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You disregard Jordan's explanations about the Finns... and some others... DomA Send a noteboard - 26/05/2010 12:50:30 PM
Jordan mentionned limits to the powers of the Finns. They can't grant you anything you'd want, they have no special powers over the Pattern or the world men inhabits, for instance. They're not godlike creatures. They want their payment, so they'll cheat to meet your bargain if you ask for something silly (he also implied they like to cheat, period). Jordan mentionned for example that if you asked to be made King of the world (which they can't grant), they might dump you in an empty world where you would de facto be King.

So, the Finns could not magically know where Asmodean was at a any given time, send Lanfear with a sling attached and get her back magically....

Cyndane is formal: she has been held by the Finns - both races. She was a prisoner that day, not wandering around to kill Asmodean. And Lanfear eventually died, there or after a rescue.

Jordan also implied that the Finns hate the Shadow, and naming the DO there could have terrible consequences, much worse than in the world of men. Moiraine could have been the one condemning Lanfear to death, by telling the Finns who she was and who she served...

Then there's inner logic.... the Finns aren't compelled to make bargains. Do you think they were happy that Moiraine and Lanfear came crashing in their realm, destroying the doorway through which they had these visitors, very naive and easy to cheat visitors recently? Lanfear and Moiraine virtually put an end to the Foxes's possibility to trade, all they have left is Ghenjei, much harder to enter, and pretty lost to men's memory. Why should the Foxes offer a bargain to these women who destroyed the doorway? Cyndane said she was held, and Moiraine in her letter implies she is being held. All the clues say the two women were punished for the doorway incident, not offered a bargain (though in Moiraine's case, I highly suspect the Finns are holding her as a bait for Mat, about Mat the two races have been working together all along, the Snakes sending him right to the Foxes).

Then there's your logic about Asmodean and Lanfear, which is quite flawed. Lanfear wasn't defeated by Rand. She lost that day because she lost her self control and didn't think things through. She attacked Rand totally unprepared, out of rage, and she made the mistake to make it last, because before she punished and killed Rand, she wanted to spill all her venom, and make him suffer as she dealt with Aviendha. Finally, blinded by her anger, she didn't see Moiraine coming at her, and that's how she fell. She didn't kill Rand right away, because she didn't want to kill Rand right away. She was holding him off while spilling her venom, and it was all he could do to survive even then.

Asmodean didn't teach Rand especially well. He hold off all he could hold off, to make his value to Rand last. And he didn't really showed Rand how to fight. Just think of deathgates, arrows of fire etc. - all the stuff that would have made Rand really dangerous, that Asmodean held off.

Lanfear wasn't surprised by Rand, his power or what Asmodean taught him. She hardly saw Asmodean as an ally either. She has betrayed him and she fully expected Asmodean to turn on her if he could. She knew only his fear of her wrath and dying held him from turning Rand against her. In her arrogance about her power of seduction, she didn't think Asmodean could anyway.


The main reason she would be furious against Asmodean would be if she suspected he knew about Aviendha or was in any way involved/facilitated it, because he knew this was her main weakness. There's no clue she might have thought that, and she probably questionned Kadere whether Natael was involved or not (he wasn't).

The two persons Lanfear hated with a burning passion that day were Rand and Aviendha, and she would have solid reasons to add Moiraine to that list after the doorway incident. And as Cyndane, she's far from having forgotten that Rand chose another woman. It's the leash Moridin has on her that keeps her from going and killing Rand at the first opportunity. That she would make her target Asmodean instead of Rand and Aviendha is totally misinterpreting Lanfear and her obsessions.

The other thing you have overlooked is that Jordan once described Asmodean's murder as a murder of opportunity, a "road kill". The murderer didn't create an opportunity... that's a premeditated murder or an assassination.

Lanfear didn't have the means to kill Asmodean that day, and he wouldn't have been her top priority. She would most likely have hunted him down and killed him at some point (because he knew she was a traitor, and letting him live was a useless risk after he's served his purpose), but only after she's dealt with Rand and Aviendha.

