This is one of those spots in the theory that I figured wasn't all that predictable. But I'm glad you asked, because I've been thinking on it, and I've come up with what I think is a plausible scenario.
I'd noticed while writing the theory that when Gawyn swears, it's in Egwene's point of view, but more to the point, she specifically tells him to wait until she can find proof that Rand did not do it.
Gawyn's perspective is different, though:
One means by which Gawyn might get his 'proof' is Ellorien. He might also get it from the others who supported Dyelin; Gawyn will know better than to trust the ones who supported Arymilla, with the exception of perhaps Sylvase (another possibility for chaos). None of the children were important enough to have a clue what was going on in Caemlyn at the time of Morgase's disappearance, nor were they necessarily old enough to understand what was going on any more than the adults did. That is how Gawyn, being a logical person and typically a good judge of character, will have to see it.
But Ellorien in particular does not believe that Rahvin controlled Morgase, so I see her as a very likely source for Gawyn's proof - Ellorien, the first to throw her support to Morgase, and surely her most loyal friend.
I have gotten the impression that the Pattern has been holding Perrin in the south just as surely as the Pattern drew Verin to Mat. Technically, she could have been lying, but I do not think she was. Things are getting quite dire. If Perrin and Galad go to Caemlyn, then Gawyn will learn the truth. But he won't, and he'll find a way to kill Rand.
I have begun to suspect that Elayne will not be in Caemlyn at all when Rand and Gawyn duel. There is an important event that is lurking on Elayne's horizon: she must claim the Sun Throne. There was heavy foreshadowing in The Gathering Storm and before that Gawyn has a duty in Andor, to his sister.
In Arthurian legend, the Battle of Camlann is sometimes precipitated by Mordred usurping the throne in Arthur's absence by seducing the queen, Guinevere. Elaine is like Mary as far as Biblical names go, but Elayne has Guinevere parallels for being Rand's queen. It is unlikely that Gawyn is going to seduce Elayne; however, it is quite likely that Elayne would trust him to watch the kingdom while she goes to make her claim in Cairhien.
Thematically, this all ties back to the end of The Fires of Heaven and the beginning of Lord of Chaos, when Rand has just conquered both cities, one by ousting a Forsaken, the other by breaking the Shaido siege at Cairhien (where Moiraine ousted a Forsaken from their own ranks). It was then that Rand announced who he meant to have the Sun Throne, with no real indication if that was what he had been planning all along (though it seems likely, especially considering that it seemed Morgase would rule Andor for many years yet at that point).
I don't believe that Elayne will take the Sun Throne - I think Moiraine will - but I do figure that her going to claim it is probably important, and probably ties into Moiraine's importance as well. There's also a chance there for Demandred to get in some Mordred-ish action by being in Cairhien (though he would be rather tall for a Cairhienin...so was Barthanes Damodred). Demandred has spied on Elayne in Tel'aran'rhiod, and he had the hots for Ilyena as well. It may be that Demandred has been posing as a Damodred all along, and just not one quite important enough to be seen on screen (we have only seen a few of them). But the Damodreds have been taking a few hits. Barthanes was High Seat, and then Caraline. Will she still be High Seat as queen of Tear? It seems unlikely. Moiraine has been eligible to claim the Sun Throne for all these years, but so far as everyone in Cairhien knows, she died taking out Lanfear.
Back to Ellorien, and specifically, what she believes:
I could give other quotes to emphasize the point, but one important one is this:
Not a word about behind the Dragon Reborn, either.
So, Gawyn will betray his promise to Egwene because he will believe that he has found proof. It seems unlikely that Ellorien would try to turn Gawyn against Elayne, but she is clever enough see the opportunity to make Elayne's life miserable by helping to turn Gawyn against Rand.
In any case, I don't think that Elayne will be there to interfere when Gawyn and Rand duel, and it may well be that they duel in the exact same hall where Elaida gave her Foretelling, saying that Rand stood at the heart of the pain and division that come to Andor, and to the whole world.
