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I'll simply ignore the snark and reply to the points you actually made

ironclad Send a noteboard - 24/04/2014 09:10:15 AM

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View original postOverall a bit of a filler episode that is still setting up future events quite nicely.

View original postA few thoughts and questions:

View original postSiblings Jaime and Cersei doing it in the septa next to their dead kid. That's pretty messed up. I am not sure that actually happened in the book and it didn't really fit with TV-Jaime's established character.

View original postIt's the "sept". Septa is a nun. So doing it in the nun is a whole other kind of perversion. As others have pointed out, it did happen in the book, and as for out of character, let's look at the other time the show portrays Jaime and Cersei having sex... oh, wait. We can't, because that was the scene that ended with his casual attempt at murdering a child. Among other murders alluded to and shown on the TV show, including that of a man established as a prior comrade in arms, just because he was pissed at the man's boss's wife.

And I agree with Isaac that the only reason this scene is not as big a deal as the internet made it this week is to remind us that all characters on the show are assholes. That works for me, but I still would have done this differently in Jaime's case.

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Was Dontos killed in the book? I can't remember, but I don't think so. I don't think they should have done that, making Littlefinger the bad guy. He's not that black and white for me.

Holding a knife to Ned's throat with glee, while his hiring slaughters all Ned's men? Heavily implied threats to Ros to get her to stop mourning a murdered baby (which only happened because Littlefinger helped put the killer in power) and get back to being sexually objectified? Actually having Joffrey torture Ros to death because she wasn't happy about serving a guy like that? Explicitly evil actions aside, did you miss his rant back during the sexposition scene where he's training the hookers to be fake lesbians, all about how he has been plotting revenge against Ned & Catelyn for years? Or how Ros warned Shae to keep Sansa away from him?

Maybe I just like Littlefinger, ok?? I can't make myself to call him evil! Not even after seeing all these horrible and true things listed!

View original postYou are seriously comparing the show FAVORABLY to the books in terms of dead weight? Which one introduced a completely gratuitous prostitute character, apparently solely for the purpose of titilation, and using up time that could be developing the consequential characters, only to kill her off without serving much purpose, other than possibly to illustrate Littlefinger's creepiness and evil. Said purpose apparently having been futile, as those characteristics have gone unnoticed. We get all kinds of dead weight like Lannister soldiers making crude jokes, in lieu of the actual battle of Oxcross. Rather than Oberyn's sexuality being casually referenced in a conversation, we have to have two more brothel scenes. The character in the books was a dangerous and unpredictable warrior, whose sexuality was merely the subject of rumors, which mostly served to illustrate who he considered himself unbound by cumstom or law. The guy on the TV show is a degenerate who lolls around in brothels with multiple prostitutes in two of the three episodes in which he has appeared, bullies lower-ranking men for being Lannisters, and is about as intimidating as Littlefinger. What could they have done with the money they wasted on sexpositioning the nature of his and Ellaria's relationship, which is really not that important to their characters? Emphasizing all the hookers they shared doesn't really add weight to her position as the voice of sanity when his daughters are spoiling for a fight over his non-murder.

I agree that showing Oberyn's sexuality serves little to no purpose. I could personally do without the sex scenes, but HBO apparently has a reputation to keep or whatever. Deal with it or turn it off, I suppose. Calling Oberyn a degenerate is typical Cannoli with little basis in reality, though.

View original postIf you are the type of person who needs to see movement to accept that something is happening, I guess the show is better fit for you. IMO, the stuff in Meereen was the most important, significant and interesting part of her entire arc, and did so much more to advance her character than a lot of wandering around letting people do things for her and tell her stories, in between bouts of indulging adolescent impulses, and getting away with it because dragons. In contrast to all the realistic interactions of characters and power or influence going on in Westeros, Daenerys story was a rather simplistic "return of the queen" type of story. Meereen is where she (maybe) learned that some problems can't be solved by mass murder, and the readers are signalled that her arrival on the shores of the Seven Kingdoms is not going to segue gracefully into "...happily ever after." It's where Martin gets realistic with the example of what is most likely to happen when you give even a well-meaning adolescent too much power (Robb being something of an abberration, who failed for lack of power, not a lack of maturity or restraint, and because Martin needed the traditional leader-types of House Stark out of the picture so the rest of the kids could rise from the ashes of absolute defeat).

I didn't mind reading the Meereen chapters, they work well for her character for the reasons you described. In hindsight they feel as if Martin had to keep Dany at a certain stage without being entirely sure what to do with her, while moving on with other characters. Watching the show together with a non-reader makes me realize that it keeps teasing Dany's constant accumulation of followers and power as she's getting closer to Westeros, while knowing the books deliver nothing of the kind as far as they're released. So the show will have to come up with ways to keep her story arc interesting without it feeling like treading water. I enjoy Martin's books but anyone who thinks he doesn't sometimes go too far with describing meals or banners while his characters do little of importance for half a book should probably stay away from the TV set because that's not how it works in this medium.

*MySmiley*

You mustn't be afraid to dream a little bigger, darling.

