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And all this happeened in the few days between the end of KoD and the beginning of tGS? fionwe1987 Send a noteboard - 07/09/2009 12:35:29 AM

It is consistent with everything she has seen, always taking the side of the Salidar faction, refusing to give him information they want kept secret, attempting to manipulate him against Salidar's enemies while plainly respecting those enemy sisters more than him, and suggesting they are on his side when his own experience reveals absolutely nothing of the kind. The Tower's betrayal of him might have been a more egregious violation, but the Salidar embassy has more offenses to their credit. They immediately took a woman who had violated and assaulted him into their confidence, belligerantly and unjustifiably confronted him in defiance of any reasonable expectations of an embassy to a ruler, and then ignored his requirements for contacting him again, while attempting to assert their dominance at Dumai's Wells. Even after swearing fealty to him, they showed more sympathy and loyalty to his captive tormentors, and attempted to take charge of his affairs while obeying him only with the greatest reluctance. And these are the people Egwene is not only loyal to, but has chosen to lead (and the reputation affects the leader more than the group - will Elayne & Egwene think better of the Children of the Light for being under Galad or will they think worse of him for taking command of them? ), suborning his most trusted general to her purpose (no one thinks Tenobia will be happy about her uncle & top general serving the Dragon Reborn, so why should anyone expect Rand to be sanguine about Mat serving the Aes Sedai? ), and inducing the sister he trusts above all others to encourage him to go to Egwene.

Whether or not we agree on the way these events must be viewed, Rand knew all this in his final PoV chapter in KoD as well. He touched upon the meeting between Jahar and the Rebels, yet did not indicate any regrets at having handed over 47 Asha'man to Egwene.

From there he has sent Narishma & Merise with his offer of bonding the Asha'man, and Egwene never even received them, leaving them for her flunkies to handle. How would Egwene take it if she sent a personal embassy to Rand, asking after him, and he never saw them, but left them to be heard by Mazrim Taim & the Illian Council of Nine? And of course, Narishma has reported that a sister from Egwene's followers has perfected a means of detecting male channelers, which is indicative of a great deal of effort in the matter - plainly this is a high priority for the rebels. Rand's offer was met with a good deal of interest as Romanda and Lelaine's dialogue plainly indicates the offer dovetails with an item on the rebel agenda, which they discuss using terms like "control" and speaking of meeting their purposes. Egwene's followers plainly have some specific intentions towards the Asha'man or male channelers in general, and things like detecting saidin, and controlling the men in question are involved. They show no particular friendship or interest, and react with fear or revulsion to Narishma. Does this look like the acts of a friendly group? But what about the last time any of Rand's followers had direct contact with Egwene? What happened then? Why Logain was threatened with murder or gentling in a discussion Egwene initiated regarding Rand's amnesty. She asked Logain's opinion and intimated that the rebel sisters, despite that amnesty and all that Logain had done for their cause, might ignore it, gentle him or even execute or murder him. Do you think he would have let Rand's proposal for the Asha'man to be bonded by Ewgene's followers without mentioning his own experiences at their hands? Not to mention his own story of what happened when he was restored to the Power hardly reflects well on their attitude toward male channelers. And Rand is not all that unreasonable in tarring Egwene with the same brush as her followers. Did she not do the same thing with Mat and the Dragonsworn in LoC?

Logain would have also mentioned that Egwene let him off after he assured her he wanted to go to the Black Tower, so I don't see how this incident could be of any significance, even if Logain did talk to Rand about his experiences in the Rebel camp.
As for what Merise and Jahar encountered, again, all this was true in his final PoV in KoD, and its not like he did not think of the issue then. All he said was that he couldn't be bothered to find a male equivalent to that weave. There wasn't even a trace of resentment against the Rebels, no sign of anger that Egwene was not present to receive his emissaries.

