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An informal agreement is probably the way to go then Isaac Send a noteboard - 15/11/2011 03:08:17 AM
If I had been a player I would have argued against it, but in this circumstance I let it pass because 1- I prefer not to penalise players for coming up with something I hadn't planned for and 2- I couldn't be certain it was an objective ruling rather than a desperate attempt to salvage my setup (unlike for example this, which was clearly an attempt to sidestep existing rules and I knew I would have banned in any game, ever.)


Well, I neutered it as best I could so it would only detect purely identical RM's, but as I said in the NB at the time, I was more than half convinced we had mass coppage going on. I didn't actually view it as a rules sidestep, the neutering was to minimize collateral damage if it wasn't the case as my head thought. Such a technique can only mean anything if the Mod's done identical wordings, which I never do and generally discourage... though it did win us the Tower game if you remember, that 'win with the Tower' bit let us run the table even with 3 scum and a SK in a game of 10, ditto game 2. Anyway, I don't encourage such sidesteps but I do consider it to be really more the responsibility yof the Mod to make them impossible by changing up RM wording.

Anyway, I don't think it's particularly unfair, but I generally dislike it because it breaks down the game to something more of a system than, well, a game. Generally speaking, it's my opinion that mafia should be played against the other players, not the game itself.

Incidentally, while I had not planned for coded roleclaims, I had conceived of situations like mass Day 1 roleclaims, and considered the idea of simply telling the scum about the setting, but I judged that would give them an unfair advantage. Instead, I tried to give them hints - first off, the no death messages was intended to encourage fakeclaims more than it was about actually concealing the number of cops - I never expected someone who thought they were a cop to go down without roleclaiming, at which point the cat would be out of the bag, and that likely on Day 1. Second, I gave both scum roles that messed with cop investigations - a Godfather and a Framer - to suggest the possibility that they would come under a lot of investigations. And third, I let them both know about each other's roles from Day 1, so that they would know about that aspect before they had the opportunity to communicate.

Amusingly enough, I was reluctant to replace Kronin because I knew any sub would have knowledge that they had been a Cop, and given the absence of death messages, that would make falseclaiming a cop far more obvious. Evidently, I need not have worried at all :P.

Another mistake I made with this setup is not allowing the Daycops to investigate on Day 1. Investigations would have given the Daycops more confidence to act on Day 1 (You'll notice Isaac and Ranagrande's behaviour on Day 2) and might have helped the generalised Day 1 paralysis. That was really stupid on my part.

Fun detail: Any cop, were he insane or even paranoid, investigating himself would turn up an innocent result. Because CONFOUND.

All the poems were about the setup, incidentally. With a bit of filler thrown in for the fun of additional confusion (the LotR and Diablo references, for example, were thrown in merely because I could :P). And I have no idea what the deal is with the widow's hair or the windows of the wretched stair. It just sounded cool.


It's hard to tell how much impact the poems ultimately had, I suspect they subconsciously clued me in but a lot of that's natural paranoia. Oh, the Titus thread's your turn again :P
The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift.
