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RJ stated it was a murder of opportunity ... I never said "only" darius_sedai Send a noteboard - 02/06/2010 11:49:23 AM
.....nothing at all. He/she could have been surprised or planned to kill him all along. Either scenario is equally plausible.


which more than implies that the killer did NOT plan it.


It's reported that RJ "emphasized OPPORTUNITY as the key to knowing Asmodean's killer, even over motive". Plus, he answered the question: "What criteria are most helpful for investigating Asmodean's murder, out of motive, means, timing?", with: "Timing is what you should focus on." (apparently not so much motive or means). It becomes a bit clearer through RJ's statement that "Padan Fain didn't [kill Asmo] because he wasn't in the right place at the right time. He would have if he had been in the right place at the right time, but he wasn't.

Although people repeatedly claim it, RJ never stated that it was "only a murder of opportunity" in the sense that Asmo by chance bumped into his murderer, i.e. a completely unplanned confrontation. The criteria "timing" wouldn't even make real sense then. It's definitely plausible that the killer found Asmo in the Caemlyn palace some minutes before and then followed him to end his life at a secluded place. The killer was obviously better prepared to kill someone than Asmo was to defend himself, considering the quickness of Asmo's death.

The killer managed to be in the right place at the right time to kill Asmo due to the right timing. This speaks for the Top assassin Slayer, who we often see spying on people everywhere, who might have gotten the general order to kill Asmo, if he finds him (but might also be in Caemlyn to find Fain or because of dealings with Rahvin), who knows the Caemlyn palace best of all suspects, and who can use TAR to appear in the right place at the right time to perform his assassinations out of thin air (Asmo didn't already see his killer, when he opened the door). Naturally the motive only comes second for an assassin, because he usually kills someone because he just wants to fulfill his orders, not because he personally wants the victim dead. The means aren't that important (it doesn't have to be balefire, for example); also an able non-channeler could have killed Asmo in this situation.

Contrary to that, it's not clear at all why timing or opportunity would be the keys to speak for Graendal more than for any other Forsaken, e.g. Sammael. Besides that, a Forsaken would naturally have a stronger motive to kill the rival Asmo. Usually the means (namely the ability to channel) are also used to support that Graendal must have done it, though apparently this isn't that important.