I'd noticed while writing the theory that when Gawyn swears, it's in Egwene's point of view, but more to the point, she specifically tells him to wait until she can find proof that Rand did not do it.
Gawyn's perspective is different, though:
TITLE: The Gathering Storm
CHAPTER: 13 - An Offer and a Departure
He'd promised Egwene anything. Anything, as long as it didn't hurt Andor or Elayne. Light, he'd promised her not to kill al'Thor. At least, not until after Gawyn could prove for certain that the Dragon had killed his mother. Why couldn't Egwene see that the man she'd grown up with had turned into a monster, twisted by the One Power? Al'Thor needed to be put down. For the good of them all.
CHAPTER: 13 - An Offer and a Departure
He'd promised Egwene anything. Anything, as long as it didn't hurt Andor or Elayne. Light, he'd promised her not to kill al'Thor. At least, not until after Gawyn could prove for certain that the Dragon had killed his mother. Why couldn't Egwene see that the man she'd grown up with had turned into a monster, twisted by the One Power? Al'Thor needed to be put down. For the good of them all.
One means by which Gawyn might get his 'proof' is Ellorien. He might also get it from the others who supported Dyelin; Gawyn will know better than to trust the ones who supported Arymilla, with the exception of perhaps Sylvase (another possibility for chaos). None of the children were important enough to have a clue what was going on in Caemlyn at the time of Morgase's disappearance, nor were they necessarily old enough to understand what was going on any more than the adults did. That is how Gawyn, being a logical person and typically a good judge of character, will have to see it.
But Ellorien in particular does not believe that Rahvin controlled Morgase, so I see her as a very likely source for Gawyn's proof - Ellorien, the first to throw her support to Morgase, and surely her most loyal friend.
I have gotten the impression that the Pattern has been holding Perrin in the south just as surely as the Pattern drew Verin to Mat. Technically, she could have been lying, but I do not think she was. Things are getting quite dire. If Perrin and Galad go to Caemlyn, then Gawyn will learn the truth. But he won't, and he'll find a way to kill Rand.
I have begun to suspect that Elayne will not be in Caemlyn at all when Rand and Gawyn duel. There is an important event that is lurking on Elayne's horizon: she must claim the Sun Throne. There was heavy foreshadowing in The Gathering Storm and before that Gawyn has a duty in Andor, to his sister.
In Arthurian legend, the Battle of Camlann is sometimes precipitated by Mordred usurping the throne in Arthur's absence by seducing the queen, Guinevere. Elaine is like Mary as far as Biblical names go, but Elayne has Guinevere parallels for being Rand's queen. It is unlikely that Gawyn is going to seduce Elayne; however, it is quite likely that Elayne would trust him to watch the kingdom while she goes to make her claim in Cairhien.
Thematically, this all ties back to the end of The Fires of Heaven and the beginning of Lord of Chaos, when Rand has just conquered both cities, one by ousting a Forsaken, the other by breaking the Shaido siege at Cairhien (where Moiraine ousted a Forsaken from their own ranks). It was then that Rand announced who he meant to have the Sun Throne, with no real indication if that was what he had been planning all along (though it seems likely, especially considering that it seemed Morgase would rule Andor for many years yet at that point).
I don't believe that Elayne will take the Sun Throne - I think Moiraine will - but I do figure that her going to claim it is probably important, and probably ties into Moiraine's importance as well. There's also a chance there for Demandred to get in some Mordred-ish action by being in Cairhien (though he would be rather tall for a Cairhienin...so was Barthanes Damodred). Demandred has spied on Elayne in Tel'aran'rhiod, and he had the hots for Ilyena as well. It may be that Demandred has been posing as a Damodred all along, and just not one quite important enough to be seen on screen (we have only seen a few of them). But the Damodreds have been taking a few hits. Barthanes was High Seat, and then Caraline. Will she still be High Seat as queen of Tear? It seems unlikely. Moiraine has been eligible to claim the Sun Throne for all these years, but so far as everyone in Cairhien knows, she died taking out Lanfear.
