TFoH
The Threads Burn
"Why will you not understand what I tell you? Even if they had only dreamed themselves here, either would be stronger than we. Here in the flesh, they could crush us without blinking. In the flesh they can draw saidin more deeply than we can draw saidar dreaming."
"We are linked." Still not paying attention, Nynaeve gave her braid a sharp pull. No way to tell which direction they had gone. And no warning of anything until she saw them. Somehow it still seemed unfair that they could channel without her being able to see or feel the flows. A stand-lamp that had been sliced in two was suddenly whole again, then not, just as quickly. That white fire must be incredibly powerful. Tel'aran'rhiod usually healed itself rapidly whatever you did to it.
"You brainless fool," Moghedien sobbed, shaking Nynaeve's skirt with both hands as if wanting to shake Nynaeve. "It does not matter how brave you are. We are linked, but you contribute nothing the way you are. Not a shred. It is my strength, and your madness. They are here in the flesh, not dreaming! They are using things you have never dreamed of! They will destroy us if we stay!"
It's not all about strength... unquestionably the men are stronger. But it's compounded because the women are 1. There in dream state and thus even more disadvantaged in strength (as you'll note Moghedien points out). 2. Nynaeve is vastly less skilled than Rhavin, who "is using things you have never dreamed of" ... of course Nyna would get her ass handed to her in a direct confrontation!
As for Elayne and Egwene being "more advanced" ... again, Rand is already stronger than most Forsaken men at this point in the book since he went toe to toe with Aginor and Ishamael even earlier ... clearly he has gain much more of his ultimate strength by this point than either of these women!
I agree that Rand is probably 2x (or thereabouts) stronger than Egwene/Elayne, but we also know from RJ that "there are several levels of Male strength above female strength" ... which means Lanfear may be 70-75% of Rand, but is effectively equal to him. Whereas Elayne would be closer to 50-60% of his raw strength (thus more like 80% of Lanfear.
The Threads Burn
"Why will you not understand what I tell you? Even if they had only dreamed themselves here, either would be stronger than we. Here in the flesh, they could crush us without blinking. In the flesh they can draw saidin more deeply than we can draw saidar dreaming."
"We are linked." Still not paying attention, Nynaeve gave her braid a sharp pull. No way to tell which direction they had gone. And no warning of anything until she saw them. Somehow it still seemed unfair that they could channel without her being able to see or feel the flows. A stand-lamp that had been sliced in two was suddenly whole again, then not, just as quickly. That white fire must be incredibly powerful. Tel'aran'rhiod usually healed itself rapidly whatever you did to it.
"You brainless fool," Moghedien sobbed, shaking Nynaeve's skirt with both hands as if wanting to shake Nynaeve. "It does not matter how brave you are. We are linked, but you contribute nothing the way you are. Not a shred. It is my strength, and your madness. They are here in the flesh, not dreaming! They are using things you have never dreamed of! They will destroy us if we stay!"
It's not all about strength... unquestionably the men are stronger. But it's compounded because the women are 1. There in dream state and thus even more disadvantaged in strength (as you'll note Moghedien points out). 2. Nynaeve is vastly less skilled than Rhavin, who "is using things you have never dreamed of" ... of course Nyna would get her ass handed to her in a direct confrontation!
As for Elayne and Egwene being "more advanced" ... again, Rand is already stronger than most Forsaken men at this point in the book since he went toe to toe with Aginor and Ishamael even earlier ... clearly he has gain much more of his ultimate strength by this point than either of these women!
I agree that Rand is probably 2x (or thereabouts) stronger than Egwene/Elayne, but we also know from RJ that "there are several levels of Male strength above female strength" ... which means Lanfear may be 70-75% of Rand, but is effectively equal to him. Whereas Elayne would be closer to 50-60% of his raw strength (thus more like 80% of Lanfear.
Domani Drag Queen in the White Tower ... Aran'gar watch out!
This message last edited by darius_sedai on 31/05/2010 at 11:29:00 PM
Interesting clues to OP Strength difference between Nynaeve and Elayne/Egwene/Aviendha
31/05/2010 02:17:06 PM
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Re: Interesting clues to OP Strength difference between Nynaeve and Elayne/Egwene/Aviendha
31/05/2010 04:18:08 PM
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I don't know. Elayne knows how strong a woman needs to be in order to activate the Bowl.
