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Re: So, you're not kidding. Sidious Send a noteboard - 18/05/2010 10:25:19 PM
You truly are somehow oblivious to the entire point of one of the largest subplots in the entire series.

I don't know how to respond to that. I really don't.

Reread the entire Tower plot and check the number of references to politicking for control of either Halls, useless hierarchical crap like Shemerin's demotion, the outrage over stuff like Elaida disbanding the Blue Ajah, and contrast it to actually important stuff.

The entire purpose of the Tower split was that Aes Sedai cared more about their own squabbling than the end of the world. The three important points mentioned - Tarmon Gai'don, the Seanchan and the Black Tower are perfect examples that I am right!

Tarmon Gai'don: The division of the Tower has allowed Rand, the Dragon Reborn, to operate without always having to deal with Aes Sedai trying to control him. Because they are too busy squabbling over their position in the Aes Sedai hierarchy. You claim that Aes Sedai don't care about squabbling (because apparently you consider accusations of systemic support of world-breaking abominations, mass murderers and international criminals to be 'squabbling';) because Tarmon Gai'don is a greater priority, but the series actively proves you wrong. The Tower has been ignoring The Dragon and the Shadow because of their priority on squabbling! Heck, this is exactly why Aran'gar and Mesaana were working to maintain the split!

The Seanchan: Again, read The Gathering Storm. You will be surprised to find that in that book, the Tower is attacked by the Seanchan, and they are completely unprepared for it, because, guess what? They were dealing with more important things to them, namely infighting.
The Black Tower: The Rebels do absolutely nothing about the Black Tower, and Elaida sends one disastrous mission to pacify it. Aside from that, you have Tsutama Rath operating in secret to try to deal with the Black Tower because she considers it a greater priority than Tower squabbling. This would be great for your point, except that the reason she has to use secrecy in this is exactly because her priorities were not shared by the rest of the Tower!

Frankly, that you think that squabbling was not a priority for Aes Sedai is staggering. And that you apparently think that accusations of supporting False Dragons is 'squabbling' is also ridiculous. And that you insist that the Red Ajah doesn't care about this demonstrates disappointing wilful ignorance. I hate quoting Cannoli, but read the damn books, this is pretty explicitly refuted in The Extra Bit.


Stop being hysterical and debate like an adult.

The rebellion against Elaida was not due to the lie, it was merely a falsehood Siuan later created and expanded upon to further her own cause to bring down her rival, and to gain the dubious support of the rebel Hall. You've encapsulated the entire White Tower split under this, which is blatantly untrue. Do you think you're dealing with unintelligent people, or do you seriously think I'm less aware of the series than you are?

We're talking about the present. You're going back to the earlier books and referring to those as part of your evidence of 'squabbling'. The split occured in book 4, and the attack on the Black Tower a few books later. The later books show the opinion of the Red Ajah on this - they find the lie scandalous but they're more concerned with the Black Tower (not invasion - but bonding) and the Dragon Reborn. Pevara and Tsutama openly speak about this.

