Been a while since I read a forum post anywhere that I agreed so comepletely with!
		imlad Send a noteboard - 15/11/2011 05:10:45 AM
		
	
		
			
				That was just about perfect dude! 
When you've only really got one sympathetic character, and you then turn that character into a ruthless traitor for the sake of having a big shocking climax, well, that may be a clever choice, but for me at least it removed all reason and inclination to watch any more episodes.
It's been too long, I'm a bit confused there. You mean Nina?
That was an extremely manipulative American-TV style plot twist (manipulative, because as I think you mean too, it felt like everything about the character in the season was there for the "impact" when she was releaved as a traitor. Let's make her this way, and let's her do that, so that later the audience cares. It's terribly artificial). That was an early sign the writers were not so clever and original as the brilliant and innovative format of their show let believe.
Of course, they pulled off about every variation of the "traitor" and "fake traitor later revealed not to be" device in the book (even with Bauer himself). Heck, they even gave Nina a second run at some point, if I'm not mistaken.
Killing Jack's wife was a terrific send-off had the series stopped there (and thus on a very atypical dark note for a US show, especially one dealing with this subject matter where it seems the Americans must always triumph at the end in some way), but the way they milked it later on rapidly became very annoying.
I watched season 2 completely, lost interest rapidly along the way. It's then I stopped buying the DVDs. I started watching season 3 on TV, I gave up after a few episodes. Same when I borrowed sets from friends for season 4 and later 5, as apparently it was "better". I didn't even try for the others.
The show simply stopped having any depth or intelligence after the first season (all the writers cared about after season 1 was putting together another 24 episode puzzle that would essentially repeat the first, but became more and more far fetched, and over the top, in attempts to hide the fact they were just applying a recipe.), where there was an interesting perspective on America, politics and anti-terrorism (and was gathering extremely impressed and elogious reviews for this abroad). It rather distanced itself from reality more and more, avoided pretty much all the real issues concerning terrorism and the way the US dealt with it, and Bauer rapidly became a rather despicable and unsavoury "American Hero", a mix of vigilante and victim (a kind of symbol for "everyone doubt us, everyone dislikes us and out methods, even the establishment is putting its head in the sand but the Jack Bauers cowboys shall triumph and save everone) doubling as a poster boy for American paranoia, a hero tailored to fit the mood of many Americans during those years and kept being seen very positively by much of the audience, I'm sure, but the show became more and ridiculous, annoying and unwatchable if you're not American, almost pornographic in a sense. It went from being brilliant and innovative in season one to being dumb and one of the worst and most exploitative shows (milking shamelessly arabophobia one season, notably) in the other seasons. It became pure entertainment, unoriginal for the most part, annoying in other aspects, and unchallenging.
That was especially painful to see the show go that way when you watched the originally similar counter-terrorism/action/thriller series Spooks (from which 24 creators borrowed some of its editing style like the simultaneous shots on black, incidentally - they never hid that fact) from Kudos/BBC. Spooks went on to become everything 24 no longer had the balls to be. It managed to increase its social/political relevance over the years, staying often uncomfortably close to reality, while remaining entertaining as a thriller/action show, and with a great ensemble cast they made you care about instead of a central and more and more antiphatic hero/anti-hero. In short, a show with brains, and challenging about the issues regarding terrorism (without any easy answer, another challenge for its audience), instead of just an adrenaline rush.
 
Damn, wish we had a "Hippie Smiley" of some sort.
	
24 is another show that marked me, but only season 1. I don't list it high as to go down as a one of a kind classic, they needed to have the wisdom to stop after one season.  Instead they went one, rapidly showed themselves as a one trick pony and ruined all that.
When you've only really got one sympathetic character, and you then turn that character into a ruthless traitor for the sake of having a big shocking climax, well, that may be a clever choice, but for me at least it removed all reason and inclination to watch any more episodes.
It's been too long, I'm a bit confused there. You mean Nina?
That was an extremely manipulative American-TV style plot twist (manipulative, because as I think you mean too, it felt like everything about the character in the season was there for the "impact" when she was releaved as a traitor. Let's make her this way, and let's her do that, so that later the audience cares. It's terribly artificial). That was an early sign the writers were not so clever and original as the brilliant and innovative format of their show let believe.
Of course, they pulled off about every variation of the "traitor" and "fake traitor later revealed not to be" device in the book (even with Bauer himself). Heck, they even gave Nina a second run at some point, if I'm not mistaken.
Killing Jack's wife was a terrific send-off had the series stopped there (and thus on a very atypical dark note for a US show, especially one dealing with this subject matter where it seems the Americans must always triumph at the end in some way), but the way they milked it later on rapidly became very annoying.
I watched season 2 completely, lost interest rapidly along the way. It's then I stopped buying the DVDs. I started watching season 3 on TV, I gave up after a few episodes. Same when I borrowed sets from friends for season 4 and later 5, as apparently it was "better". I didn't even try for the others.
The show simply stopped having any depth or intelligence after the first season (all the writers cared about after season 1 was putting together another 24 episode puzzle that would essentially repeat the first, but became more and more far fetched, and over the top, in attempts to hide the fact they were just applying a recipe.), where there was an interesting perspective on America, politics and anti-terrorism (and was gathering extremely impressed and elogious reviews for this abroad). It rather distanced itself from reality more and more, avoided pretty much all the real issues concerning terrorism and the way the US dealt with it, and Bauer rapidly became a rather despicable and unsavoury "American Hero", a mix of vigilante and victim (a kind of symbol for "everyone doubt us, everyone dislikes us and out methods, even the establishment is putting its head in the sand but the Jack Bauers cowboys shall triumph and save everone) doubling as a poster boy for American paranoia, a hero tailored to fit the mood of many Americans during those years and kept being seen very positively by much of the audience, I'm sure, but the show became more and ridiculous, annoying and unwatchable if you're not American, almost pornographic in a sense. It went from being brilliant and innovative in season one to being dumb and one of the worst and most exploitative shows (milking shamelessly arabophobia one season, notably) in the other seasons. It became pure entertainment, unoriginal for the most part, annoying in other aspects, and unchallenging.
That was especially painful to see the show go that way when you watched the originally similar counter-terrorism/action/thriller series Spooks (from which 24 creators borrowed some of its editing style like the simultaneous shots on black, incidentally - they never hid that fact) from Kudos/BBC. Spooks went on to become everything 24 no longer had the balls to be. It managed to increase its social/political relevance over the years, staying often uncomfortably close to reality, while remaining entertaining as a thriller/action show, and with a great ensemble cast they made you care about instead of a central and more and more antiphatic hero/anti-hero. In short, a show with brains, and challenging about the issues regarding terrorism (without any easy answer, another challenge for its audience), instead of just an adrenaline rush.
Damn, wish we had a "Hippie Smiley" of some sort.
		Death to the Regressives of the GOP and the TeaParty. No mercy for Conservatives. Burn them all at the stake for the hateful satanists they are.
	