- Albert Einstein
King of Cairhien 20-7-2
Chancellor of the Landsraad, Archduke of Is'Mod
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Game 24, Day 2 - Game has ended Fanatic-Templar - 06/11/2011 06:04:27 PM 1176 Views
I'm actually a bit surprised by the choice of ? Isaac - 06/11/2011 07:34:57 PM 1084 Views
Yes, it was an oversight. He was a townie. *NM* Fanatic-Templar - 06/11/2011 08:01:11 PM 439 Views
Voting record: Fanatic-Templar - 07/11/2011 05:25:40 PM 951 Views
Was he suspicious of anyone yesterday? beetnemesis - 07/11/2011 02:52:26 PM 753 Views
Re: Was he suspicious of anyone yesterday? Isaac - 07/11/2011 03:36:31 PM 910 Views
I think a second look at our poetry is in order too, now we have more of it Isaac - 07/11/2011 12:43:21 AM 894 Views
Re: I think a second look at our poetry is in order too, now we have more of it Kronin al'Sulc - 07/11/2011 12:57:32 AM 766 Views
... and the two things Isaac - 07/11/2011 01:29:31 AM 908 Views
I object to this plan. Fanatic-Templar - 07/11/2011 02:07:35 AM 808 Views
UM UM UM ALERT ALERT ALERT beetnemesis - 07/11/2011 02:59:27 PM 687 Views
Re: UM UM UM ALERT ALERT ALERT Isaac - 07/11/2011 06:23:42 PM 824 Views
Re: UM UM UM ALERT ALERT ALERT beetnemesis - 07/11/2011 08:17:53 PM 724 Views
Wait, would everyone be picking their own two letters? Ah, ok, it's not as dangerous as I thought beetnemesis - 07/11/2011 08:20:32 PM 723 Views
Yes *NM* Isaac - 07/11/2011 08:41:04 PM 427 Views
and follow that to the logical conclusion... Isaac - 07/11/2011 08:40:43 PM 978 Views
no *NM* Hieshyn - 07/11/2011 06:19:20 PM 459 Views
FT already banned it *NM* Isaac - 07/11/2011 06:20:45 PM 418 Views
I know, I'm just voicing my opinion *NM* Hieshyn - 07/11/2011 06:27:34 PM 350 Views
Besides the ban, I can't see why you'd object Isaac - 07/11/2011 06:44:14 PM 756 Views
errrm, i don't think no is a strong enough word for this *NM* Yunalesca - 07/11/2011 06:58:09 PM 557 Views
? will be replacing Kronin... Fanatic-Templar - 07/11/2011 01:56:08 AM 780 Views
Vote: ? ranagrande - 07/11/2011 02:33:43 PM 950 Views
Re: Vote: ? Fox and Ravens - 07/11/2011 02:42:15 PM 1074 Views
I'll echo that vote. Stephen - 07/11/2011 06:15:21 PM 941 Views
He could have just been being polite Hieshyn - 07/11/2011 06:34:30 PM 1114 Views
Very good point, I think a roleclaim from ?, using Kronin's coded roleclaim from yesterday beetnemesis - 07/11/2011 08:22:45 PM 889 Views
? can't decode Kronin's RC, and he wouldn't be allowed to give his own Isaac - 07/11/2011 08:45:50 PM 835 Views
yeah I could go ahead and roleclaim if you want... ? - 07/11/2011 08:56:41 PM 802 Views
No, I don't want you to claim Isaac - 07/11/2011 08:57:47 PM 710 Views
Wait what's the difference? ? - 07/11/2011 09:06:06 PM 738 Views
Re: Wait what's the difference? ? - 07/11/2011 09:06:23 PM 787 Views
Re: Wait what's the difference? Isaac - 07/11/2011 09:09:04 PM 767 Views
I oh got confused. ? - 08/11/2011 02:41:46 AM 831 Views
That is not the case against Kronin. ranagrande - 07/11/2011 09:48:52 PM 653 Views
I don't think substitution is enough Isaac - 07/11/2011 10:25:27 PM 894 Views
is this gonna turn into that game where i got lynched thrice in one game but for ? instead? Yunalesca - 07/11/2011 10:24:15 PM 797 Views
I only allowed the replacement because it was asked on Day 1. Fanatic-Templar - 07/11/2011 10:50:55 PM 716 Views
Anybody else get a chuckle out of this? *NM* Hieshyn - 07/11/2011 06:36:28 PM 397 Views
Ignore the *NM* *NM* Hieshyn - 07/11/2011 06:43:16 PM 407 Views
doubly so... Isaac - 07/11/2011 06:49:05 PM 915 Views
out of what? *NM* Yunalesca - 07/11/2011 07:51:06 PM 393 Views
you have to go into the messege like i said ignore the *NM* prompt *NM* Hieshyn - 07/11/2011 08:54:22 PM 351 Views