Finally, where are your clues that the killer was Lanfear in the books right after TFOH?
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I am determined to prove, before it's revealed, that Lanfear killed Asmodean. - 26/05/2010 05:36:59 AM 1140 Views
It's unlikely - 26/05/2010 09:17:06 AM 818 Views
Re: It's unlikely - 26/05/2010 02:04:08 PM 776 Views
Well... - 26/05/2010 03:09:38 PM 771 Views
A few points - 26/05/2010 03:50:12 PM 555 Views
Re: A few points - 26/05/2010 04:07:15 PM 633 Views
Re: A few points - 26/05/2010 04:23:39 PM 631 Views
Re: A few points - 26/05/2010 05:26:27 PM 612 Views
Actually I believe... - 26/05/2010 06:00:55 PM 677 Views
Re: Actually I believe... - 26/05/2010 07:04:51 PM 670 Views
I think... - 26/05/2010 07:35:16 PM 603 Views
Re: I think... - 26/05/2010 07:47:19 PM 549 Views
IMO, the difference is that Ishy was strongly connected to the DO, when he died in TAR. *NM* - 26/05/2010 07:55:47 PM 292 Views
Re: IMO, the difference is that Ishy was strongly connected to the DO, when he died in TAR. - 26/05/2010 08:25:36 PM 568 Views
But Ishy channeled the TP; thus the DO was more aware of him in TAR. *NM* - 26/05/2010 08:33:45 PM 264 Views
I don't see how that really makes a difference - 26/05/2010 08:43:58 PM 583 Views
At least Asmo didn't channel the TP, when he died; this could be the difference to Ishy. *NM* - 26/05/2010 08:46:44 PM 267 Views
Re: At least Asmo didn't channel the TP, when he died; this could be the difference to Ishy. - 26/05/2010 09:23:10 PM 552 Views
Well, the TP is not related to who killed Asmo, in my view - 26/05/2010 09:34:42 PM 606 Views
That doesn't make sense - 26/05/2010 09:40:10 PM 576 Views
That has nothing to do with the identity of the killer. - 26/05/2010 09:56:18 PM 526 Views
I still think you are making this more convluted than it needs to be - 26/05/2010 10:21:26 PM 595 Views
You confuse two things... - 27/05/2010 09:46:56 AM 506 Views
But your theory completely relies on this thought - 27/05/2010 11:48:48 AM 517 Views
I argue... - 27/05/2010 12:20:09 PM 695 Views
we don't know any of that until WH - 27/05/2010 12:49:53 PM 665 Views
I cite your statement a few posts above... - 27/05/2010 12:59:06 PM 569 Views
Re: I cite your statement a few posts above... - 27/05/2010 01:14:51 PM 585 Views
Thanks! - 26/05/2010 07:12:01 PM 553 Views
Re: A few points - 26/05/2010 05:55:27 PM 627 Views
I think you are grasping a little - 26/05/2010 07:11:36 PM 614 Views
Re: Well... - 26/05/2010 04:15:42 PM 646 Views
I know... - 26/05/2010 07:54:03 PM 617 Views
Re: I know... - 26/05/2010 11:58:13 PM 486 Views
Re: I know... - 27/05/2010 09:41:20 AM 662 Views
graendal - 26/05/2010 11:57:04 PM 539 Views
You disregard Jordan's explanations about the Finns... and some others... - 26/05/2010 12:50:30 PM 716 Views
I'm 80% sure it's Graendal, with 20% left over for Moghedien - 26/05/2010 02:00:09 PM 596 Views
Moghedien would be quite the trick - 26/05/2010 02:17:57 PM 567 Views
Re: Moghedien would be quite the trick - 26/05/2010 02:26:23 PM 589 Views
Re: Moghedien would be quite the trick - 26/05/2010 03:06:49 PM 601 Views
Yep. More impressive than the guy who was killed by a shepherd, right? =) - 27/05/2010 03:44:07 PM 551 Views
Maybe she did it, but you misjudge Lanfear bigtime, I think - 26/05/2010 07:12:09 PM 611 Views
Aviendha(sp) done it *NM* - 26/05/2010 09:20:11 PM 301 Views
I agree - 30/05/2010 09:44:57 PM 757 Views

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