so no it's not false
Domani Drag Queen in the White Tower ... Aran'gar watch out!
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An analysis of Asmodean's last seconds - 27/05/2010 12:12:50 PM 2512 Views
I hate to say it, as I love this mystery.... - 27/05/2010 03:01:08 PM 1250 Views
Surely, there can never be enough Asmo threads! *NM* - 27/05/2010 04:18:06 PM 693 Views
I have a theory on the killer that doesn't involve Slayer... - 28/05/2010 03:41:23 AM 1061 Views
It's not really obvious... - 28/05/2010 09:08:27 AM 991 Views
In addition to Etzel's comments - 28/05/2010 09:08:45 PM 904 Views
Far-fetched, IMO - 27/05/2010 04:01:05 PM 1361 Views
very well said *NM* - 27/05/2010 04:19:10 PM 712 Views
I don't want Slayer to be the killer - 27/05/2010 04:33:06 PM 1042 Views
The way you twist things, it certainly seems so! - 27/05/2010 05:07:22 PM 1131 Views
Bah, hogwash! - 27/05/2010 05:17:37 PM 1007 Views
Re: Bah, hogwash! - 27/05/2010 08:14:16 PM 1075 Views
The point is... - 28/05/2010 08:38:49 AM 1071 Views
Yes, but Fain is a far cry from your average non-channeler - 28/05/2010 12:01:44 PM 1124 Views
As is Slayer - 28/05/2010 12:25:07 PM 997 Views
There is no evidence of this at all - 28/05/2010 12:32:37 PM 978 Views
Yeah, the evil guys don't manage to harm the good guys - 28/05/2010 12:38:57 PM 941 Views
so far we've seen Slayer kill a sleeping guy and his wife - 28/05/2010 12:45:14 PM 956 Views
I disagree. *NM* - 28/05/2010 12:50:02 PM 1076 Views
You always twist the quotes to make them say what Jordan didn't intend to say.... - 28/05/2010 02:20:09 PM 1031 Views
I think this is your interpretation - 28/05/2010 02:50:14 PM 983 Views
Yeah right... - 27/05/2010 08:35:35 PM 1098 Views
See my replies above. *NM* - 28/05/2010 08:40:42 AM 881 Views
Re: Bah, hogwash! - 28/05/2010 08:28:16 AM 852 Views
See my repy to DomA. *NM* - 28/05/2010 08:39:15 AM 843 Views
None of this explains how Slayer had opportunity that others didn't - 27/05/2010 05:12:48 PM 1167 Views
We often see... - 27/05/2010 05:33:19 PM 1037 Views
I just keep coming back to Slayer needs wild explanations while Graendal is more obvious - 27/05/2010 05:52:13 PM 1125 Views
Ok, as we said in the other thread, let's RAFO! *NM* - 27/05/2010 05:57:49 PM 1129 Views
Agreed *NM* - 27/05/2010 06:03:51 PM 635 Views
Indeed - 28/05/2010 08:39:14 AM 973 Views
Well... - 28/05/2010 10:19:46 AM 1024 Views
Re: Well... - 28/05/2010 12:20:15 PM 1030 Views
I adressed the points regarding the Fain-comparsion above - 28/05/2010 12:35:08 PM 975 Views
your Slayer theory is ridiculously complex! - 28/05/2010 12:37:08 PM 1014 Views
It just requires to combine some clues from the first 5 books & some common sense - 28/05/2010 12:44:10 PM 966 Views
common sense? - 28/05/2010 12:51:25 PM 983 Views
See my posts above. *NM* - 28/05/2010 02:50:56 PM 1004 Views
Re: Well... - 28/05/2010 02:27:40 PM 1142 Views
No... - 28/05/2010 03:04:41 PM 1062 Views
let's try this another way - 28/05/2010 03:14:07 PM 1053 Views
The main problem with Graendal is... - 28/05/2010 05:31:09 PM 979 Views
Graendal has a pretty significant role in TFoH - 28/05/2010 06:54:39 PM 1009 Views
Re: The main problem with Graendal is... - 28/05/2010 09:20:27 PM 1116 Views
my first thought was it was Sammael or Graendal. Come LoC it was clear to me that it was Graendal. - 28/05/2010 09:44:38 PM 1147 Views
RJ used the expression... - 29/05/2010 08:17:08 AM 955 Views
be careful ... your stretching far enough you might hurt yourself - 29/05/2010 01:12:29 PM 1065 Views
Re: No... - 28/05/2010 03:38:49 PM 936 Views
Re: I don't want Slayer to be the killer - 27/05/2010 07:47:40 PM 995 Views
Couple of questions - 27/05/2010 09:53:05 PM 1020 Views
Be'lal managed to get out NO! - 27/05/2010 10:08:33 PM 886 Views
Hmmm - 27/05/2010 10:27:55 PM 1004 Views
Re: Hmmm - 27/05/2010 10:34:30 PM 903 Views
I don't think you can actually cut BF weaves - 27/05/2010 10:45:34 PM 908 Views
Hmmm I wonder about that. - 27/05/2010 10:58:46 PM 988 Views
