It was on a place said Nym had been in control of and influencing for 3,000 years, to which he could draw people at will, even from across the Mountains of Dhoom. Who knows what factors might have wieghed the balance more heavily in his favor.
Yes, we don't know.
I suspect I am going to get tired of making some variant of this point before this post is over, so I will state it as Cannoli's Law of Villainy, No.1: If the bad guys did not do stupid things they would not be the villains. The Forsaken BECAME Forsaken for the chance to do villainy. Asking them to refrain from self-indulgence and rethink their assumption of superiority is like asking a priest to not pray and stop assuming God exists. In both cases it is the whole point of their being what they are.
I don't agree with this law. You can be self-indulgent and narcissistic without being stupid and suicidal.
Considering its 99.999% success rate (including most of his colleagues), yeah.
What? Who did it work with?
Also, you are operating from a mistaken assumption that ties into CLoV#1: you are presuming that Ishamael shares your perspective and values. You see it as a straight-up, Rand vs. Forsaken fight where the death of one will result in the victory of the other. In fact, as we know from tPoD, Ishamael/Moridin sees it as something else. He views Rand as crucially necessary to his agenda, and could no sooner kill him than Siuan could for his effrontery in Fal Dara - however personally satisfying, in each case, they see it as negating their long-term goals. We don't understand enough about what he is playing for or how he seeks to achieve it to call into question his perspicacity on the subject either.
Ishamael didn't know that he would resurface later, or he could only hope at best.
How do you any other channeling was an option for him at Falme? What weaves strike you as being most appropriate for fighting a giant man in the sky who is mystically linked to a powerful artifact? Since the One Power had no effect on the heroes called by the Horn, how do we know that it could be used against the sounder of it? Do you know a better defensive weapon than a quarterstaff, bearing in mind that he did not want to kill Rand, and would be mainly seeking to hold off Rand while he tried to persuade him to the Dark Side while avoiding a sword through the chest? Remember as well, he has confronted Rand three times at least and is still here. If anyone could have anticipated his own resurrection, it would have been Ishamael. If you knew you would be brought back to life, wouldn't suicide bombing seem like a much more reasonable tactic? And even in spite of that, he lasted for a while against Callandor, suggesting he had a very good chance of winning that fight. Rand's instinctive thwarting of his attacks says nothing about their relative skills or prudence in that fight.
Except that Ishamael had nothing to do with the sounder of the Horn, that being Mat. Rand and Ishamael's fight in the sky was something they were both unaware of - a cinematic extravaganza for the whole world to see with very little true relevance. Ishamael didn't want to kill Rand at first, but his staff was certainly lethal when he wanted it to be, though still foolish in the face of swordfighting.
Yes. As far as he knew, his trap worked, for who else would be walking alone into an Aes Sedai's rooms? It was also a question of priorities. He was focussed on Rand, because what kind of fool ignores the possibility of Callandor being weilded at his back while he turns to swat a fly?
Yes.
He went along for his best chance at power. There is no indication he was every fooled by her, and her own words suggest her failure to manipulate him. He was even cautious and astute in his efforts to feel Rand out before making his move, and he shrewedly rejected Lanfear and her plan when he got a look at what was going on - both her own erratic behavior and focus and the improbability of manipulating Rand. Despite her supposed power and standing among the Forsaken, you don't see a lot of respect for her abilities among them. Even in the backhanded manner in which they do assess one another, Lanfear seems to be dismissed as the crazy stalker chick no one really takes seriously. Graendal seems more wary of Moghedian's visit, for example than Rahvin seems of Lanfear's.
Well Rahvin does stand at full readiness when she's around, and he does mention her temper and her propensity to stab people in the back. Still, Asmodean was possibly duped by Lanfear in some ways, though if he'd achieved his goal, she would have been toast moments later.
But if she was the sort to appreciate what was important, and grasp her true stature relative to others, she would not have been the sort to turn to the Dark One out of others' failure to match her opinions.
Well no, because a flawed character doesn't mean a flawed battle plan. I don't know why you claim that villains have to foolish fighters just because they have a huge gap in their personalities. At worst, it's a weakness - though no worse than Rand's weakness for hurting women. It's a limiting factor that can be overcome by a shrewd mind.
Whom he had no way of knowing would be there. Let me get this straight? You are saying he's incompetent for NOT exposing himself to the front lines of a chaotic battlefield, when the series is full of people cautioning Rand and Elayne how easy it is for a leader to be killed by random chance in such a circumstance, regardless of their ability to channel? He correctly assessed Rand's level of ability and expected it was a ways to go before he had to worry about Rand confronting him personally. And let's keep goals in mind here, once again. Rahvin was not there to fight and kill Rand. Best to leave that to the Dark One who has the best chance of beating him. Rand beating the Dark One is bad for Rahvin (or any Forsaken) but it is a better outcome if they survive Tarmon Gaidon, than if the Dark One wins but Rahvin dies. If Rand dies defeating the Dark One, he wins. If Rahvin dies defeating the Dragon, he loses. According to RJ the Dark One brings back the Forsaken strictly for their utility, and how much use will he have for the Forsaken in a world where the only man who can stop the Dark One is gone? Given the fatal outcome of the Rand vs. Rahvin, avoiding a fight as long as possible seems to have been the smarter move. Going out to the street to help would have exposed him to more of Rand's allies, and it might have been an arrow in the back, rather than a weave of weak T'A'R fire. Both Bel'al and Rahvin sought to confront Rand stripped of allies and support and had total control over the scenario until outside support blundered in in an unforeseeable manner.