Given everything that has gone on, plus Rand always having his finger on the pulse of Egwene's ambitions, his comment about another notch on her belt is not out of the blue, and considering his final words to Egwene way back in Fal Dara included the expectation that she would probably want to gentle him when next they met, neither is this a totally new sentiment. Even now, he is probably exaggerating, but this is hardly a new extreme train of thought that blossommed out of nowhere in Rand. Right or wrong as his belief may be, it is not inconsistent or unsupported by his experiences and information. And if you don't know by now that people react to and act upon what they perceive to be reality and the truth, however mistakenly, you have made it through 11 books of WoT without ever realizing what it is about.

Did you read my post before you made this reply? Because I celarly stated that from Rand's PoV, he does have reasons to mistrust the Aes Sedai, and hence Egwene as their leader. Reiterating my own point as an argument against me is ridiculous.
As for the rest, another notch implies a prior notches, which are plainly absent. Whatever transgression you might attribute to the Rebel embassy, Rand had no clue at the time that Egwene was their Amyrlin. He knows for certain that they left with their orders way before Egwene even left Cairhein, and when he finds out she is the Rebel Amyrlin in WH, he is incredulous, but shows not a whiff of anger at her for becoming the leader of the Rebels, or for co-opting Mat's army to her own to pull down Elaida, who, it might interest you to know, Rand trusts not at all since the first book, and with far better reason.

