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Compilation of the clues I could find on Slayer and Graendal darius_sedai Send a noteboard - 29/05/2010 04:26:58 PM
Okay I went through the first 7 books looking for any information that might lead us to the killer ... obviously nothing definitive here, but thought it was worthwhile on a dull Saturday morning...

EoTW clues:

Slayer
Isam and Luc’s childhood stories told briefly

Graendal
Hints that the Forsaken are loose but no mention

TGH

Slayer
Shadow Prophesy alluding to Isam and Luc merging into 1 being

Graendal
More hints about the Forsaken being free but nothing specific

TDR

Slayer
No mention

Graendal
No mention

TSR

Slayer
First mention of the name Slayer
We learn from the Wolves that he can enter TAR in the Flesh (by unknown means), and that he kills wolves forever when there
We learn that Lord Luc and Isam are both in the TR and learn that they are one and the same, or at least can infer from the various big hints
We know that the Myrddraal fear being found by Isam
We learn/see that at least Lord Luc is great fighter, he's been killing Myrddraal all over the TR
We learn that Fain thinks Isam is a "problem for another time"

Graendal
First onscreen mention
We learn she takes “trophies”

Misc
We learn Balefire can destroy the Forsaken
We learn that the Forsaken are not all a united front, and that even amongst the BA there are different orders being given

TFoH

Slayer
No Mention, probably off convalescing from his wounds given by Perrin in TSR

Graendal
First on screen appearance
We learn about her Slaves (Power and Beauty and the heavy use of Compulsion)
We learn that she finds it odd that the Forsaken aren’t actively trying to kill each other
We learn she thinks she is above mere humans
Graendal is aggressive enough to challenge Lanfear in front of other Forsaken and would likely use Balefire in such a fight
We learned that she had carved out a power base and would protect it rather than sitting around plotting against Rand
We learn that Asmodean knew she was in Arad Domon
We learn she pokes around in TAR, spying on the other Forsaken
We know she is aware that Asmodean is teaching Rand and that she is part of the plot to kill/control Rand that Lanfear, Sammael and Rhavin are all part of as well

LoC

Slayer
No mention

Graendal
We learn she remains in cahoots with Sammael and is giving him information on the other FS
We learn that she tends to hide things in plain sight
We learn she already knows of Lanfear and Rahvin’s deaths, and assumes Moghedien and Asmodean are also dead at Rands hands
We learn that Sammael did NOT know that Asmodean was dead
We learn that Graendal is willing to go to great lengths (go to Sharra and steal the rulers) to achieve even small goals
We learn that she hates being threatened in anyway
We learn she is frightened of Rand and will go to great lengths to avoid his detection
We learn that she was a master of mindgames and also some sort of Psychiatrist in the AoL

