Despite the ability for some channelers to wield greater quantities of the One Power, magnitude actually doesn't correspond in a one-to-one relationship with increased quantity. Aes Sedai, for example, despite their various levels of strength, are not able to handle large volumes of Air the way Windfinders are, because their training favors more discrete weaves. Elayne and Egwene, for example, were far stronger than any Windfinder they encountered - yet manipulating Air and the weather in such a large amount was not something they were trained to do. And Mesaana's own comment was that Semirhage was not that skilled at weather manipulation, despite her increased strength.
I think this is why the Forsaken often comment on strength, but don't use the same distinctions an Aes Sedai does. To them, strength is not only what you are capable of channeling, but also what you are able to do. The only times we've seen someone get overwhelmed, for example, we see that they are not destroyed out of hand - they actually have the ability to assess the situation and/or retreat. And we've seen the Forsaken, with various levels of strength confront mixed sex Circles, which greatly increased their odds of being overwhelmed. Yet the only Forsaken to be destroyed was the least brave and capable among their number, despite the fact that they undoubtedly were no match in quantity of the One Power for the Circles they faced. If strength really was the be-all-and-end-all, the Forsaken would have been Shielded by the Circles and imprisoned, yet the only time a full Circle tried this, they were rebuffed and put on the defensive.
It seems to me that experience, training and skill plays a huge factor with Talents and affinities combined making it even more difficult that trying to over-simplify things in favor of one or more factor is just going to miss the point. Access to greater amounts of the One Power make it easier to accomplish things, but there are multiple ways to achieve an effect.
I think this is why the Forsaken often comment on strength, but don't use the same distinctions an Aes Sedai does. To them, strength is not only what you are capable of channeling, but also what you are able to do. The only times we've seen someone get overwhelmed, for example, we see that they are not destroyed out of hand - they actually have the ability to assess the situation and/or retreat. And we've seen the Forsaken, with various levels of strength confront mixed sex Circles, which greatly increased their odds of being overwhelmed. Yet the only Forsaken to be destroyed was the least brave and capable among their number, despite the fact that they undoubtedly were no match in quantity of the One Power for the Circles they faced. If strength really was the be-all-and-end-all, the Forsaken would have been Shielded by the Circles and imprisoned, yet the only time a full Circle tried this, they were rebuffed and put on the defensive.
It seems to me that experience, training and skill plays a huge factor with Talents and affinities combined making it even more difficult that trying to over-simplify things in favor of one or more factor is just going to miss the point. Access to greater amounts of the One Power make it easier to accomplish things, but there are multiple ways to achieve an effect.
Strong channelers who don't know how to actually Do things are like a power-lifter who doesn't quite know how to lift that heavy bar. Strength in the power, as defined in the book, is basically how much Saidar can you use? How much brute force do you have to back yourself up with?
I think in this case you are interchanging "strength" with "capability". Lots of the Aes Sedai we have seen are strong but are not very capable. Many that are not as strong are more capable. We have been spoiled by reading about some of the most accomplished Strong and Capable Aes Sedai (Egwene, Elayne, Nyn etc) and we forget how much less all the rest have to work with. Moiraine is a good example; she was very capable and competent, and she was also one of the strongest in the OP until all these young girls and damane started showing up. But you are right, they are not always one and the same. For White Tower politicking purposes, Strength means brute force. For the WoT series' purpose, and by your definition REAL strength comes from a balance between having the required force and knowledge necessary to accomplish a task.
Interesting clues to OP Strength difference between Nynaeve and Elayne/Egwene/Aviendha
31/05/2010 02:17:06 PM
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Re: Interesting clues to OP Strength difference between Nynaeve and Elayne/Egwene/Aviendha
31/05/2010 04:18:08 PM
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I don't know. Elayne knows how strong a woman needs to be in order to activate the Bowl.
