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Re: A few details to consider orius Send a noteboard - 04/06/2010 07:33:39 AM
The fact that Egwene figures out that sul'dam can be collared, and yet NO Seanchan person in the culture itself has figured this out is frankly amazing. It defies belief, but RJ seems to suggest it is so. These folks really are brainwashed by their society into not thinking certain things. It's actually incredible that they've managed to maintain an empire for so long and conquer so much of Randland so successfully, given that they have been trained from birth by their culture to be so blinkered about what is staring them in the face. Tuon, who despite being rather xenophobic and superstitious, is actually pretty sharp, and yet even she hardly blinks an eye when finding out her culture is built on such extraordinary misdirection.


Perhaps not.

Egwene knows the difference between women who spark and women who can be taught because she was taught it by AS. AS who maintain some traditions of using the OP that date back to the AS of the AoL even though there's much that's been forgotten. But they do know enough to know the difference between sparkers and learners and enough to at least theorize that they're selectively breeding the population of the Westlands to not channel.

Now compare to the Seanchan:

The Seanchan AS never unified like those of the Westlands. So there were dozens or even hundreds of woman who called themselves AS and ruled as queens over petty little kindgoms. Each of these AS had a handful of students at best, either their daughters or girls they discovered here and there and taught them probably as heirs, enforcers, or something similar. Or these AS saw girls who could channel as potential rivals and tried to eliminiate them. My guess is that somewhere along the line, the fractured Seanchan AS lost the knowledge that women could be taught to channel.

Then came Hawkwing's sons. They naturally had no idea how channeling worked, because even the AS of the Westlands never went out of their way to explain things about the OP to anyone who wasn't an initiate of the WT. So then Deane, in a failed attempt to kiss Luthair's ass, gives him the first damane. This damane was probably a sparker, I would imagine that Deane might not have been aware that women could learn to channel. Luthair probably inherited his father's mistrust and hatred of AS, and the common folk of Seanchan probably feared and hated their AS rulers, so they all were probably more interested in seeing Deane collared than wondering why she could be used on either end of the a'dam.

Now it's possible a sparker who hasn't sparked could test positive for sul'dam but not damane. I think either two things happen here:

1: The sparker eventually channels spontaneously and gets collared. Because she's now an unperson in Seanchan society, her identity is forgotten, and no one talks about her. So the whole matter gets suppressed.

2: Controlling an a'dam somehow allows her to master the OP subconsciously and survive. I think this is the more likely case. We know there are wilders like Nynaeve who use the OP completely unconsiously without ever being aware of channeling. I think this is the case with a sparker who ends up being a sul'dam first. Probably her block involves the a'dam, she can only channel when controlling a damane, and maybe even channels through the damane, so the other damane don't notice that a sul'dam is channeling.
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Seanchan girls. Do they live in terror until 25? - 02/06/2010 12:32:14 AM 1409 Views
A few details to consider - 02/06/2010 01:11:12 AM 796 Views
Re: A few details to consider - 02/06/2010 02:31:08 AM 807 Views
Wasn't talking about breeding damane - 03/06/2010 03:32:44 AM 801 Views
Re: Wasn't talking about breeding damane - 04/06/2010 07:30:55 PM 662 Views
Well, it took centuries for most people to understand breeding/genetics - 02/06/2010 08:57:43 PM 626 Views
Nobody knows about Sul'dam because it takes them extra long to learn. - 03/06/2010 07:58:41 AM 928 Views
Re: A few details to consider - 04/06/2010 07:33:39 AM 659 Views
I think it's seen as something that happens to other people. - 02/06/2010 02:20:09 AM 668 Views
I think they retest only the sul'dam - 02/06/2010 04:13:55 AM 837 Views
Re: I think they retest only the sul'dam - 04/06/2010 07:55:56 PM 634 Views
Point on the testing - 08/06/2010 02:15:26 AM 605 Views
Re: Point on the testing - 08/06/2010 02:46:06 PM 673 Views
Remember, Seancean have no idea channeling can be "learned" - 02/06/2010 07:04:11 AM 729 Views
This is how Damane and Sul'Dam are determined, straight from tGH - 03/06/2010 08:14:03 AM 1031 Views
That doesn't make sense. Are you sure they don't put the BRACELET on the girls, not the collar? - 04/06/2010 01:35:08 AM 624 Views
I am absolutely sure. Quote from book. - 04/06/2010 03:09:08 AM 689 Views
Re: I am absolutely sure. Quote from book. - 04/06/2010 11:54:25 AM 569 Views
Thanks Darius *NM* - 08/06/2010 01:48:28 AM 345 Views
Toun, though too young can be collared - 06/06/2010 03:29:29 AM 558 Views
I don't think Tuon will ever Channel - 06/06/2010 03:39:16 AM 662 Views
Everything points to a change in policy - 06/06/2010 04:04:33 AM 574 Views
Re: Everything points to a change in policy - 06/06/2010 04:18:21 AM 467 Views
Re: I don't think Tuon will ever Channel - 06/06/2010 05:07:40 AM 579 Views
Not at all - 02/06/2010 03:52:31 PM 552 Views
Re: Are the new damane actually tortured? - 02/06/2010 06:56:10 PM 698 Views
I think "tortured" is relative... - 03/06/2010 08:22:37 AM 640 Views
As with most things in Jordan's universe, I don't think it was thought through very seriously. - 03/06/2010 08:05:04 PM 579 Views
Huh? - 03/06/2010 08:44:35 PM 674 Views
Sure - 03/06/2010 09:00:40 PM 677 Views
Bah... - 03/06/2010 09:51:09 PM 642 Views
Jordan definitely made mistakes with the Ajahs. In particular, the Black Ajah ones who fled. - 03/06/2010 10:56:39 PM 631 Views
oh come now - 04/06/2010 12:58:44 AM 555 Views
Re: Sure - 04/06/2010 04:55:23 AM 716 Views
I don't know if that's totally true - 04/06/2010 12:09:29 PM 557 Views
Maybe you don't read that much serious literature? I just don't see why you are arguing this. - 04/06/2010 03:47:50 PM 585 Views
I actually don't read much fiction at all to be honest - 04/06/2010 04:00:03 PM 609 Views
You're right about the fact that I have mostly contempt for Jordan. - 04/06/2010 05:42:49 PM 587 Views
meh. I prefer non-fiction most of the time - 06/06/2010 03:44:38 AM 624 Views
I have read lots of fiction - 06/06/2010 03:57:07 AM 615 Views
Meh - 04/06/2010 05:03:41 PM 600 Views
LOL ... I hear ya on that - 06/06/2010 03:49:48 AM 618 Views
We've seen so little of the old tongue how can you tell? - 06/06/2010 03:33:46 AM 482 Views
This raises another question - 06/06/2010 04:13:25 AM 540 Views
Re: This raises another question - 06/06/2010 04:53:42 AM 597 Views

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