Misc

The DO already also knew of Asmo’s death


PoD
We learn Graendal looted Sammaels rooms in Ilian
Domani Drag Queen in the White Tower ... Aran'gar watch out!
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An analysis of Asmodean's last seconds Etzel - 27/05/2010 12:12:50 PM 2510 Views
I hate to say it, as I love this mystery.... GateKeeper - 27/05/2010 03:01:08 PM 1249 Views
Surely, there can never be enough Asmo threads! *NM* Etzel - 27/05/2010 04:18:06 PM 693 Views
I have a theory on the killer that doesn't involve Slayer... FanEditor10 - 28/05/2010 03:41:23 AM 1059 Views
It's not really obvious... Etzel - 28/05/2010 09:08:27 AM 989 Views
In addition to Etzel's comments newyorkersedai - 28/05/2010 09:08:45 PM 902 Views
I'm pretty sure the Myrdraal that killed Caradin's family was a Proto-version of SH *NM* darius_sedai - 28/05/2010 09:56:58 PM 623 Views
Smacking & ordering Carridin, yes - but no evidence it killed his kin *NM* newyorkersedai - 29/05/2010 04:40:15 PM 577 Views
Re: Smacking & ordering Carridin, yes - but no evidence it killed his kin darius_sedai - 29/05/2010 09:16:01 PM 1047 Views
Far-fetched, IMO DomA - 27/05/2010 04:01:05 PM 1360 Views
very well said *NM* darius_sedai - 27/05/2010 04:19:10 PM 712 Views
I don't want Slayer to be the killer Etzel - 27/05/2010 04:33:06 PM 1042 Views
The way you twist things, it certainly seems so! fionwe1987 - 27/05/2010 05:07:22 PM 1129 Views
Bah, hogwash! Etzel - 27/05/2010 05:17:37 PM 1005 Views
Re: Bah, hogwash! DomA - 27/05/2010 08:14:16 PM 1073 Views
The point is... Etzel - 28/05/2010 08:38:49 AM 1071 Views
Yes, but Fain is a far cry from your average non-channeler darius_sedai - 28/05/2010 12:01:44 PM 1122 Views
As is Slayer Etzel - 28/05/2010 12:25:07 PM 995 Views
There is no evidence of this at all darius_sedai - 28/05/2010 12:32:37 PM 976 Views
Yeah, the evil guys don't manage to harm the good guys Etzel - 28/05/2010 12:38:57 PM 940 Views
so far we've seen Slayer kill a sleeping guy and his wife darius_sedai - 28/05/2010 12:45:14 PM 956 Views
I disagree. *NM* Etzel - 28/05/2010 12:50:02 PM 1075 Views
You always twist the quotes to make them say what Jordan didn't intend to say.... DomA - 28/05/2010 02:20:09 PM 1029 Views
I think this is your interpretation Etzel - 28/05/2010 02:50:14 PM 983 Views
Yeah right... fionwe1987 - 27/05/2010 08:35:35 PM 1096 Views
See my replies above. *NM* Etzel - 28/05/2010 08:40:42 AM 881 Views
Re: Bah, hogwash! Sidious - 28/05/2010 08:28:16 AM 850 Views
See my repy to DomA. *NM* Etzel - 28/05/2010 08:39:15 AM 841 Views
None of this explains how Slayer had opportunity that others didn't darius_sedai - 27/05/2010 05:12:48 PM 1165 Views
We often see... Etzel - 27/05/2010 05:33:19 PM 1037 Views
I just keep coming back to Slayer needs wild explanations while Graendal is more obvious darius_sedai - 27/05/2010 05:52:13 PM 1123 Views
Ok, as we said in the other thread, let's RAFO! *NM* Etzel - 27/05/2010 05:57:49 PM 1127 Views
Agreed *NM* darius_sedai - 27/05/2010 06:03:51 PM 635 Views
Indeed Sidious - 28/05/2010 08:39:14 AM 972 Views
Well... Etzel - 28/05/2010 10:19:46 AM 1023 Views
Re: Well... darius_sedai - 28/05/2010 12:20:15 PM 1028 Views
I adressed the points regarding the Fain-comparsion above Etzel - 28/05/2010 12:35:08 PM 973 Views
your Slayer theory is ridiculously complex! darius_sedai - 28/05/2010 12:37:08 PM 1013 Views
It just requires to combine some clues from the first 5 books & some common sense Etzel - 28/05/2010 12:44:10 PM 964 Views
common sense? darius_sedai - 28/05/2010 12:51:25 PM 981 Views
See my posts above. *NM* Etzel - 28/05/2010 02:50:56 PM 1004 Views
Re: Well... Sidious - 28/05/2010 02:27:40 PM 1140 Views
No... Etzel - 28/05/2010 03:04:41 PM 1060 Views
let's try this another way darius_sedai - 28/05/2010 03:14:07 PM 1051 Views