Back to Ellorien, and specifically, what she believes:
TITLE - Knife of Dreams
CHAPTER: 17 - A Bronze Bear
“Luan and Abelle were… noncommittal,” Dyelin continued, frowning at the halberdier. “They may be swaying toward you.” She hardly sounded as though she believed it, however. “I reminded Luan that he helped me arrest Naean and Elenia. back in the beginning, but that may have done no more good than it did with Pelivar.”
“So they may all be waiting for Arymilla to win,” Birgitte said grimly. “If you survive, they’ll declare for you against her. If you don’t, one of them will make her own claim. Ellorien has the next best right after you, doesn’t she?” Dyelin scowled, but she offered no denials.
“And Ellorien?” Elayne asked quietly. She was sure she knew the answer there already. Her mother had had Ellorien flogged. That had been under Rahvin’s influence, but few seemed to believe that. Few seemed to believe Gaebril had even been Rahvin.
Dyelin grimaced. “The woman’s head is stone! She’d announce a claim in my name if she thought it would do any good. At least she has enough sense to see it won’t.” Elayne noted that she made no mention of any claims in Ellorien’s own name. “In any case. I left Keraille Surtovni and Julanya Fote to watch them. I doubt they’ll move, but if they do. we’ll know straightaway.” Three Kinswomen who needed to form a circle to Travel were watching the Borderlanders for the same reason.
CHAPTER: 17 - A Bronze Bear
“Luan and Abelle were… noncommittal,” Dyelin continued, frowning at the halberdier. “They may be swaying toward you.” She hardly sounded as though she believed it, however. “I reminded Luan that he helped me arrest Naean and Elenia. back in the beginning, but that may have done no more good than it did with Pelivar.”
“So they may all be waiting for Arymilla to win,” Birgitte said grimly. “If you survive, they’ll declare for you against her. If you don’t, one of them will make her own claim. Ellorien has the next best right after you, doesn’t she?” Dyelin scowled, but she offered no denials.
“And Ellorien?” Elayne asked quietly. She was sure she knew the answer there already. Her mother had had Ellorien flogged. That had been under Rahvin’s influence, but few seemed to believe that. Few seemed to believe Gaebril had even been Rahvin.
Dyelin grimaced. “The woman’s head is stone! She’d announce a claim in my name if she thought it would do any good. At least she has enough sense to see it won’t.” Elayne noted that she made no mention of any claims in Ellorien’s own name. “In any case. I left Keraille Surtovni and Julanya Fote to watch them. I doubt they’ll move, but if they do. we’ll know straightaway.” Three Kinswomen who needed to form a circle to Travel were watching the Borderlanders for the same reason.
I could give other quotes to emphasize the point, but one important one is this:
TITLE - Knife of Dreams
CHAPTER: 35 - The Importance of Dyelin
“Pendar stands for Trakand,” Abelle said suddenly, and right atop him, Luan said. “Norwelyn stands for Trakand.” Lightning flashed overhead, brightening the colored windows in the ceiling.
Elayne kept herself from swaying with an effort. Birgitte’s face was smooth, but the bond carried amazement. It was done. She had eleven, and the throne was hers.
“The more who stand for her, the better for Andor.” Dyelin sounded a touch dazed herself. “Stand with me for Trakand.”
There was another pause, longer, full of exchanged glances, but then, one by one. Arathelle, Pelivar and Aemlyn announced that their Houses stood for Trakand. Doing so for Dyelin, though. Elayne would have to remember that. Perhaps she could win their loyalty in time, but for the present, they supported her for Dyelin’s sake.
“She has the throne,” Ellorien said, as cold as ever. “The rest is fluff and feathers.”
Elayne tried to make her voice warm. “Will you dine with us this evening, Ellorien? At least remain until the rain abates.”