I don't know why you've gone off on such a childish tangent about everything. You mentioned that it's about time the Reds mentioned the lie i.e. now that the Tower is reunified. I mentioned that the Reds are much more worried about other events that are taking place. Bringing up what happened six books ago makes no sense, and acting like I'm unfamiliar with the plot is extremely insulting.
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Character discussion 2 : Siuan Sanche and Leane Sharif - 09/05/2010 06:01:33 PM 5022 Views
The "Shrinking of Siuan" after stilling destroyed my initial awe for the Amyrlin positition... - 09/05/2010 07:07:09 PM 1049 Views
yeah, but then again ... - 09/05/2010 09:05:36 PM 843 Views
That's total nonsense... - 10/05/2010 08:34:08 AM 1098 Views
No, THAT's total nonsense... - 10/05/2010 09:27:41 AM 970 Views
He raised other issues too - 10/05/2010 11:04:52 AM 964 Views
You seem to deal in bad analogies... - 10/05/2010 05:14:47 PM 971 Views
You've got an irritating manner about you. No wonder you find Aes Sedai so believable. - 10/05/2010 05:53:00 PM 827 Views
Hello Pot. I'm Kettle. - 10/05/2010 06:41:58 PM 839 Views
Hello Kettle. I'm Frying pan *NM* - 11/05/2010 03:43:20 PM 480 Views
Hello Frying pan. I'm Skillet. *NM* - 12/05/2010 11:50:33 PM 494 Views
I usually agree about his manner, but he's right here. - 12/05/2010 04:24:28 AM 922 Views
Re: No, THAT's total nonsense... - 19/05/2010 04:39:07 PM 877 Views
I think you're looking at it the wrong way. - 12/05/2010 06:32:00 AM 877 Views
Both wonderful characters... - 10/05/2010 12:49:44 AM 804 Views
They deserved to be deposed and stilled, I think ... - 10/05/2010 02:47:35 PM 1009 Views
"They"? - 10/05/2010 05:16:54 PM 907 Views
Good point ... - 10/05/2010 06:45:52 PM 1039 Views
Re: Good point ... - 10/05/2010 06:49:19 PM 929 Views
Re: Good point ... - 11/05/2010 03:43:43 PM 1092 Views
Leanne was not an Overseer - 17/05/2010 02:40:45 AM 924 Views
Re: "They"? - 11/05/2010 02:53:23 PM 963 Views
And she was eventually brought in on the secrets as well... - 12/05/2010 04:38:52 AM 915 Views
I don't know if I agree with this - 11/05/2010 03:19:20 PM 972 Views
The thing is ... - 11/05/2010 09:06:15 PM 886 Views
I get what you are saying, but the quote is from much earlier - 14/05/2010 03:14:17 PM 715 Views
I totally unagree... - 17/05/2010 11:16:50 AM 1114 Views
I like Leane, and respected Siuan until RJ mauled her character - 10/05/2010 05:55:08 PM 861 Views
She was probably the sacrificial lamb in place of Moiraine - 10/05/2010 06:25:39 PM 817 Views
The deck was certainly stacked against Siuan from the very beginning - 11/05/2010 02:44:05 PM 865 Views
This is a main reason I hope Siuan and Leanne get their full strength restored - 11/05/2010 02:25:31 PM 924 Views
I don't really agree - 11/05/2010 05:35:44 PM 850 Views
Re: I don't really agree - 11/05/2010 06:28:48 PM 924 Views
I hope so, as well. - 13/05/2010 05:31:36 PM 869 Views
Re: Character discussion 2 : Siuan Sanche and Leane Sharif - 11/05/2010 05:06:51 PM 1034 Views
I'm still annoyed that Siuan is not going to face the consequences of lying about the Reds. - 12/05/2010 05:18:47 AM 907 Views
In Egwene's defense, it would be hypocritical of her to bring that up after profiting from it - 12/05/2010 05:59:57 AM 881 Views
Oh, I never expected Egwene to do something about this. - 12/05/2010 06:12:35 AM 783 Views
Well she's off forging a relationship with the Asha'man - you know, useful stuff? *NM* - 12/05/2010 06:39:04 AM 540 Views
Are you claiming that Pevara was the only woman in the entire Red Ajah to be offended by that lie? *NM* - 12/05/2010 07:15:40 AM 482 Views
The Reds aren't petty - 12/05/2010 04:52:50 PM 759 Views
Are you kidding? - 12/05/2010 06:14:46 PM 880 Views
Unless of course there is truth to it - 17/05/2010 01:50:27 PM 886 Views
There is none. - 17/05/2010 07:09:59 PM 880 Views
Uhhh? - 17/05/2010 08:45:15 PM 791 Views
... - 17/05/2010 11:08:05 PM 932 Views
Re: ... - 18/05/2010 05:25:33 AM 865 Views
Seriously, are you kidding? [EDIT] - 18/05/2010 06:06:01 AM 849 Views
*sigh* - 18/05/2010 12:30:43 PM 906 Views
So, you're not kidding. - 18/05/2010 09:12:27 PM 812 Views
Re: So, you're not kidding. - 18/05/2010 10:25:19 PM 849 Views
Re: So, you're not kidding. - 19/05/2010 12:41:09 AM 943 Views
So, Tsutama... - 19/05/2010 05:29:56 PM 991 Views
Ugh. - 20/05/2010 04:05:43 AM 754 Views
WTF? - 20/05/2010 05:25:42 PM 819 Views
F-T is right - 19/05/2010 12:32:33 AM 918 Views
On the minority thing... - 18/05/2010 04:26:15 PM 883 Views
That's exactly the problem. - 18/05/2010 08:51:45 PM 750 Views
There is no rewriting... - 18/05/2010 08:57:50 PM 748 Views
Re: There is no rewriting... - 18/05/2010 09:21:31 PM 852 Views
Really do you have a quote supporting the fact that there has never been a FD supported by a Red? - 18/05/2010 09:39:31 PM 885 Views
Of course..., I'll provide it as soon as you prove you're not a Nazi serial child rapist. - 18/05/2010 10:06:23 PM 719 Views
why so pissy? - 19/05/2010 03:34:22 PM 879 Views
Sorry. - 20/05/2010 04:16:43 AM 843 Views
Re: Sorry. - 20/05/2010 08:19:13 AM 709 Views
Re: Sorry. - 20/05/2010 08:33:54 AM 910 Views
Re: Sorry. - 20/05/2010 01:26:47 PM 753 Views
Interesting. - 20/05/2010 07:34:45 PM 808 Views
Re: Interesting. - 21/05/2010 05:07:07 AM 830 Views
Re: Interesting. - 21/05/2010 06:28:05 AM 766 Views
LOL - 21/05/2010 02:50:29 PM 782 Views
... - 21/05/2010 08:23:08 PM 968 Views
There may be one explanation... - 13/05/2010 10:04:46 PM 795 Views
That doesn't make sense. - 13/05/2010 10:54:53 PM 922 Views
it was about more than just male channelers - 18/05/2010 09:50:14 PM 911 Views
Yes, that's true. - 18/05/2010 10:07:22 PM 927 Views
I'm also certain the majority of the Red had no clue/involvement - 20/05/2010 10:24:54 PM 826 Views
That's also true. - 20/05/2010 10:29:11 PM 814 Views
Okay I'm leaving you alone ... you clearly don't want to continue - 20/05/2010 10:31:01 PM 812 Views
Why are they lumped together? - 12/05/2010 05:53:51 AM 1070 Views
for practical purposes - 12/05/2010 04:50:48 PM 782 Views
AS shrunk after stilling; Siuan and Leane became huge. - 12/05/2010 10:50:50 PM 813 Views
Re: AS shrunk after stilling; Siuan and Leane became huge. - 12/05/2010 11:05:17 PM 932 Views
No, I don't think so - 13/05/2010 05:10:03 AM 751 Views
Let's just say we disagree. - 17/05/2010 11:15:31 PM 901 Views
Bah! - 18/05/2010 04:33:40 PM 841 Views
Pfft - 18/05/2010 05:31:16 PM 841 Views
You don't have to intimidate people to manipulate them. - 19/05/2010 12:46:02 AM 690 Views

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