31/05/2010 07:51:08 PM
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Egwene plus Aviendha roughly equal Lanfaer. And yet Lanfear isn't close to double Nynaeve's strength
31/05/2010 09:07:06 PM
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Egwene and Aviendha combined in TFoH (when Avi had been channeling for only a few months)
31/05/2010 09:22:17 PM
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We've done this so many times. Even I have lost the strength for it. What can I still muster...
31/05/2010 09:38:24 PM
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again with the interpretive quoting
31/05/2010 11:05:58 PM
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Individual interpretation is all we've got really
01/06/2010 06:32:05 PM
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agreed, sort of
04/06/2010 12:57:00 PM
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Consider this...
04/06/2010 01:21:43 PM
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You continue to translate things. That is NOT how the quote reads
04/06/2010 01:30:43 PM
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Not my fault if the books prove you wrong
04/06/2010 01:41:00 PM
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I'm denying that you have a clue
04/06/2010 01:51:14 PM
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Bonfire next to a candle. I rest my case.
04/06/2010 01:53:59 PM
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then Nynaeve is the Creator
04/06/2010 02:03:27 PM
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Estimating potential is exact, fragmentary historical notes are not. And RJ disproves your point..
04/06/2010 02:57:32 PM
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The books disagree with this
04/06/2010 03:24:46 PM
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Right, NOW we're getting somewhere...
04/06/2010 03:57:32 PM
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You are hilarious
04/06/2010 04:06:37 PM
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Close the door on your way out...
04/06/2010 04:21:11 PM
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no I just refuse to bother with a jackass who doesn't know the text well enough to debate *NM*
04/06/2010 10:35:09 PM
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Re: agreed, sort of
04/06/2010 04:46:59 PM
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this doesn't square in any way with Bell Curve though
04/06/2010 10:33:04 PM
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No, Rand was not stronger than the male Forsaken at the start of tSR...
01/06/2010 09:27:47 AM
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Aginor burned out attempting to use the Eye, which Rand managed to do without burning out *NM*
01/06/2010 12:06:01 PM
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The Eye was just a source of the Power - like a well, just bigger.
01/06/2010 12:17:29 PM
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nope
01/06/2010 12:52:46 PM
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Re: I don't know. Elayne knows how strong a woman needs to be in order to activate the Bowl.
01/06/2010 02:18:38 AM
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I'm not trying to say that Nynaeve isn't significantly stronger
01/06/2010 12:44:20 PM
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If 3 sisters can hold you, it probaly means you are as strong as 4 sisters...
01/06/2010 06:37:01 PM
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Re: I'm not trying to say that Nynaeve isn't significantly stronger
01/06/2010 06:43:08 PM
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Sidenote: What's with Elayne dumping people into the river?
31/05/2010 06:22:26 PM
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Not Elayne, Egwene in Cairhien. She went to meet the Windfinder and got kicked out. Wasn't awesome *NM*
31/05/2010 07:13:25 PM
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Re: Interesting clues to OP Strength difference between Nynaeve and Elayne/Egwene/Aviendha
31/05/2010 07:21:32 PM
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Re: Interesting clues to OP Strength difference between Nynaeve and Elayne/Egwene/Aviendha
31/05/2010 07:41:02 PM
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Re: Interesting clues to OP Strength difference between Nynaeve and Elayne/Egwene/Aviendha
01/06/2010 06:07:35 PM
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Re: Interesting clues to OP Strength difference between Nynaeve and Elayne/Egwene/Aviendha
01/06/2010 06:21:29 PM
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Remember gatways
31/05/2010 09:15:31 PM
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I agree that it's probably some kind of max height you can lift an object
31/05/2010 09:25:25 PM
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I think lifting people on flows of air is much like weaving bridges.
01/06/2010 07:42:59 AM
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I'm pretty convinced that 'strength' really refers to your skill and experience.
01/06/2010 08:35:16 PM
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Strength is a touchy word in this case...
03/06/2010 07:31:19 AM
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