“I have my own cooks.” Ellorien replied, turning away toward the doors. Her serving woman came running to take her cup and return it to the table. “As soon as the rain stops, I will be leaving for Sheldyn. I’ve been away too long.”
“Tarmon Gai’don is coming soon, Ellorien,” Elayne said. “You won’t be able to remain on your estates then.”
Ellorien paused, looking over her shoulder. “When Tarmon Gai’don comes, Traemane rides for the Last Battle, and we ride behind the Lion of Andor.” Thunder boomed as she strode out of the Grand Hall with her serving woman at her heels.
“Will you all join me in my apartments?" Elayne asked the others.
Behind the Lion of Andor, but not a word about behind Elayne Trakand. Nearly half her support was suspect one way or another, Jarid Sarand was still on the loose with a not inconsiderable force, and she would have trouble from Ellorien eventually. It was never this way in stories. In stories, everything was always wrapped up neatly by the end. Real life was much . . . messier. Still, she had the throne at last. There was still the coronation, but that was a formality now. As she led the procession from the Grand Hall, chatting with Luan and Pelivar, thunder rolled overhead like martial drums beating the march for Tarmon Gai’don. How long before Andor’s banners had to march to the Last Battle?
CHAPTER: 35 - The Importance of Dyelin
“Pendar stands for Trakand,” Abelle said suddenly, and right atop him, Luan said. “Norwelyn stands for Trakand.” Lightning flashed overhead, brightening the colored windows in the ceiling.
Elayne kept herself from swaying with an effort. Birgitte’s face was smooth, but the bond carried amazement. It was done. She had eleven, and the throne was hers.
“The more who stand for her, the better for Andor.” Dyelin sounded a touch dazed herself. “Stand with me for Trakand.”
There was another pause, longer, full of exchanged glances, but then, one by one. Arathelle, Pelivar and Aemlyn announced that their Houses stood for Trakand. Doing so for Dyelin, though. Elayne would have to remember that. Perhaps she could win their loyalty in time, but for the present, they supported her for Dyelin’s sake.
“She has the throne,” Ellorien said, as cold as ever. “The rest is fluff and feathers.”
Elayne tried to make her voice warm. “Will you dine with us this evening, Ellorien? At least remain until the rain abates.”
“I have my own cooks.” Ellorien replied, turning away toward the doors. Her serving woman came running to take her cup and return it to the table. “As soon as the rain stops, I will be leaving for Sheldyn. I’ve been away too long.”
“Tarmon Gai’don is coming soon, Ellorien,” Elayne said. “You won’t be able to remain on your estates then.”
Ellorien paused, looking over her shoulder. “When Tarmon Gai’don comes, Traemane rides for the Last Battle, and we ride behind the Lion of Andor.” Thunder boomed as she strode out of the Grand Hall with her serving woman at her heels.
“Will you all join me in my apartments?" Elayne asked the others.
Behind the Lion of Andor, but not a word about behind Elayne Trakand. Nearly half her support was suspect one way or another, Jarid Sarand was still on the loose with a not inconsiderable force, and she would have trouble from Ellorien eventually. It was never this way in stories. In stories, everything was always wrapped up neatly by the end. Real life was much . . . messier. Still, she had the throne at last. There was still the coronation, but that was a formality now. As she led the procession from the Grand Hall, chatting with Luan and Pelivar, thunder rolled overhead like martial drums beating the march for Tarmon Gai’don. How long before Andor’s banners had to march to the Last Battle?
Not a word about behind the Dragon Reborn, either.
So, Gawyn will betray his promise to Egwene because he will believe that he has found proof. It seems unlikely that Ellorien would try to turn Gawyn against Elayne, but she is clever enough see the opportunity to make Elayne's life miserable by helping to turn Gawyn against Rand.