	
	
	
	
	
			What are your Top 5 TV shows of all time? (EDITed AGAIN)
	    
	         - 09/11/2011 06:41:59 PM
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			Now there's a tricky question.
	    
	         - 09/11/2011 08:28:51 PM
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			Go watch the west wing...do it now  - 10/11/2011 12:28:08 AM
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	         - 10/11/2011 12:28:08 AM
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	     - 10/11/2011 12:28:08 AM
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	         - 10/11/2011 12:28:08 AM
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			OMG stop ever other show or book you are involved in and start watching The Wire ASAP!!
	    
	         - 15/11/2011 05:00:15 AM
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			Obviously...you must be watching Treme too...
	    
	         - 17/11/2011 03:48:08 PM
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			Alas, I have not yet watched Treme. Will be soon tho... has Wendell Pierce, so I kinda have to! *NM*
	    
	         - 20/11/2011 04:24:42 PM
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			I might actually put Ab Fab in there too...
	    
	         - 10/11/2011 01:57:24 AM
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			I enjoyed 24 until the final episode of season one, and haven't bothered with it since. (spoilers)
	    
	         - 10/11/2011 07:32:20 PM
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			Me neither, well... mostly
	    
	         - 11/11/2011 06:41:21 PM
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			Been a while since I read a forum post anywhere that I agreed so comepletely with!
		
	         - 15/11/2011 05:10:45 AM
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			Buffy is my life, death, and resurrection.
	    
	         - 09/11/2011 09:02:09 PM
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			Friends & Frasier, but no Seinfeld? *NM*
	    
	         - 09/11/2011 09:03:41 PM
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			There's only so much room in my top 10 list. 'sides, I put it in the "mentions" below.
	    
	         - 09/11/2011 09:24:48 PM
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			Buffy is only barely in the top three for its own creator.  Angel & Firefly kicked its ass. *NM*
	    
	         - 11/11/2011 06:09:37 AM
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			Oz, Supernatural, Frasier, Dexter, Salatut Elämät (because I wanted something non-American)
	    
	         - 09/11/2011 09:14:34 PM
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			That's a very difficult question.
	    
	         - 10/11/2011 12:15:47 AM
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			Oh, I'd totally forgotten about Wonderfalls. Lovely show. *NM*
	    
	         - 10/11/2011 07:37:11 PM
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			Surprisingly high-quality show for one that almost no one has ever heard of. *NM*
	    
	         - 10/11/2011 11:55:21 PM
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			The episodes where things started culminating were some of the most interesting tv I've watched. *NM*
	    
	         - 10/11/2011 11:57:54 PM
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			I'm gonna have to split this up a bit....
	    
	         - 11/11/2011 10:06:48 PM
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			that makes two shows you list I have to watch
	    
	         - 15/11/2011 06:08:16 AM
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			Oz has some pretty intense themes and is *very* graphic....just so you know. *NM*
	    
	         - 15/11/2011 05:35:09 PM
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			Well now...
	    
	         - 14/11/2011 04:46:12 PM
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			I also loved Magnum, when I was a kid
	    
	         - 15/11/2011 11:37:00 AM
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			Saw a rerun not long ago... DAMN those shorts were short.  Good theme song too.  *NM*
	    
	         - 15/11/2011 01:12:21 PM
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 *NM*
	    
	         - 15/11/2011 01:12:21 PM
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	     *NM*
	    
	         - 15/11/2011 01:12:21 PM
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 *NM*
	    
	         - 15/11/2011 01:12:21 PM
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			not sure which ones I would pick but Mash would have to make the list *NM*
	    
	         - 28/11/2011 05:53:19 PM
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