I think it would be impossible for someone to react that quickly - 27/05/2010 11:13:01 PM 1069 Views
We've seen it done. - 28/05/2010 06:32:08 PM 926 Views
Not the same thing - 28/05/2010 07:00:13 PM 904 Views
Re: Couple of questions - 28/05/2010 03:29:29 PM 1068 Views
As said... - 28/05/2010 08:36:28 AM 1006 Views
Of course you do. Trying to deny it is just silly. Everyone knows your bias. *NM* - 27/05/2010 08:43:18 PM 530 Views
No, seriously, if actually Graendal did it, it's ok to me, too - 27/05/2010 09:08:48 PM 1027 Views
Re: No, seriously, if actually Graendal did it, it's ok to me, too - 28/05/2010 08:25:46 AM 1000 Views
But look... - 28/05/2010 09:01:12 AM 1035 Views
if there are clues in TFoH I find it hard to believe that Slayer is involved - 28/05/2010 12:29:40 PM 941 Views
The scene of Asmo's murder contains clues, of course - 28/05/2010 12:32:13 PM 990 Views
Re: The scene of Asmo's murder contains clues, of course - 28/05/2010 12:35:22 PM 1004 Views
RJ said the main clues are in the books before LoC. *NM* - 28/05/2010 12:40:23 PM 1062 Views
Re: RJ said the main clues are in the books before LoC. *NM* - 28/05/2010 12:52:30 PM 918 Views
Yeah, I know. *NM* - 28/05/2010 02:51:32 PM 984 Views
??? - 28/05/2010 02:19:17 PM 972 Views
Of course RJ implied that. You should read his quotes about Asmo! *NM* - 28/05/2010 02:52:32 PM 988 Views
Here is what RJ said EDIT - 28/05/2010 03:29:19 PM 775 Views
Indeed - 28/05/2010 05:18:35 PM 937 Views
Re: Indeed - 28/05/2010 05:26:38 PM 889 Views
LOL!! - 28/05/2010 03:29:35 PM 736 Views
Too much? - 28/05/2010 05:16:44 PM 1001 Views
Re: Far-fetched, IMO - 02/06/2010 07:34:58 PM 1107 Views
Sent by whom? And how on earth would he be expected to interrupt a Forsaken plot? *NM* - 02/06/2010 11:13:04 PM 649 Views
Re: Sent by whom? And how on earth would he be expected to interrupt a Forsaken plot? - 19/06/2010 12:59:54 AM 809 Views
Slayer takes orders from the Forsaken - 19/06/2010 03:30:37 AM 1018 Views
Re: Slayer takes orders from the Forsaken - 24/06/2010 09:03:18 AM 1214 Views
The orders to not kill Rand didn't happen until the next book - 26/06/2010 02:32:26 PM 716 Views
Re: The orders to not kill Rand didn't happen until the next book - 01/07/2010 10:13:53 PM 1158 Views
Re: An analysis of Asmodean's last seconds - 27/05/2010 06:19:18 PM 942 Views
Re: An analysis of Asmodean's last seconds - 27/05/2010 09:16:21 PM 956 Views
Lanfear killed Asmo..... - 28/05/2010 05:05:55 AM 916 Views
Doesn't make sense - 28/05/2010 11:09:14 AM 949 Views
Sorry, Lanfear did it..... - 29/05/2010 03:47:44 AM 889 Views
Death is Moridin "when death took him"; need I say more *NM* - 28/05/2010 10:07:14 AM 646 Views
There is a quote that refutes this... - 28/05/2010 10:22:12 AM 1001 Views
I think I found an RJ quote that kills the Slayer theory - 29/05/2010 01:57:20 PM 911 Views
If Slayer is actually the killer... - 29/05/2010 02:20:32 PM 975 Views
Please, RJ would do as he always had and immediately RAFOd a question like that - 29/05/2010 02:26:10 PM 935 Views
Well, I don't think so. - 29/05/2010 02:43:28 PM 950 Views
yet he never gave an answer like this one - 29/05/2010 02:57:35 PM 1033 Views
Again... - 29/05/2010 03:09:06 PM 1034 Views
Taking things NO - 29/05/2010 03:12:24 PM 1005 Views
RJ pretty much said it wasn't Slayer. - 06/06/2010 05:44:05 AM 837 Views
If Slayer never met Asmo in the books he could not have killed him - 06/06/2010 12:46:40 PM 840 Views
But Slayer could have met Asmo, when he was killed.. *NM* - 06/06/2010 01:06:01 PM 882 Views
Directly contradicts what RJ said "they did not meet in the books" - 06/06/2010 02:51:50 PM 850 Views
Not "before" the murder. *NM* - 06/06/2010 06:03:34 PM 923 Views
Re: Not "before" the murder. *NM* - 06/06/2010 10:25:16 PM 835 Views
He answers the question, if they met "before" the murder. *NM* - 07/06/2010 07:18:50 AM 642 Views
not if it didn't happen in the books - 07/06/2010 12:08:34 PM 774 Views
I'm relieved then... - 07/06/2010 12:13:58 PM 792 Views
it's nearly as simplistic as knowing Graendal did it - 07/06/2010 12:48:42 PM 933 Views