No, the problem with Rahvin was that he sat on his throne and socialized while he knew that Rand was outside trying to get in. Would you do that if you knew the Dragon Reborn was on your doorstep. Rahvin deigned to send some long distance lightning after Rand, but was at his ease and assumed that Rand couldn't Travel and would play to his tune.
As for being on his throne at the time, Rahvin's objective was to retain rule of Andor. In such a crisis as is taking place, keeping your thumb on the powers through whom you are attempting to rule is a smart move. You criticize him for being about his very purpose. He is not a reader, and thus does not see his position as "foil to the protagonist" but as someone trying to effectively rule a part of the world and extend that part as much as possible for the good of the Shadow and Rahvin.
A moments later he killed the whole leadership of Andor trying to kill Rand. So much for that.
Didn't really ahve a choice about the battle, but it was one for which he knew he was ill-suited. He did not execute his attack perfectly, but he was hardly a professional fighter.
True, but not being a professional fighter is no excuse. If he couldn't do it right, he should have hidden like Moghedien.
More denial? Have we learned nothing from the outcome of the "Semirhage has a master plan" fallacy of the pre-tGS era?
We don't know the details of her death. Maybe Aran'gar is dead too.
She became a Forsaken exactly to indulge those impulses and to assert her own superiority. The kind of person who would do the smart or prudent thing in those instances, or who would prudently restrain herself, would not have become Semirhage in the first place. CLoV#1. QED
Nonsense. She became Semirhage to avoid being severed or bound, not to indulge in sadism. She did that anyway. The fact that the scenario presented its self to her was was ultimately undid her, or drew her in. I don't like Cannoli's villany law... it's too simplistic.
Always. They are not so much incompetent as true to their dysfunctional natures. Almsot all of them went over to the Dark One because of their problems functioning in normal society and by normal standards. Because of their dysfunctionality, they could only thrive in a world gone mad, with a patron as powerful and perverse as the Dark One, to grant them license and the freedom to act as they would. In a saner time they had not yet turned on its head, they were vulnerable to the fate of the nail that sticks up. Graendal speaks to Sammael of the result of his need to weild power openly - it brings Rand down on his head, as it does to Rahvin and Bel'al. Rahvin's self-indulgence in his noteworthy vice is eventually what brought Rand down on him, as her own disgust and shame at him was part of what drove Morgase to shake his control and flee. Had he been content to limit himself to "advising" Morgase or her bed alone, Lini's revelation of his profligacy would not have driven Morgase to flee, and thus bring Rand's wrath on his head. The Forsaken mostly fell by bringing themselves to his notice, and that could not be helped because of who they were and what they wanted, and in most cases, he happened to stand in the way of what they wanted, which led to them trying to go through him to do it, and failing.
I agree that their flaws are ultimately their downfall, and I think it's going to be true for the remaining Forsaken too. Even the characters in the Light have flaws, so I don't think it's sensible to make it the be all and end all of the Forsaken. Anyone's flaws can be exploited.
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Fan of Lanfear
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Forsaken deaths - incompetent or unlucky?
- 28/04/2010 07:43:08 PM
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I don't believe in luck, so I tend to think they were incompetent and didn't adequately plan. 
*NM*
- 28/04/2010 08:44:27 PM
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*NM*
- 28/04/2010 08:44:27 PM
230 Views
Re: I don't believe in luck, so I tend to think they were incompetent and didn't adequately plan.
- 28/04/2010 09:49:19 PM
510 Views
- 28/04/2010 09:49:19 PM
510 Views
You ever see the movie Idiocrasy? Apparently AoL was like that... *NM*
- 29/04/2010 03:57:05 AM
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What do you mean by evolved?
- 29/04/2010 04:34:38 AM
525 Views
Only the strongest survived.
- 29/04/2010 03:04:33 PM
511 Views
That's not evolution, that's what follows evolution, cleaning up its messes. *NM*
- 30/04/2010 02:22:03 AM
208 Views
Nope, it's evolution. It's the real world that "cleans up" the messes/less useful mutations. *NM*
- 30/04/2010 02:42:43 PM
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Introducing Cannoli's Law of Villainy #1
- 29/04/2010 04:29:29 AM
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Re: Introducing Cannoli's Law of Villainy #1
- 29/04/2010 07:04:05 AM
670 Views
True. Witness Hitler, his evil nature caused him to do obviously stupid and self-destructive things
- 29/04/2010 05:54:46 PM
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