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Re: A few points Etzel Send a noteboard - 26/05/2010 05:55:27 PM
On the other hand, Graendal used a MoM when she visits the Shaido or in her own palace. Asmo and possibly Rand might even recognize her (as Asmo did, if this theory is correct). Assume e.g. if by chance Asmo was accompanied by Rand, Graendal would be toast. It's unlikely that she would risk this, just for inspecting the ground floor of the palace.

with the Shaido she was simply part of Sammael's plan and in her own palace she had an elaborate ruse of being an old sick lady to keep people away. Very specific reasons to use the MoM.


Still, with minimum effort Graendal could have excluded the risk of being identified by Asmo or Rand, when she walks through the palace, simply by using a standard MoM-weave and appear as an old servant, for example.

One can't compare this with the Cleansing, since Graendal came there anyway to kill all opponents she would meet. Plus, one could argue that Graendal became more confident with her angreal.

But then Graendal could also use somewhat stronger balefire, without someone noticing it, which would again be the sole reason then to prevent the DO from transmigrating Asmo.

Agreed, but that doesn't mean she didn't invert it.


As said, this argument is linked to the idea that very little balefire was used.

Besides that this Illian visit happened a few books after Asmo's murder, Graendal did this because she definitely knew about Sammael's impressive stuff.

Asmo also wasn't killed in Rahvin's quarters, but in the ground floor of the palace. There was no sensible reason for Graendal to be there.

It speaks to her habits though, she's the only FS we know that has ever appeared to look for what another FS may have left behind. It's possible that Graendal entered the Palace on the ground floor in a secluded spot and by pure chance Asmo happened in on her ... Rand being ta'veren does make wild coincidence occur. It's far more unlikely that she would have simply jumped into Rahvin's rooms knowing that's the most likely spot for Rand to be!


But if Rand is there, it makes more sense to wait a few days and then go to the Caemlyn palace.

One has to explain the how and where-factor as the reasons why - according to RJ - the DO couldn't bring Asmo back, even if he wanted.

Is there a quote somewhere saying that the DO could not bring him back? IIRC it's only stated that Rahvin was beyond him and later RJ made a comment about Sammael being consumed by Mashadar put him outside of the DOs ability to return. Asmodean was just called weak.

The only quote I'm familiar with here is

LOC

Prologue

"Rahvin is dead, Great Lord. Yesterday." There was pain. Euphoria too strong became pain quickly. His arms and legs twitched. He was sweating, now. "Lanfear has vanished without a trace, just as Asmodean did. And Graendal says Moghedien failed to meet her as they had agreed. Also yesterday, Great Lord. I do not believe in coincidence."

THE CHOSEN DWINDLE, DEMANDRED. THE WEAK FALL AWAY. WHO BETRAYS ME SHALL DIE THE FINAL DEATH. ASMODEAN, TWISTED BY HIS WEAKNESS. RAHVIN DEAD IN HIS PRIDE. HE SERVED WELL, YET EVEN I CANNOT SAVE HIM FROM BALEFIRE. EVEN I CANNOT STEP OUTSIDE OF TIME. For an instant terrible anger filled that awful voice, and – could it be frustration? An instant only. DONE BY MY ANCIENT ENEMY, THE ONE CALLED DRAGON. WOULD YOU UNLEASH THE BALEFIRE IN MY SERVICE, DEMANDRED?


Yes, as DomA already said.

