I understand the principle of kinetic energy weapons. If one doesn't come prepared for that though, it's not something that's easy to do. What do they push out of the shuttle? Their stove? Not big enough. Where do they push it out? It's quite likely that a transport ship doesn't have a giant bomb-bay door that can be opened in space. You can't just throw your massive object out the window, y'know. And as far as tracking goes, you need to be pretty precise if you're going to drop an object big enough to wipe out the tree of souls, but small enough not to destroy all the unobtanium they're looking to harvest. You're not talking a nuke from space, you're talking a relatively precise strike. Perhaps it does, but I see no reason for a transport ship to have capabilities of that sort.

As to the hostages, keep in mind we're talking human beings here! Not savages. I know some pretty cut-throat businessmen, but none who would kill a few dozen of their friends and co-workers just to have another shot at a deal. Furthermore, the people of this expedition spent a few months (years?) trying to interface with the natives. They had relatively good intentions. I really can't imagine that people like that would mow down hostages (again, friends and co-workers they've lived with for a long time) as easily as you. That said, I do agree that the "select individuals" were likely the good guys. I was just saying that the statement didn't preclude the possibility of hostages. Wasn't a key argument of mine, though.




Helicopters don't fly at low speeds in no visibility conditions amongst floating mountains, and are rarely beset by flying things that are more maneuverable than themselves. When has a helicopter on earth EVER faced the possibility of having a rock dropped onto its rotors from above? Never? The Arabs we're fighting don't zoom around on jetpacks. Helicopters are the most maneuverable things in the sky. You don't bring them down by dropping crap on them. The pandorans, however, COULD HAVE DONE THAT in their unique situation. They flew right over the choppers many, many times. The entire invasion force was basically stationary for most of the battle.



What? No, man. My counter argument against them being the underdogs was that Na'avi never fought humans. They fought machines powered by humans. If the colonel fights Tsu-tey man-to-man, he loses. If a mech fights Tsu-tey, well then. Tsu-tey probably loses. And like I said, this scales up. Banshee fights gunship, it probably loses (and did more times than not). Etc, etc.

Maybe you were talking about the environment comments though? The same principle holds. I don't think the humans should win in the Pandoran environment because they BEAT EARTH'S ENVIRONMENT WITH SHEER TOUGHNESS RAWR. I think they should win in the Pandora environment because they have the tools necessary to do so. Tools developed subjugating Earth's environment.



I'm sorry if I wasn't clear; let me paint the scenario I was envisioning as likely, or at least probable enough not to cause undue skepticism.

Let's assume that, much like today, there are a lot of corporations. Only a few of them are particularly powerful, though. The space age is just beginning, and new planets are being discovered, either by long range scans of some sort, maybe some autonomous probes, etc. One of these companies gets the idea to send an expedition to one of these newly discovered planets, perhaps as a result of information discovered by one of their probes, whatever. At this point, maybe the government regulates them somehow. Whatever they do, though, I'm assuming that there aren't yet any laws regarding alien life, because they're not yet aware of it. Space is a new frontier, and the government has some safety regs, but nothing that really precludes exploration.

Anyway, off goes the expedition ship. If it fails, is it unreasonable to think that the company would go bankrupt? Or at least not have the funds to try again? I don't think so. Businesses put all their eggs into one basket all the time. Big risk, big reward. In this case, the risk wins. The ship limps home, and people on earth are informed of the happenings. The government(s) at last learns of what they were doing with the natives (maybe that there are natives in the first place?), and forbids further involvement until official negotiations can be put in place, blah blah blah.

What if that doesn't happen though? What if the other companies hear about what happened, and decide to make a go of it, like you were saying? This is, obviously, possible. However, when faced with a united population of warring natives and an extremely hostile environment, I think they would send their expedition to another world. I think it's likely that Pandora was the first visited by an expedition, but probably not the only world discovered. I was never trying to say that there are dozens of mining ships zooming all over the place, just that there are probably other worlds out there to which an expedition could realistically be sent. Pandora might still be doable, but instead they try that nice desert planet one system over.

Anyway, you see what I'm saying? I don't disagree that it's possible that another company would pick up the slack and wipe out the Pandorans for a quick game-over. I just think there are some very plausible scenarios that lead to a Pandoran "win." The first company to try them doesn't have the resources to do so again. The government changes from "ok, you can go explore, but don't do anything stupid" to "holy crap let's not start interstellar war," and forbids involvement. Other companies decide to look for easier meat in what is presumably a vast new frontier that has just opened up.

I just don't think it's as cut and dry as you make it, that's all. The wounded company can't come flying back for revenge, and copy-cats are turned away by politics and aversion to a demonstrated risk of catastrophe. Is that really so far fetched?



I'm not sure which of my arguments this responds to, specifically. However, I'd say "not long." That's not the point, though. The point isn't whether they could be beaten, if the humans got a do-over. The fact is that the first try failed, in a relatively plausible manner. And it's very possible that such results could dissuade the powers on earth from trying again. Which is a cut and dry, straight up WIN for the Pandorans.