In any case, I don't think that Elayne will be there to interfere when Gawyn and Rand duel, and it may well be that they duel in the exact same hall where Elaida gave her Foretelling, saying that Rand stood at the heart of the pain and division that come to Andor, and to the whole world.
My new 'loony' theory
03/05/2010 11:09:52 AM
- 2251 Views
Hehe, yeah, we can also discuss it here...
03/05/2010 12:04:57 PM
- 1146 Views
Good deal. You're still being prejudiced, though.
03/05/2010 12:20:00 PM
- 1273 Views
Of course, I prefer my theory....
03/05/2010 01:01:07 PM
- 1002 Views
I suppose it's better than Beslan
03/05/2010 01:19:52 PM
- 1180 Views
He, Beslan being Berelain's man in white was a most brilliant theory!
03/05/2010 01:55:07 PM
- 1132 Views
See, this is why I am right and you are wrong!
04/05/2010 03:56:31 AM
- 954 Views
In my view
04/05/2010 10:07:02 AM
- 891 Views
Still prejudiced, of course...
04/05/2010 10:24:53 AM
- 1007 Views
Just disagreeing
04/05/2010 11:15:44 AM
- 983 Views
And repeating yourself. But I have evidence.
04/05/2010 12:24:06 PM
- 960 Views
Well...
04/05/2010 01:10:17 PM
- 884 Views
This is getting silly
04/05/2010 01:27:56 PM
- 880 Views
Yeah, I think as well that we have sufficiently exchanged our views on this matter! *NM*
04/05/2010 02:18:09 PM
- 463 Views
Re: My new 'loony' theory
03/05/2010 04:27:12 PM
- 1039 Views
cool people change the subject line
04/05/2010 04:14:18 AM
- 1088 Views
Re: cool people change the subject line
04/05/2010 06:43:01 AM
- 871 Views
Re: cool people change the subject line
04/05/2010 07:32:24 AM
- 940 Views
Re: cool people change the subject line
04/05/2010 08:31:47 AM
- 1081 Views
Re: cool people change the subject line
04/05/2010 09:27:51 AM
- 1027 Views
I dont claim to be but didnt you say cool people change the subject line?
05/05/2010 02:41:49 AM
- 966 Views
Yes. What of it? *NM*
05/05/2010 03:22:34 AM
- 623 Views
now you're a cool kid again? *NM*
05/05/2010 03:23:49 AM
- 559 Views
It was originally a comment on those who normally dwell here (and also did at Wotmania of course) *NM*
05/05/2010 03:25:17 AM
- 544 Views
Re: My new 'loony' theory
04/05/2010 04:44:28 AM
- 1042 Views
what comments by Brandon, and what flaws?
04/05/2010 04:49:29 AM
- 1011 Views
Gawyn promised not to raise a hand against Rand
06/05/2010 12:59:47 AM
- 813 Views
Indeed he did.
06/05/2010 07:23:44 AM
- 1199 Views
But...
06/05/2010 08:52:04 AM
- 1007 Views
Just because it makes more sense to you doesn't make it more likely. I have evidence!
06/05/2010 09:57:52 AM
- 844 Views
Well...
06/05/2010 11:12:42 AM
- 947 Views
*sigh*
06/05/2010 01:41:03 PM
- 1042 Views
I'm still hoping to dissuade you from this crazy idea!
06/05/2010 02:07:54 PM
- 1002 Views
You won't.
06/05/2010 02:11:42 PM
- 969 Views
Gawyn agreed that he would talk with Elayne about this topic
06/05/2010 02:32:55 PM
- 1067 Views
Nice theory ...
07/05/2010 06:25:29 PM
- 1040 Views
Take two
17/05/2010 07:33:35 PM
- 894 Views
Re: Take two
17/05/2010 11:45:08 PM
- 931 Views
Re: Take two
18/05/2010 12:52:10 AM
- 986 Views
Re: Take two
18/05/2010 01:35:46 AM
- 1048 Views
Re: Take two
18/05/2010 01:45:24 AM
- 981 Views