My point is not that Rand cannot be exaggerating here. Nor that his mistrust of Egwene makes no sense. But the was he speaks, he clearly does distrust her as much as he says he does, and LTT associates her and her Aes Sedai with Latra Pose's clique. The whole theory rests on the suddenness of Rand's vehemence against Egwene, and that vehemence is clear to anyone who has actually had their eyes open while reading the books.
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Your thoughts on TGS - Chapter 1 - 05/09/2009 05:23:47 PM 5936 Views
For all of those whining about it not sounding like RJ: - 05/09/2009 05:47:07 PM 1858 Views
Agreed. If anything, it's a tribute to RJ - 05/09/2009 06:17:36 PM 1667 Views
You're forgetting one thing. - 06/09/2009 12:13:03 AM 1812 Views
And if he were to off Egwene? What would your opinion be? *NM* - 07/09/2009 05:38:36 AM 898 Views
He dislikes Sanderson's prose. Plot content is irrelevant here. *NM* - 08/09/2009 06:44:42 PM 996 Views
Who cares? That would have been RJs decision anyway. - 09/09/2009 06:15:16 AM 1434 Views
not impressed - 05/09/2009 06:24:02 PM 1802 Views
all recap, no meat - 14/09/2009 12:33:35 PM 1438 Views
Pretty good. - 05/09/2009 07:35:41 PM 45243 Views
Re: Pretty good. - 05/09/2009 09:13:44 PM 1724 Views
Re: Pretty good. - 06/09/2009 01:19:22 AM 2025 Views
Re: Pretty good. - 06/09/2009 08:08:38 AM 1658 Views
Re: Pretty good. - 13/09/2009 01:22:22 PM 1396 Views
I found it well-written, but rather uninteresting story-wise *NM* - 05/09/2009 08:04:15 PM 997 Views
because there should totaly be massive plot development in the first chapter - 05/09/2009 08:29:18 PM 1546 Views
I'm tired of passive story telling. - 05/09/2009 08:57:13 PM 1501 Views
On the other hand... - 05/09/2009 08:58:21 PM 1580 Views
Re: I'm tired of passive story telling. - 05/09/2009 10:42:57 PM 1444 Views
Which escape? - 05/09/2009 11:10:01 PM 1473 Views
I'm tired of mindless readers - 06/09/2009 01:54:14 AM 1592 Views
Re: I'm tired of mindless readers - 06/09/2009 04:01:56 AM 1738 Views
Your best yet Dom! *NM* - 06/09/2009 02:04:40 PM 935 Views
Re: I'm tired of mindless readers - 07/09/2009 04:39:36 AM 1458 Views
Re: I'm tired of mindless readers - 07/09/2009 10:42:29 PM 1446 Views
I was over critical. - 06/09/2009 04:56:48 AM 1382 Views
It's been happening since Book IV btw. - 16/09/2009 05:30:52 PM 1248 Views
A few things that drew my attention... (this is long and rambling...spoilers) - 05/09/2009 09:34:44 PM 1631 Views
I think Lews Therin's comments to Rand were the most hugely significant part of the chapter. - 06/09/2009 01:15:05 AM 1412 Views
I don't really agree... - 06/09/2009 03:50:08 AM 1395 Views
Re: A few things that drew my attention... (this is long and rambling...spoilers) - 06/09/2009 02:52:47 AM 2054 Views
Re: A few things that drew my attention... (this is long and rambling...spoilers) - 06/09/2009 07:08:08 AM 1374 Views
Just answer one question... - 06/09/2009 07:53:12 AM 1857 Views
Re: A few things that drew my attention... (this is long and rambling...spoilers) - 06/09/2009 10:31:20 AM 1811 Views
Re: A few things that drew my attention... (this is long and rambling...spoilers) - 08/09/2009 10:19:13 PM 1319 Views
If I may make a few somewhat irrelevant interjections... - 09/09/2009 04:44:45 AM 1337 Views
Re: If I may make a few somewhat irrelevant interjections... - 14/09/2009 04:46:29 PM 1489 Views
Re: A few things that drew my attention... (this is long and rambling...spoilers) - 10/09/2009 06:20:56 AM 1562 Views
On Egwene... - 10/09/2009 04:33:58 PM 1383 Views
Nynaeve - 08/09/2009 05:43:43 AM 1470 Views
Re: Nynaeve - 08/09/2009 08:06:20 AM 1339 Views
Re: A few things that drew my attention... (this is long and rambling...spoilers) - 07/09/2009 04:41:47 AM 1489 Views
Answers, short, long and longer. - 07/09/2009 11:27:53 PM 1399 Views
I think you missed some things. (spoilers) - 16/09/2009 05:21:43 PM 1181 Views
People who still have their wotmania SNs draw mine.... - 21/09/2009 05:25:15 PM 1243 Views
Good post, but I have an alternative explanation for the saidin barrier - 28/09/2009 12:53:41 AM 1236 Views
First thought...a typo! ner vous = nervous. *NM* - 05/09/2009 09:55:28 PM 934 Views