Shrug, I think we should still get a roleclaim from ?/Kronin beetnemesis - 08/11/2011 01:51:24 PM 868 Views
I coded a claim above...in response to Isaac I think... ? - 08/11/2011 08:46:07 PM 805 Views
Re: I coded a claim above...in response to Isaac I think... Fox and Ravens - 08/11/2011 09:39:45 PM 862 Views
Re: I coded a claim above...in response to Isaac I think... ? - 08/11/2011 10:18:51 PM 661 Views
Heh. Die? Die! His username makes that weird. *NM* Kronin al'Sulc - 08/11/2011 10:55:22 PM 449 Views
eh Yunalesca - 08/11/2011 10:40:47 PM 835 Views
What am I missing here? Fox and Ravens - 08/11/2011 02:32:14 PM 842 Views
Re: What am I missing here? ? - 08/11/2011 08:38:19 PM 874 Views
Semi-RBIRL Isaac - 09/11/2011 05:26:11 AM 766 Views
Vote: Beetnemesis Isaac - 09/11/2011 10:24:06 PM 938 Views
RC decode Isaac - 09/11/2011 10:35:52 PM 913 Views
Bah, now I have to claim as well ranagrande - 09/11/2011 10:46:37 PM 792 Views
All right, let's proceed sanely then Isaac - 09/11/2011 10:51:12 PM 792 Views
OK, Unvote ranagrande - 09/11/2011 11:23:35 PM 690 Views
decoding: ranagrande - 09/11/2011 11:22:31 PM 831 Views
Would you mind walking through that last step? Isaac - 09/11/2011 11:44:30 PM 798 Views
Not at all. ranagrande - 10/11/2011 12:09:09 AM 793 Views
Okay I confirm your decode then Isaac - 10/11/2011 12:16:22 AM 765 Views
... *NM* beetnemesis - 10/11/2011 01:59:58 PM 495 Views
Woah. Problems. ? - 09/11/2011 11:32:40 PM 729 Views
there is something really fishy going on... *NM* Yunalesca - 09/11/2011 11:34:09 PM 408 Views
Hmm...You mention me a lot in that post...Was that me as ? or me as Kronin? I'm a tad confused. ? - 09/11/2011 11:28:55 PM 924 Views
I'm only talking about you as you are now, Kronin's sub Isaac - 09/11/2011 11:56:19 PM 818 Views
what? Yunalesca - 09/11/2011 11:32:45 PM 620 Views
Re: what? ? - 09/11/2011 11:34:16 PM 668 Views
Actually, there's a strong chance neither is lying Isaac - 09/11/2011 11:53:35 PM 972 Views
So, what now? Isaac - 10/11/2011 12:49:12 AM 1063 Views
Is or Is Not a Cop (Table) Isaac - 10/11/2011 12:52:52 AM 824 Views
I am not a cop. *NM* ? - 10/11/2011 01:04:38 AM 328 Views
I'm the daycop. Vote: Ranagrande. Fox and Ravens - 10/11/2011 01:41:59 AM 776 Views
EBWOP: here's the code. Fox and Ravens - 10/11/2011 01:43:00 AM 648 Views
Decode confirmed Isaac - 10/11/2011 02:08:26 AM 654 Views
Yeah, forgot to say I used Vignere. *NM* Fox and Ravens - 10/11/2011 02:18:31 AM 403 Views
EBWOP again Fox and Ravens - 10/11/2011 01:44:04 AM 623 Views
Stand by for the moment Isaac - 10/11/2011 01:49:38 AM 817 Views
Jesus...I REALLY need to read everything before I start posting. Fox and Ravens - 10/11/2011 01:54:11 AM 801 Views
Add to that the next follow up, that ? might previously have been a Day Cop too Isaac - 10/11/2011 02:04:29 AM 836 Views
It's possible... Fox and Ravens - 10/11/2011 02:18:02 AM 765 Views
Re: It's possible... Isaac - 10/11/2011 02:30:00 AM 1103 Views
I am a daycop. I found Isaac innocent. *NM* beetnemesis - 10/11/2011 02:02:05 PM 441 Views
We still need you role decode *NM* Isaac - 10/11/2011 06:19:53 PM 371 Views
(I did, in my other message) beetnemesis - 10/11/2011 07:18:43 PM 616 Views
Okay, got ya, decode confirmed *NM* Isaac - 10/11/2011 08:02:55 PM 385 Views
i am a cop Yunalesca - 10/11/2011 07:00:14 PM 634 Views
and my decode Yunalesca - 10/11/2011 07:14:38 PM 806 Views
Yep, decode confirmed *NM* Isaac - 10/11/2011 08:06:16 PM 455 Views
Also, which ? did you check? Isaac - 10/11/2011 08:08:05 PM 720 Views
original ? Yunalesca - 10/11/2011 08:10:30 PM 823 Views
Thanks *NM* Isaac - 10/11/2011 08:11:13 PM 365 Views
Not a cop *NM* Hieshyn - 10/11/2011 11:48:27 PM 621 Views
To the decode-mobile! *plays 60s Batman music* Stephen - 11/11/2011 02:32:06 PM 706 Views
Let's take another look at that poem Isaac - 10/11/2011 01:44:36 AM 893 Views