The main problem with Graendal is... Etzel - 28/05/2010 05:31:09 PM 977 Views
Graendal has a pretty significant role in TFoH darius_sedai - 28/05/2010 06:54:39 PM 1009 Views
Re: The main problem with Graendal is... DomA - 28/05/2010 09:20:27 PM 1114 Views
my first thought was it was Sammael or Graendal. Come LoC it was clear to me that it was Graendal. darius_sedai - 28/05/2010 09:44:38 PM 1146 Views
RJ used the expression... Etzel - 29/05/2010 08:17:08 AM 955 Views
be careful ... your stretching far enough you might hurt yourself darius_sedai - 29/05/2010 01:12:29 PM 1065 Views
Re: No... Sidious - 28/05/2010 03:38:49 PM 934 Views
Re: I don't want Slayer to be the killer DomA - 27/05/2010 07:47:40 PM 995 Views
Couple of questions scalius - 27/05/2010 09:53:05 PM 1020 Views
Be'lal managed to get out NO! darius_sedai - 27/05/2010 10:08:33 PM 885 Views
Hmmm scalius - 27/05/2010 10:27:55 PM 1004 Views
Re: Hmmm RugbyPlayingAshaman - 27/05/2010 10:34:30 PM 903 Views
I don't think you can actually cut BF weaves darius_sedai - 27/05/2010 10:45:34 PM 906 Views
Hmmm I wonder about that. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 27/05/2010 10:58:46 PM 986 Views
I think it would be impossible for someone to react that quickly darius_sedai - 27/05/2010 11:13:01 PM 1067 Views
We've seen it done. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 28/05/2010 06:32:08 PM 925 Views
Not the same thing darius_sedai - 28/05/2010 07:00:13 PM 903 Views
Re: Couple of questions DomA - 28/05/2010 03:29:29 PM 1067 Views
As said... Etzel - 28/05/2010 08:36:28 AM 1004 Views
Of course you do. Trying to deny it is just silly. Everyone knows your bias. *NM* Tom - 27/05/2010 08:43:18 PM 530 Views
No, seriously, if actually Graendal did it, it's ok to me, too Etzel - 27/05/2010 09:08:48 PM 1025 Views
Re: No, seriously, if actually Graendal did it, it's ok to me, too Sidious - 28/05/2010 08:25:46 AM 998 Views
But look... Etzel - 28/05/2010 09:01:12 AM 1033 Views
if there are clues in TFoH I find it hard to believe that Slayer is involved darius_sedai - 28/05/2010 12:29:40 PM 941 Views
The scene of Asmo's murder contains clues, of course Etzel - 28/05/2010 12:32:13 PM 988 Views
Re: The scene of Asmo's murder contains clues, of course darius_sedai - 28/05/2010 12:35:22 PM 1004 Views
RJ said the main clues are in the books before LoC. *NM* Etzel - 28/05/2010 12:40:23 PM 1060 Views
Re: RJ said the main clues are in the books before LoC. *NM* darius_sedai - 28/05/2010 12:52:30 PM 917 Views
Yeah, I know. *NM* Etzel - 28/05/2010 02:51:32 PM 982 Views
Yet Slayer is no where to be seen between his vanishing after TSR and the start of WH darius_sedai - 28/05/2010 03:09:44 PM 1003 Views
??? Sidious - 28/05/2010 02:19:17 PM 970 Views
Of course RJ implied that. You should read his quotes about Asmo! *NM* Etzel - 28/05/2010 02:52:32 PM 986 Views
Here is what RJ said EDIT darius_sedai - 28/05/2010 03:29:19 PM 774 Views
Indeed Etzel - 28/05/2010 05:18:35 PM 935 Views
Re: Indeed darius_sedai - 28/05/2010 05:26:38 PM 887 Views
But he was already introduced to us before the murder, and that is all that matters. *NM* Etzel - 28/05/2010 05:33:02 PM 943 Views
Re: But he was already introduced to us before the murder, and that is all that matters. *NM* darius_sedai - 28/05/2010 07:05:27 PM 899 Views
LOL!! Sidious - 28/05/2010 03:29:35 PM 736 Views
Too much? Etzel - 28/05/2010 05:16:44 PM 999 Views
Re: Far-fetched, IMO saidarisnowtainted - 02/06/2010 07:34:58 PM 1105 Views
Sent by whom? And how on earth would he be expected to interrupt a Forsaken plot? *NM* darius_sedai - 02/06/2010 11:13:04 PM 649 Views
Re: Sent by whom? And how on earth would he be expected to interrupt a Forsaken plot? saidarisnowtainted - 19/06/2010 12:59:54 AM 808 Views
Slayer takes orders from the Forsaken darius_sedai - 19/06/2010 03:30:37 AM 1017 Views