I loved it! - 05/09/2009 10:52:17 PM 1490 Views
I didn't like the opening sequence. - 05/09/2009 10:58:17 PM 1498 Views
Robert Jordon vs Brandon Sanderson - 06/09/2009 12:02:13 AM 1443 Views
Re: Robert Jordon vs Brandon Sanderson - 06/09/2009 12:44:11 AM 1501 Views
Re: Robert Jordon vs Brandon Sanderson - 07/09/2009 09:08:21 AM 1409 Views
This is what RJ said. - 06/09/2009 12:47:26 AM 1426 Views
Re: This is what RJ said. - 06/09/2009 01:24:36 AM 1420 Views
Re: Robert Jordon vs Brandon Sanderson - 06/09/2009 05:12:25 PM 1297 Views
Re: Robert Jordon vs Brandon Sanderson - 06/09/2009 07:20:45 PM 1296 Views
Re: Robert Jordon vs Brandon Sanderson - 07/09/2009 04:05:09 AM 1321 Views
Re: Robert Jordon vs Brandon Sanderson - 07/09/2009 09:33:25 AM 1325 Views
I found it...interesting --spoilers-- - 06/09/2009 01:33:11 AM 1626 Views
Re: I found it...interesting --spoilers-- - 06/09/2009 01:42:07 AM 1488 Views
Re: I found it...interesting --spoilers-- - 06/09/2009 02:54:17 PM 1519 Views
I'm excited. (Here be spoilers) - 06/09/2009 03:29:59 AM 1385 Views
six questions and nine statements - 06/09/2009 04:47:52 AM 1455 Views
Re: Your thoughts on TGS - Chapter 1 - 06/09/2009 04:51:04 AM 1404 Views
Re: Your thoughts on TGS - Chapter 1 - 06/09/2009 07:30:53 AM 1502 Views
I liked it - 06/09/2009 07:58:09 AM 1408 Views
Some questions... - 06/09/2009 08:04:30 AM 1438 Views
Re: Some questions... - 06/09/2009 08:11:08 AM 1488 Views
Re: Some questions... - 06/09/2009 08:53:20 AM 1411 Views
Re: I liked it - 06/09/2009 09:55:41 PM 1413 Views
Theory: Rand and Egwene. What is up? - 06/09/2009 07:59:58 AM 2302 Views
Also - 06/09/2009 08:24:45 AM 1449 Views
A simpler answer - 06/09/2009 03:04:04 PM 1496 Views
Really? - 06/09/2009 03:38:59 PM 1359 Views
Look at what he has seen... - 06/09/2009 11:45:44 PM 1301 Views
And all this happeened in the few days between the end of KoD and the beginning of tGS? - 07/09/2009 12:35:29 AM 1350 Views
are we already at the location of the book cover? - 06/09/2009 11:49:06 AM 1384 Views
Re: are we already at the location of the book cover? - 06/09/2009 02:43:24 PM 1395 Views
I still think it's Aviendha - 07/09/2009 05:14:50 AM 1229 Views
Omniscient narrator not neutral enough, for one... - 06/09/2009 04:17:51 PM 1547 Views
Yip - 06/09/2009 04:29:40 PM 1489 Views
Yes... - 06/09/2009 04:39:00 PM 1354 Views
I totally agree...the narration was the biggest put-off for me - 09/09/2009 09:51:52 PM 1274 Views
Two Things - 07/09/2009 12:25:31 AM 1464 Views
Moiraine - 07/09/2009 01:19:08 AM 1534 Views
The Moiraine thing is dumb - 09/09/2009 09:53:51 PM 1401 Views
She fell through the doorway with Lanfear - 09/09/2009 10:18:55 PM 1344 Views
uh - 09/09/2009 10:57:17 PM 1380 Views
Timeline? - 07/09/2009 05:10:16 AM 1377 Views
Re: Timeline? - 07/09/2009 05:52:50 PM 1373 Views
So what chapter symbol is it going to have? *NM* - 07/09/2009 08:09:54 AM 849 Views
the dragon in COT chap 23 ornaments *NM* - 07/09/2009 01:28:58 PM 859 Views
The Seanchan are up to something - 07/09/2009 10:26:23 AM 1373 Views
Red stone doorway. - 07/09/2009 03:27:22 PM 1307 Views
The whole thing was explained by Rand in KoD. So no, not new. - 07/09/2009 06:35:01 PM 1308 Views
No - 07/09/2009 07:57:57 PM 1327 Views
Questions, Comments Thoughts and Theories about tGS - 07/09/2009 09:09:05 PM 1420 Views
My thoughts are that the main page is being crowded by too many duplicate threads - 07/09/2009 10:23:41 PM 1391 Views
Hrm... - 08/09/2009 05:28:19 AM 1443 Views
Enjoyed it - 08/09/2009 01:35:03 AM 1374 Views
Ready for More - 08/09/2009 04:25:19 PM 1432 Views
... - 08/09/2009 07:24:46 PM 1356 Views
Not sure what I expected, but not this... - 09/09/2009 04:07:10 PM 1425 Views
I know why Rand is mad at Egwene...read inside to find out - 11/09/2009 03:15:00 AM 1362 Views
It's his increasing paranoia and dehumanization. - 15/09/2009 03:03:53 AM 1363 Views
Re: Your thoughts on TGS - Chapter 1 - 16/09/2009 06:20:14 AM 1185 Views
Semirhage isn't scaring anyone - 28/09/2009 02:32:34 PM 1692 Views
Indeed... - 28/09/2009 03:36:55 PM 1309 Views
Will the Chosen pass that edict down or just not act themselves? - 28/09/2009 10:29:53 PM 1266 Views

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