31/05/2010 07:51:08 PM
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Egwene plus Aviendha roughly equal Lanfaer. And yet Lanfear isn't close to double Nynaeve's strength
31/05/2010 09:07:06 PM
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Egwene and Aviendha combined in TFoH (when Avi had been channeling for only a few months)
31/05/2010 09:22:17 PM
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We've done this so many times. Even I have lost the strength for it. What can I still muster...
31/05/2010 09:38:24 PM
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again with the interpretive quoting
31/05/2010 11:05:58 PM
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Individual interpretation is all we've got really
01/06/2010 06:32:05 PM
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agreed, sort of
04/06/2010 12:57:00 PM
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Consider this...
04/06/2010 01:21:43 PM
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You continue to translate things. That is NOT how the quote reads
04/06/2010 01:30:43 PM
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Not my fault if the books prove you wrong
04/06/2010 01:41:00 PM
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I'm denying that you have a clue
04/06/2010 01:51:14 PM
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Bonfire next to a candle. I rest my case.
04/06/2010 01:53:59 PM
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then Nynaeve is the Creator
04/06/2010 02:03:27 PM
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Estimating potential is exact, fragmentary historical notes are not. And RJ disproves your point..
04/06/2010 02:57:32 PM
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The books disagree with this
04/06/2010 03:24:46 PM
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Right, NOW we're getting somewhere...
04/06/2010 03:57:32 PM
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You are hilarious
04/06/2010 04:06:37 PM
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Close the door on your way out...
04/06/2010 04:21:11 PM
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no I just refuse to bother with a jackass who doesn't know the text well enough to debate *NM*
04/06/2010 10:35:09 PM
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Re: agreed, sort of
04/06/2010 04:46:59 PM
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this doesn't square in any way with Bell Curve though
04/06/2010 10:33:04 PM
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No, Rand was not stronger than the male Forsaken at the start of tSR...
01/06/2010 09:27:47 AM
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Aginor burned out attempting to use the Eye, which Rand managed to do without burning out *NM*
01/06/2010 12:06:01 PM
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The Eye was just a source of the Power - like a well, just bigger.
01/06/2010 12:17:29 PM
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nope
01/06/2010 12:52:46 PM
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Re: I don't know. Elayne knows how strong a woman needs to be in order to activate the Bowl.
01/06/2010 02:18:38 AM
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I'm not trying to say that Nynaeve isn't significantly stronger
01/06/2010 12:44:20 PM
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If 3 sisters can hold you, it probaly means you are as strong as 4 sisters...
01/06/2010 06:37:01 PM
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Re: I'm not trying to say that Nynaeve isn't significantly stronger
01/06/2010 06:43:08 PM
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Sidenote: What's with Elayne dumping people into the river?
31/05/2010 06:22:26 PM
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Not Elayne, Egwene in Cairhien. She went to meet the Windfinder and got kicked out. Wasn't awesome *NM*
31/05/2010 07:13:25 PM
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Re: Interesting clues to OP Strength difference between Nynaeve and Elayne/Egwene/Aviendha
31/05/2010 07:21:32 PM
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Re: Interesting clues to OP Strength difference between Nynaeve and Elayne/Egwene/Aviendha
31/05/2010 07:41:02 PM
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Re: Interesting clues to OP Strength difference between Nynaeve and Elayne/Egwene/Aviendha
01/06/2010 06:07:35 PM
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Re: Interesting clues to OP Strength difference between Nynaeve and Elayne/Egwene/Aviendha
01/06/2010 06:21:29 PM
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Remember gatways
31/05/2010 09:15:31 PM
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I agree that it's probably some kind of max height you can lift an object
31/05/2010 09:25:25 PM
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I think lifting people on flows of air is much like weaving bridges.
01/06/2010 07:42:59 AM
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I'm pretty convinced that 'strength' really refers to your skill and experience.
01/06/2010 08:35:16 PM
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Strength is a touchy word in this case...
03/06/2010 07:31:19 AM
- 577 Views