Compilation of the clues I could find on Slayer and Graendal - 29/05/2010 04:26:58 PM 1015 Views
I think Asmo's killer was as surprised as he. - 29/05/2010 09:26:03 PM 958 Views
That's what I've always thought as well. - 29/05/2010 10:06:56 PM 873 Views
That's always been my theory too - 29/05/2010 10:18:30 PM 987 Views
*nods* - 29/05/2010 11:23:18 PM 1004 Views
Re: That's always been my theory too - 30/05/2010 07:35:50 AM 928 Views
You know, there's no direct proof suggesting that Asmo's killer was "surprised"..... - 01/06/2010 04:04:56 AM 888 Views
That's why I said "I think" and offered my opinion. - 01/06/2010 09:46:09 PM 901 Views
except the Author said it was a murder of opportunity - 01/06/2010 11:13:14 PM 914 Views
That is simply false. - 02/06/2010 10:00:27 AM 954 Views
RJ stated it was a murder of opportunity ... I never said "only" - 02/06/2010 11:49:23 AM 1021 Views
Of course, it is false - 02/06/2010 12:13:11 PM 941 Views
Here are the quotes - 02/06/2010 12:39:29 PM 878 Views
As said, those quotes simply don't support that the murder was basically just an unplanned accident. *NM* - 02/06/2010 02:14:29 PM 646 Views
I disagree. It's pretty much black and white that the opportunity/timing is the key factor to - 02/06/2010 02:39:03 PM 801 Views
Actually I like it because it fits Slayer better than Graendal, as pointed out. *NM* - 02/06/2010 02:51:24 PM 486 Views
that makes no sense at all *NM* - 02/06/2010 02:53:28 PM 697 Views
RJ pretty much said it wasn't Slayer. - 06/06/2010 05:47:13 AM 974 Views
Well... - 06/06/2010 10:46:13 AM 966 Views
Logic - 06/06/2010 02:53:27 PM 914 Views
You're falling into Etzelian logic there... - 06/06/2010 03:25:30 PM 919 Views
I'm just being a smartass *NM* - 06/06/2010 03:36:00 PM 660 Views
It's good that Etzel sticks to his guns - 06/06/2010 04:42:01 PM 1029 Views
OMG, Taim and Mesaana were getting it on in the pantry - 06/06/2010 09:49:57 PM 889 Views
That reminds me... - 19/06/2010 04:46:58 AM 912 Views
That's not anyone's logic, this argument is simply utter nonsense. *NM* - 07/06/2010 12:08:05 PM 954 Views
just like thinking Slayer was the killer is - 07/06/2010 12:09:34 PM 897 Views
Yeah... - 07/06/2010 12:21:31 PM 966 Views
thinking the top assassin killed someone when it's been stated over and over - 07/06/2010 12:56:48 PM 954 Views
Those quotes pretty much show that Graendal is careful... *NM* - 07/06/2010 01:03:26 PM 881 Views
No they show that she is deliberate! - 07/06/2010 01:12:29 PM 980 Views
That are just semantics - 07/06/2010 01:36:12 PM 1048 Views
and you think it's obvious that Slayer was the premier Shadow assassin prior to WH? - 07/06/2010 02:06:47 PM 935 Views
As I explained you several times, I can see why RJ thought it is obvious, yes... - 07/06/2010 02:17:01 PM 904 Views
Why wouldn't Graendal head to Caemlyn at that point? - 07/06/2010 02:36:24 PM 989 Views
And where was she then, when Rand attacked Rahvin? - 07/06/2010 02:54:33 PM 1025 Views
Re: And where was she then, when Rand attacked Rahvin? - 07/06/2010 03:01:14 PM 990 Views
You should re-read the scene where Moghedien tells Nynaeve about it... - 07/06/2010 03:12:55 PM 957 Views
That's a different thing than Moghedien saying the plan was canceled - 07/06/2010 03:15:32 PM 1053 Views
That is essentially what Moghedien said. - 07/06/2010 03:33:35 PM 825 Views
um no it's not - 07/06/2010 04:17:04 PM 905 Views
It's told after that... - 07/06/2010 04:46:31 PM 875 Views
No it doesn't. It tells us that Rahvin, just like all the others had a side plan in place - 07/06/2010 04:55:43 PM 1056 Views
Yeah... - 07/06/2010 05:17:59 PM 955 Views
Funny I feel the same way you do ... - 07/06/2010 05:25:48 PM 945 Views
Ah, whatever... - 07/06/2010 05:35:22 PM 846 Views
We are on the exact same page - 07/06/2010 05:42:48 PM 925 Views
Re: We are on the exact same page - 07/06/2010 05:52:37 PM 1001 Views
LMAO - 07/06/2010 06:07:16 PM 1375 Views
I promised Etzel long ago... - 19/06/2010 04:49:11 AM 921 Views

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