT Encyclopedia. - 11/06/2010 12:54:38 AM 896 Views
Re: You know, these things always end up pissing me off. - 11/06/2010 03:22:53 AM 965 Views
Re: You know, these things always end up pissing me off. - 11/06/2010 12:29:37 PM 890 Views
I agree - 11/06/2010 01:14:36 PM 1009 Views
Re: I agree - 12/06/2010 03:02:32 PM 789 Views
BS didn't answer with "Read and find out" - 12/06/2010 03:28:05 PM 819 Views
We were speaking about Maria giving a RAFO on the topic, not Sanderson. *NM* - 13/06/2010 12:05:17 AM 483 Views
Actually she said "No"... *NM* - 13/06/2010 01:06:18 AM 574 Views
I agree with Jack and Sidious and not with you. - 11/06/2010 03:20:30 PM 914 Views
Well, on the Thom question... - 11/06/2010 08:25:09 AM 815 Views
Yeah - 11/06/2010 08:26:33 AM 912 Views
Re: Yeah - 15/06/2010 12:25:21 AM 768 Views
Eh, practically useless. - 14/06/2010 11:50:06 PM 793 Views
I agree. I think she is saving the good stuff for the encyclopedia. *NM* - 15/06/2010 04:17:07 PM 454 Views
Yeah. I do think she's taking advantage of these poor saps, though. - 17/06/2010 03:52:33 PM 1361 Views

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