Re: Slayer takes orders from the Forsaken saidarisnowtainted - 24/06/2010 09:03:18 AM 1212 Views
The orders to not kill Rand didn't happen until the next book darius_sedai - 26/06/2010 02:32:26 PM 715 Views
Re: The orders to not kill Rand didn't happen until the next book saidarisnowtainted - 01/07/2010 10:13:53 PM 1158 Views
Re: An analysis of Asmodean's last seconds RugbyPlayingAshaman - 27/05/2010 06:19:18 PM 940 Views
Re: An analysis of Asmodean's last seconds DomA - 27/05/2010 09:16:21 PM 954 Views
Lanfear killed Asmo..... trzaska2000 - 28/05/2010 05:05:55 AM 914 Views
Doesn't make sense Etzel - 28/05/2010 11:09:14 AM 948 Views
Sorry, Lanfear did it..... trzaska2000 - 29/05/2010 03:47:44 AM 888 Views
Considering that RJ didn't even necessarily want to reveal it, it was pretty random, yeah. *NM* Etzel - 29/05/2010 08:25:54 AM 594 Views
Death is Moridin "when death took him"; need I say more *NM* Knightscape - 28/05/2010 10:07:14 AM 646 Views
There is a quote that refutes this... Etzel - 28/05/2010 10:22:12 AM 1000 Views
He could have recognized Moridan.....due to the True Power in his eyes. trzaska2000 - 29/05/2010 03:49:49 AM 938 Views
No other Forsaken immediately recognizes Moridin as Ishy because of the saa. *NM* Etzel - 29/05/2010 08:26:44 AM 599 Views
RJ failed, Etzel's analysis is sharp, and I'm gonna abandon the Asmo question forever newyorkersedai - 28/05/2010 08:55:01 PM 1019 Views
Re: RJ failed, Etzel's analysis is sharp, and I'm gonna abandon the Asmo question forever *NM* newyorkersedai - 28/05/2010 09:24:41 PM 692 Views
I think I found an RJ quote that kills the Slayer theory darius_sedai - 29/05/2010 01:57:20 PM 911 Views
If Slayer is actually the killer... Etzel - 29/05/2010 02:20:32 PM 974 Views
Please, RJ would do as he always had and immediately RAFOd a question like that darius_sedai - 29/05/2010 02:26:10 PM 933 Views
Well, I don't think so. Etzel - 29/05/2010 02:43:28 PM 948 Views
yet he never gave an answer like this one darius_sedai - 29/05/2010 02:57:35 PM 1033 Views
Again... Etzel - 29/05/2010 03:09:06 PM 1033 Views
Taking things NO darius_sedai - 29/05/2010 03:12:24 PM 1003 Views
RJ pretty much said it wasn't Slayer. FanEditor10 - 06/06/2010 05:44:05 AM 836 Views
If Slayer never met Asmo in the books he could not have killed him darius_sedai - 06/06/2010 12:46:40 PM 838 Views
But Slayer could have met Asmo, when he was killed.. *NM* Etzel - 06/06/2010 01:06:01 PM 880 Views
Directly contradicts what RJ said "they did not meet in the books" darius_sedai - 06/06/2010 02:51:50 PM 849 Views
Not "before" the murder. *NM* Etzel - 06/06/2010 06:03:34 PM 921 Views
Re: Not "before" the murder. *NM* darius_sedai - 06/06/2010 10:25:16 PM 834 Views
He answers the question, if they met "before" the murder. *NM* Etzel - 07/06/2010 07:18:50 AM 642 Views
not if it didn't happen in the books darius_sedai - 07/06/2010 12:08:34 PM 772 Views
I'm relieved then... Etzel - 07/06/2010 12:13:58 PM 792 Views
it's nearly as simplistic as knowing Graendal did it darius_sedai - 07/06/2010 12:48:42 PM 932 Views
Compilation of the clues I could find on Slayer and Graendal darius_sedai - 29/05/2010 04:26:58 PM 1014 Views
I think Asmo's killer was as surprised as he. TaskmasterJack - 29/05/2010 09:26:03 PM 957 Views
That's what I've always thought as well. Seriana Sedai - 29/05/2010 10:06:56 PM 871 Views
That's always been my theory too Sidious - 29/05/2010 10:18:30 PM 987 Views
*nods* darius_sedai - 29/05/2010 11:23:18 PM 1004 Views
Re: That's always been my theory too Seriana Sedai - 30/05/2010 07:35:50 AM 927 Views
You know, there's no direct proof suggesting that Asmo's killer was "surprised"..... trzaska2000 - 01/06/2010 04:04:56 AM 886 Views
That's why I said "I think" and offered my opinion. TaskmasterJack - 01/06/2010 09:46:09 PM 899 Views