Ah, I was wondering how come there was suddenly thirty new posts in this thread. Fanatic-Templar - 10/11/2011 03:02:10 AM 620 Views
Hahaha I have to read all of these posts, but FT, you're insane. beetnemesis - 10/11/2011 01:58:01 PM 855 Views
FT IS insane. Turns out I was missing something after all. *NM* Fox and Ravens - 10/11/2011 09:59:56 PM 353 Views
OK! Here we go: beetnemesis - 10/11/2011 02:23:10 PM 866 Views
Re: OK! Here we go: Fox and Ravens - 10/11/2011 05:52:25 PM 935 Views
I think it's time to consider mass RC Isaac - 10/11/2011 08:15:36 PM 716 Views
Sure... ? - 10/11/2011 09:19:49 PM 993 Views
There's a lot of options still, and decode confirmed by the way Isaac - 10/11/2011 09:48:05 PM 963 Views
I have been nominated! ranagrande - 10/11/2011 10:30:37 PM 839 Views
Thanks Isaac - 10/11/2011 10:36:36 PM 893 Views
My pleasure *NM* ranagrande - 10/11/2011 10:44:23 PM 334 Views
*NM* ? - 10/11/2011 11:21:59 PM 374 Views
Not saying that that is right of course... ? - 10/11/2011 11:23:23 PM 799 Views
Hmm... ? - 10/11/2011 11:20:50 PM 682 Views
I totally agree. Fox and Ravens - 10/11/2011 09:54:25 PM 703 Views
The wasy I see it, anybody not claiming cop is going to get lynched Hieshyn - 10/11/2011 11:57:24 PM 881 Views
Lying and claiming cop when you can't decode your RC will get you lynched faster. *NM* Fox and Ravens - 11/11/2011 12:33:05 AM 374 Views
Which I didn't do *NM* Hieshyn - 11/11/2011 02:05:30 AM 416 Views
I know, I know. Fox and Ravens - 11/11/2011 03:57:51 AM 698 Views
Fox, did you get a response on your investigation? *NM* beetnemesis - 11/11/2011 12:20:12 AM 467 Views
I hadn't performed one yet. Fox and Ravens - 11/11/2011 12:34:48 AM 793 Views
Isaac Hieshyn - 11/11/2011 02:00:18 AM 902 Views
Or me Hieshyn - 11/11/2011 02:07:10 AM 816 Views
I'd recommend ? ranagrande - 11/11/2011 02:15:24 AM 676 Views
Bring it. ? - 11/11/2011 03:10:14 AM 716 Views
Someone who has already been copped beetnemesis - 11/11/2011 03:57:08 AM 661 Views
I'll investigate ? because yuna's the other daycop Fox and Ravens - 11/11/2011 04:00:49 AM 673 Views
Wait a minute....I meant that I would be testing it against rana. Not yuna Fox and Ravens - 11/11/2011 01:39:16 PM 937 Views
no i'm not, im a normal cop *NM* Yunalesca - 11/11/2011 09:18:23 PM 446 Views
I had everything messed up anyway *NM* Fox and Ravens - 12/11/2011 10:45:54 PM 388 Views
Vote: Beetnemisis/RBIRL Hieshyn - 11/11/2011 02:04:35 AM 745 Views
Hey people sorry for the unexpected RBIRL Stephen - 11/11/2011 11:47:11 AM 906 Views
RBIRL here too. Fox and Ravens - 11/11/2011 01:34:45 PM 651 Views
I'm thinking either Hieshyn or ? beetnemesis - 11/11/2011 04:32:16 PM 800 Views
It kinda seems like Hieshyn and ? are our logical lynch targets, plus Cop (Table) Isaac - 11/11/2011 10:09:52 PM 1015 Views
Fox investigated ? and found him innocent *NM* ranagrande - 11/11/2011 10:41:39 PM 372 Views
Vote: ? ranagrande - 11/11/2011 10:46:43 PM 675 Views
I'm down with voting for ?, as long as everyone is clear on what our night actions should be beetnemesis - 12/11/2011 04:49:53 AM 798 Views
Yeah, that seems logical next step, Vote: ? Isaac - 13/11/2011 02:59:25 AM 991 Views
mrr, vote ? then *NM* Yunalesca - 13/11/2011 10:27:49 AM 549 Views
Think my vote was on ? already. Stephen - 13/11/2011 04:26:49 PM 786 Views
Vote: ? *NM* beetnemesis - 14/11/2011 02:27:20 AM 489 Views
That should be lynch with yours, so... Isaac - 14/11/2011 03:07:36 AM 726 Views
? Has been lynched Fanatic-Templar - 14/11/2011 03:50:31 AM 878 Views
Game ends. Fanatic-Templar - 14/11/2011 10:25:04 PM 757 Views
Role list: Fanatic-Templar - 14/11/2011 10:26:32 PM 802 Views
Jeeez. Fox and Ravens - 14/11/2011 11:43:47 PM 764 Views
Kronin originally RC as a Tracker so we might have done better if we had been able to continue *NM* Hieshyn - 15/11/2011 12:06:07 AM 386 Views