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Game of Thrones - Season 4, Episode 3 ironclad - 21/04/2014 02:46:59 PM 798 Views

Re: Game of Thrones - Season 4, Episode 3 heartbreak - 21/04/2014 03:22:23 PM 802 Views

From what I know..... Anonymous2000 - 21/04/2014 03:29:30 PM 710 Views

I liked that the episode reminded everyone that the characters are all bastards

Isaac - 22/04/2014 01:47:54 PM 654 Views

Dontos DomA - 21/04/2014 05:30:10 PM 579 Views

Huh, funny how the memory works sometimes. ironclad - 22/04/2014 12:08:03 PM 522 Views

Comments/Answers Kotagg - 21/04/2014 06:19:22 PM 696 Views

You should watch the first three seasons before commenting on these characters. Cannoli - 24/04/2014 12:58:18 AM 586 Views

I'll simply ignore the snark and reply to the points you actually made

ironclad - 24/04/2014 09:10:15 AM 497 Views

Oh crap, an adult! Cannoli - 25/04/2014 06:30:23 AM 577 Views

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<quote id="283798">Overall a bit of a filler episode that is still setting up future events quite nicely.</quote>

<quote id="283798">A few thoughts and questions:</quote>

<quote id="283798">Siblings Jaime and Cersei doing it in the septa next to their dead kid. That's pretty messed up. I am not sure that actually happened in the book and it didn't really fit with TV-Jaime's established character. </quote></quote>

<quote id="283798">It's the "sept".  Septa is a nun.  So doing it in the nun is a whole other kind of perversion. As others have pointed out, it did happen in the book, and as for out of character, let's look at the other time the show portrays Jaime and Cersei having sex... oh, wait. We can't, because that was the scene that ended with his casual attempt at murdering a child. Among other murders alluded to and shown on the TV show, including that of a man established as a prior comrade in arms, just because he was pissed at the man's boss's wife. </quote>
And I agree with Isaac that the only reason this scene is not as big a deal as the internet made it this week is to remind us that all characters on the show are assholes. That works for me, but I still would have done this differently in Jaime's case.

<quote id="283798"><quote>Was Dontos killed in the book? I can't remember, but I don't think so. I don't think they should have done that, making Littlefinger the bad guy. He's not that black and white for me.</quote> Holding a knife to Ned's throat with glee, while his hiring slaughters all Ned's men?  Heavily implied threats to Ros to get her to stop mourning a murdered baby (which only happened because Littlefinger helped put the killer in power) and get back to being sexually objectified?  Actually having Joffrey torture Ros to death because she wasn't happy about serving a guy like that? Explicitly evil actions aside, did you miss his rant back during the sexposition scene where he's training the hookers to be fake lesbians, all about how he has been plotting revenge against Ned & Catelyn for years?  Or how Ros warned Shae to keep Sansa away from him? </quote>
Maybe I just like Littlefinger, ok?? I can't make myself to call him evil! Not even after seeing all these horrible and true things listed!

<quote id="283798">You are seriously comparing the show FAVORABLY to the books in terms of dead weight?  Which one introduced a completely gratuitous prostitute character, apparently solely for the purpose of titilation, and using up time that could be developing the consequential characters, only to kill her off without serving much purpose, other than possibly to illustrate Littlefinger's creepiness and evil.  Said purpose apparently having been futile, as those characteristics have gone unnoticed.  We get all kinds of dead weight like Lannister soldiers making crude jokes, in lieu of the actual battle of Oxcross.  Rather than Oberyn's sexuality being casually referenced in a conversation, we have to have two more brothel scenes.  The character in the books was a dangerous and unpredictable warrior, whose sexuality was merely the subject of rumors, which mostly served to illustrate who he considered himself unbound by cumstom or law. The guy on the TV show is a degenerate who lolls around in brothels with multiple prostitutes in two of the three episodes in which he has appeared, bullies lower-ranking men for being Lannisters, and is about as intimidating as Littlefinger.  What could they have done with the money they wasted on sexpositioning the nature of his and Ellaria's relationship, which is really not that important to their characters? Emphasizing all the hookers they shared doesn't really add weight to her position as the voice of sanity when his daughters are spoiling for a fight over his non-murder. </quote>
I agree that showing Oberyn's sexuality serves little to no purpose. I could personally do without the sex scenes, but HBO apparently has a reputation to keep or whatever. Deal with it or turn it off, I suppose. Calling Oberyn a degenerate is typical Cannoli with little basis in reality, though.

<quote id="283798">If you are the type of person who needs to see movement to accept that something is happening, I guess the show is better fit for you. IMO, the stuff in Meereen was the most important, significant and interesting part of her entire arc, and did so much more to advance her character than a lot of wandering around letting people do things for her and tell her stories, in between bouts of indulging adolescent impulses, and getting away with it because dragons. In contrast to all the realistic interactions of characters and power or influence going on in Westeros, Daenerys story was a rather simplistic "return of the queen" type of story.  Meereen is where she (maybe) learned that some problems can't be solved by mass murder, and the readers are signalled that her arrival on the shores of the Seven Kingdoms is not going to segue gracefully into "...happily ever after."  It's where Martin gets realistic with the example of what is most likely to happen when you give even a well-meaning adolescent too much power (Robb being something of an abberration, who failed for lack of power, not a lack of maturity or restraint, and because Martin needed the traditional leader-types of House Stark out of the picture so the rest of the kids could rise from the ashes of absolute defeat). </quote>
I didn't mind reading the Meereen chapters, they work well for her character for the reasons you described. In hindsight they feel as if Martin had to keep Dany at a certain stage without being entirely sure what to do with her, while moving on with other characters. Watching the show together with a non-reader makes me realize that it keeps teasing Dany's constant accumulation of followers and power as she's getting closer to Westeros, while knowing the books deliver nothing of the kind as far as they're released. So the show will have to come up with ways to keep her story arc interesting without it feeling like treading water. I enjoy Martin's books but anyone who thinks he doesn't sometimes go too far with describing meals or banners while his characters do little of importance for half a book should probably stay away from the TV set because that's not how it works in this medium.
</quote>

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