except the Author said it was a murder of opportunity darius_sedai - 01/06/2010 11:13:14 PM 913 Views
That is simply false. Etzel - 02/06/2010 10:00:27 AM 952 Views
RJ stated it was a murder of opportunity ... I never said "only" darius_sedai - 02/06/2010 11:49:23 AM 1020 Views
Of course, it is false Etzel - 02/06/2010 12:13:11 PM 941 Views
Here are the quotes darius_sedai - 02/06/2010 12:39:29 PM 877 Views
As said, those quotes simply don't support that the murder was basically just an unplanned accident. *NM* Etzel - 02/06/2010 02:14:29 PM 646 Views
I disagree. It's pretty much black and white that the opportunity/timing is the key factor to darius_sedai - 02/06/2010 02:39:03 PM 800 Views
Actually I like it because it fits Slayer better than Graendal, as pointed out. *NM* Etzel - 02/06/2010 02:51:24 PM 486 Views
that makes no sense at all *NM* darius_sedai - 02/06/2010 02:53:28 PM 697 Views
RJ pretty much said it wasn't Slayer. FanEditor10 - 06/06/2010 05:47:13 AM 974 Views
Well... Etzel - 06/06/2010 10:46:13 AM 964 Views
Logic darius_sedai - 06/06/2010 02:53:27 PM 913 Views
You're falling into Etzelian logic there... DomA - 06/06/2010 03:25:30 PM 917 Views
I'm just being a smartass *NM* darius_sedai - 06/06/2010 03:36:00 PM 660 Views
It's good that Etzel sticks to his guns Sidious - 06/06/2010 04:42:01 PM 1027 Views
OMG, Taim and Mesaana were getting it on in the pantry darius_sedai - 06/06/2010 09:49:57 PM 888 Views
That reminds me... Fanatic-Templar - 19/06/2010 04:46:58 AM 910 Views
That's not anyone's logic, this argument is simply utter nonsense. *NM* Etzel - 07/06/2010 12:08:05 PM 953 Views
just like thinking Slayer was the killer is darius_sedai - 07/06/2010 12:09:34 PM 896 Views
Yeah... Etzel - 07/06/2010 12:21:31 PM 965 Views
thinking the top assassin killed someone when it's been stated over and over darius_sedai - 07/06/2010 12:56:48 PM 952 Views
Those quotes pretty much show that Graendal is careful... *NM* Etzel - 07/06/2010 01:03:26 PM 881 Views
No they show that she is deliberate! darius_sedai - 07/06/2010 01:12:29 PM 980 Views
That are just semantics Etzel - 07/06/2010 01:36:12 PM 1047 Views
and you think it's obvious that Slayer was the premier Shadow assassin prior to WH? darius_sedai - 07/06/2010 02:06:47 PM 933 Views
As I explained you several times, I can see why RJ thought it is obvious, yes... Etzel - 07/06/2010 02:17:01 PM 903 Views
Why wouldn't Graendal head to Caemlyn at that point? darius_sedai - 07/06/2010 02:36:24 PM 987 Views
And where was she then, when Rand attacked Rahvin? Etzel - 07/06/2010 02:54:33 PM 1023 Views
Re: And where was she then, when Rand attacked Rahvin? darius_sedai - 07/06/2010 03:01:14 PM 988 Views
You should re-read the scene where Moghedien tells Nynaeve about it... Etzel - 07/06/2010 03:12:55 PM 956 Views
That's a different thing than Moghedien saying the plan was canceled darius_sedai - 07/06/2010 03:15:32 PM 1051 Views
That is essentially what Moghedien said. Etzel - 07/06/2010 03:33:35 PM 824 Views
um no it's not darius_sedai - 07/06/2010 04:17:04 PM 904 Views
It's told after that... Etzel - 07/06/2010 04:46:31 PM 873 Views
No it doesn't. It tells us that Rahvin, just like all the others had a side plan in place darius_sedai - 07/06/2010 04:55:43 PM 1055 Views
Yeah... Etzel - 07/06/2010 05:17:59 PM 953 Views
Funny I feel the same way you do ... darius_sedai - 07/06/2010 05:25:48 PM 945 Views
Ah, whatever... Etzel - 07/06/2010 05:35:22 PM 846 Views
We are on the exact same page darius_sedai - 07/06/2010 05:42:48 PM 924 Views
Re: We are on the exact same page Sidious - 07/06/2010 05:52:37 PM 999 Views
LMAO darius_sedai - 07/06/2010 06:07:16 PM 1374 Views
I promised Etzel long ago... Fanatic-Templar - 19/06/2010 04:49:11 AM 920 Views
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