Not even cause tracker is still the odd man out. Fox and Ravens - 15/11/2011 12:20:17 AM 756 Views
That might have worked but everyone would have had targets Isaac - 15/11/2011 02:20:43 AM 849 Views
Maybe, but I still would have known he was guilty. *NM* ranagrande - 15/11/2011 02:55:43 AM 351 Views
You were paranoid, amusingly enough. Fanatic-Templar - 15/11/2011 02:59:43 AM 771 Views
Ya there was no hope for us *NM* Hieshyn - 15/11/2011 12:04:06 AM 393 Views
YAY! Yunalesca - 14/11/2011 10:48:54 PM 746 Views
Yeah the way I see it, we were doomed before we started. *NM* ? - 14/11/2011 11:53:37 PM 531 Views
Wow. *NM* Kronin al'Sulc - 15/11/2011 01:09:28 AM 455 Views
Also I would like to be added to the list of future Moderator Hieshyn - 15/11/2011 12:07:51 AM 633 Views
You'd have first dibs via our order of precedence system Isaac - 15/11/2011 02:05:04 AM 886 Views
Also whoever Mods should probably post a recruitment thread on some other NBs Isaac - 15/11/2011 02:50:02 AM 805 Views
I expect my next game to draw in some new players. ranagrande - 15/11/2011 02:58:59 AM 761 Views
More is better, okay that would be Hieshyn or Beet then, unless ? wants to toss in Isaac - 15/11/2011 03:26:25 AM 747 Views
Nope I'm not ready to mod yet... ? - 15/11/2011 08:29:24 PM 686 Views
hey Yunalesca - 15/11/2011 09:46:28 PM 616 Views
I don't have anything prepared, so if Hieshyn wants it, I'll be happy to go after him beetnemesis - 15/11/2011 03:28:40 AM 778 Views
It's Hieshyn's if he wants it, otherwise I can go next. ranagrande - 15/11/2011 12:40:13 PM 810 Views
I'm not ready to go next Hieshyn - 15/11/2011 02:43:07 PM 875 Views
Aight, I think it's me then. ranagrande - 15/11/2011 03:15:21 PM 643 Views
Re: Aight, I think it's me then. Fox and Ravens - 15/11/2011 04:09:07 PM 838 Views
Deathless Mafia? Is that a thing? SQUEE, Mistborn! *NM* beetnemesis - 15/11/2011 10:15:49 PM 354 Views
If it wasn't a thing before, it is now! *NM* ranagrande - 15/11/2011 10:53:14 PM 346 Views
ooooh Yunalesca - 15/11/2011 11:27:26 PM 684 Views
You've got a week to read the last 2....GO, GO, GO!! *NM* Fox and Ravens - 15/11/2011 11:43:21 PM 373 Views
hah! i could read both in two days Yunalesca - 16/11/2011 07:56:58 PM 712 Views
Just for you, the game shall be spoiler free! *NM* ranagrande - 16/11/2011 12:12:24 AM 343 Views
Speaking of which, any timeline yet? Isaac - 19/11/2011 07:25:11 PM 708 Views
Sounds fantastic Stephen - 16/11/2011 12:10:06 AM 846 Views
That could also be fantastic. *NM* ranagrande - 16/11/2011 12:13:29 AM 389 Views
I AM ALL SORTS OF PUMPED. *NM* Kronin al'Sulc - 16/11/2011 09:11:38 PM 414 Views
Though may or may not actually be playing... *NM* Kronin al'Sulc - 16/11/2011 09:11:58 PM 355 Views
Before the next game starts, we probably need to discuss RC coding Isaac - 15/11/2011 02:15:27 AM 984 Views
Yeah, I really didn't like that idea. Fanatic-Templar - 15/11/2011 02:58:21 AM 1066 Views
An informal agreement is probably the way to go then Isaac - 15/11/2011 03:08:17 AM 879 Views
Although really, it's the same as if in IRL everyone just wrote down their role on a piece of paper beetnemesis - 15/11/2011 03:28:00 AM 794 Views
Yeah, I don't think it warrants being banned (hence why I didn't), but I don't like it. *NM* Fanatic-Templar - 15/11/2011 03:37:59 AM 438 Views
Re: An informal agreement is probably the way to go then Fanatic-Templar - 15/11/2011 03:36:38 AM 778 Views
Re: An informal agreement is probably the way to go then Isaac - 15/11/2011 03:43:39 AM 1121 Views
I really didn't like it either. Kronin al'Sulc - 16/11/2011 06:20:33 PM 767 Views
I liked my plan: Random voting ftw! *NM* Fox and Ravens - 16/11/2011 06:29:07 PM 391 Views
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