Here is the Q&A:
WSB: Since you said at an earlier signing that the Dark One couldn't have brought back Asmodean if he wanted, was that at the time of Asmodean's death, or after that?
RJ: The Dark One couldn't bring back Asmodean because of the combination of 2 factors: HOW HE DIED and WHERE HE DIED. Not one or the other, both factors.
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I am determined to prove, before it's revealed, that Lanfear killed Asmodean. Tom - 26/05/2010 05:36:59 AM 1138 Views
It's unlikely Etzel - 26/05/2010 09:17:06 AM 816 Views
Re: It's unlikely DomA - 26/05/2010 02:04:08 PM 776 Views
Well... Etzel - 26/05/2010 03:09:38 PM 769 Views
A few points darius_sedai - 26/05/2010 03:50:12 PM 554 Views
Re: A few points Etzel - 26/05/2010 04:07:15 PM 631 Views
Re: A few points darius_sedai - 26/05/2010 04:23:39 PM 629 Views
Re: A few points DomA - 26/05/2010 05:26:27 PM 610 Views
Actually I believe... Etzel - 26/05/2010 06:00:55 PM 677 Views
Re: Actually I believe... darius_sedai - 26/05/2010 07:04:51 PM 670 Views
I think... Etzel - 26/05/2010 07:35:16 PM 601 Views
Re: I think... darius_sedai - 26/05/2010 07:47:19 PM 547 Views
IMO, the difference is that Ishy was strongly connected to the DO, when he died in TAR. *NM* Etzel - 26/05/2010 07:55:47 PM 292 Views
Re: IMO, the difference is that Ishy was strongly connected to the DO, when he died in TAR. darius_sedai - 26/05/2010 08:25:36 PM 568 Views
But Ishy channeled the TP; thus the DO was more aware of him in TAR. *NM* Etzel - 26/05/2010 08:33:45 PM 264 Views
I don't see how that really makes a difference darius_sedai - 26/05/2010 08:43:58 PM 582 Views
At least Asmo didn't channel the TP, when he died; this could be the difference to Ishy. *NM* Etzel - 26/05/2010 08:46:44 PM 267 Views
Re: At least Asmo didn't channel the TP, when he died; this could be the difference to Ishy. darius_sedai - 26/05/2010 09:23:10 PM 550 Views
Well, the TP is not related to who killed Asmo, in my view Etzel - 26/05/2010 09:34:42 PM 604 Views
That doesn't make sense darius_sedai - 26/05/2010 09:40:10 PM 574 Views
That has nothing to do with the identity of the killer. Etzel - 26/05/2010 09:56:18 PM 525 Views
I still think you are making this more convluted than it needs to be darius_sedai - 26/05/2010 10:21:26 PM 593 Views
You confuse two things... Etzel - 27/05/2010 09:46:56 AM 505 Views
But your theory completely relies on this thought darius_sedai - 27/05/2010 11:48:48 AM 516 Views
I argue... Etzel - 27/05/2010 12:20:09 PM 694 Views
we don't know any of that until WH darius_sedai - 27/05/2010 12:49:53 PM 665 Views
I cite your statement a few posts above... Etzel - 27/05/2010 12:59:06 PM 567 Views
Re: I cite your statement a few posts above... darius_sedai - 27/05/2010 01:14:51 PM 585 Views
Thanks! darius_sedai - 26/05/2010 07:12:01 PM 553 Views
Re: A few points Etzel - 26/05/2010 05:55:27 PM 626 Views
I think you are grasping a little darius_sedai - 26/05/2010 07:11:36 PM 612 Views
Re: Well... DomA - 26/05/2010 04:15:42 PM 646 Views
I know... Etzel - 26/05/2010 07:54:03 PM 615 Views
Re: I know... DomA - 26/05/2010 11:58:13 PM 484 Views
Re: I know... Etzel - 27/05/2010 09:41:20 AM 660 Views
Your explanation how the "where" is significant matches what I've been saying for awhile, too. *NM* TaskmasterJack - 29/05/2010 09:49:02 PM 298 Views
graendal Foxhead - 26/05/2010 11:57:04 PM 538 Views
You disregard Jordan's explanations about the Finns... and some others... DomA - 26/05/2010 12:50:30 PM 714 Views
I'm 80% sure it's Graendal, with 20% left over for Moghedien RugbyPlayingAshaman - 26/05/2010 02:00:09 PM 595 Views
Moghedien would be quite the trick darius_sedai - 26/05/2010 02:17:57 PM 567 Views
Re: Moghedien would be quite the trick RugbyPlayingAshaman - 26/05/2010 02:26:23 PM 588 Views
Re: Moghedien would be quite the trick DomA - 26/05/2010 03:06:49 PM 599 Views
Yep. More impressive than the guy who was killed by a shepherd, right? =) RugbyPlayingAshaman - 27/05/2010 03:44:07 PM 550 Views
Re: I'm 80% sure it's Graendal, with 20% left over for Moghedien DomA - 26/05/2010 02:24:44 PM 657 Views
Maybe she did it, but you misjudge Lanfear bigtime, I think newyorkersedai - 26/05/2010 07:12:09 PM 610 Views
Aviendha(sp) done it *NM* aldapelan - 26/05/2010 09:20:11 PM 301 Views
I agree Camilla - 30/05/2010 09:44:57 PM 757 Views
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