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About bidding Isaac Send a noteboard - 13/01/2011 01:03:40 PM
Since I have a few moments of rare morning time free and I can't feed my normal news junkie habit on the current depressing headlines, let's take a moment to discuss a good bid philosophy.

Ranagrande's analysis about stock vs bribe is a dead ringer for bidding principles. It's pretty much a good idea to bid on everything, this is no prob for me, typing in 20 or 30 3-4 digit numbers per player per week means about 1 minute per player. If something goes for less than it's LiqVal plus Round Income you got a deal, you can just liquidate it at the top of the next round and turn a small profit if it doesn't meet into your personal expansion plans. So there's really no reason to ever bid less then about 20% above min bid on any standard asset or luxury, or stock.

Now, as for planets and miscellanous stuff like heroes or electors, I really have no idea what electors are worth, Planets just have that min value so if someone uber-over bids I have some value to liquidate their planet for, you can't voluntarily liquidate a planet. The MBs for those are simply 1, 2, and 3000 MS, those are insanely low. Parmentier, on our outcry bid right now, should retail at well over 6000 MS. It's a rich world, meaning it comes with 2d6+10 x100 MS income, or 1700 MS avg, roughly 3 times a standard asset with LiqVal 2000. It also grants 4 votes, and electors have been going at about 300 a vote, so figure it's worth about 3 of the minor standard assets and one weak elector, about 8-9000 MS by current rates... now it also comes with only one location and 3 militia. Locations are a hindrance, they can be attacked and have to be defended, so 3 standard assets and an elector have 4 times the land to guard. You have a Base BS of 5 and 3 militia you already are at an 8, throw in 3 legions and your at a BS of 14, nigh invincible at this stage of the game.

Let's look at this strictly as being worth exactly 5 rounds of income and ignore the votes and say it goes average... 1700x5 or 8500 MS, and you'll guard it with 3 legions

Recruit and transfer 3 legions - cost 3300 MS
Seize def score of 14
8500-3300 = 5200 MS

Compare that to the same for 3 ore mines each with one militia and getting one legion, BS 5 (nobody obviously has a Seizure score of 5 since its an odd number but raids and all, decent average too)

1800x5= 9000
Seize defense score of 8
9000-3300= 5700

but no votes and those 3 mines can be picked off by a note particularly dedicated attacker, having an attack score of 9 isn't too hard for a player with a combat of 4

One of the reasons I think Diplomacy might be too weak and will probably introduce a diplomacy based revenue bonus to replace the current diplo elector/planet bonus, once I've figure dout how that can best function, like vote total x diplo score times some amount of cash, maybe 15 MS, so a dip 4 player with 20 votes would get 1200 MS a round, that would seem to rebalance it, I just need to determine X, where X is some value between 5 and 20 MS, the just Inc=DxVxX, I hate midgame rule tinkering but I hate unbalanced games more :P Players are welcome to suggest what X be, and X iteself need not be a constant value, it could be something like 20-Rd# or 10+Rd# or even Inc=(D+2)xVxX, the spreadsheet does the math, not me, I just don't want anything weird enough I couldn't handcrank it in an emergency or players couldn't predict their own without being math-skilled. Figure that change along with the Grudge rules coming in during round 3, I'd rather do all revision in one big heap and the more game play I can see the better I can see flaws.

Anyway, it might behoove players to discuss how much something is really worth so they have an idea where to bid on things, that's part of the purpose of Outcry bids, to give a faster more interactive source of info on perceived value. I say perceived because especially this early in the game system nobody really knows, figure by late rounds or future games there will be a general 'standard', likely down to a couple hundred MS, that anything is worth to an average player. Most players are basically striking blind right now, and I can't help too much since I have only whatever guess-timating edge a deeper familiarity with the rules grants.
The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift.
- Albert Einstein

King of Cairhien 20-7-2
Chancellor of the Landsraad, Archduke of Is'Mod
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Dune: Round 2 - 11/01/2011 03:33:07 AM 1228 Views
Crisis - 11/01/2011 03:33:39 AM 771 Views
Forecast - 11/01/2011 03:34:03 AM 742 Views
Auction Log and Results - 11/01/2011 03:34:21 AM 962 Views
Player Vote Tracker - 11/01/2011 03:34:38 AM 798 Views
Votes! Grand Ball and Chancellor's Challenge have been passed - 11/01/2011 05:06:36 PM 860 Views
Pirate Vote Tracker - 13/01/2011 07:41:42 PM 672 Views
Court Gossip Log - 11/01/2011 03:35:11 AM 919 Views
Incidentally... - 12/01/2011 05:50:01 AM 908 Views
CHOAM Auction Round 2 Phase 1 - 11/01/2011 03:35:53 AM 900 Views
E2B - Agricultural Fief - 1 Militia (Min Bid 2000 MS, Inc 50 MS) - 11/01/2011 04:17:53 AM 868 Views
2000 MS - Edited because of mistype, read 200 MS originally. *NM* - 11/01/2011 11:33:08 PM 616 Views
2050 MS *NM* - 13/01/2011 01:58:12 AM 377 Views
2100 MS *NM* - 13/01/2011 11:38:52 AM 467 Views
EDIT: 2100 MS - Invalid bid, my stupidity - 13/01/2011 11:43:24 AM 750 Views
Wait, what is 9 PM EST time in GMT +2? this one closed before my second bid, right? *NM* - 13/01/2011 11:40:26 AM 398 Views
I checked it. thats 4 AM my time. - 13/01/2011 11:42:50 AM 695 Views
Ouch - 13/01/2011 12:17:33 PM 701 Views
Too bad we don't have a chat room- that'd be perfect for outcry *NM* - 13/01/2011 04:47:34 PM 871 Views
Rich Planet - Parmentier, Min Bid 3000 MS, 50 MS increment - 11/01/2011 04:20:34 AM 925 Views
3000 MS *NM* - 11/01/2011 02:26:00 PM 441 Views
3100 MS *NM* - 11/01/2011 03:13:03 PM 421 Views
3300 MS *NM* - 11/01/2011 04:00:49 PM 486 Views
3350 MS *NM* - 11/01/2011 10:58:22 PM 426 Views
3400 MS *NM* - 11/01/2011 11:30:49 PM 496 Views
3450 MS *NM* - 12/01/2011 12:50:32 AM 494 Views
Pah, minimum bids. 3600 MS *NM* - 12/01/2011 02:28:44 AM 508 Views
They're pretty abitrary for non-LiqVal items *NM* - 12/01/2011 02:56:49 AM 447 Views
I think he was just Pahing the fact that we're bidding the minimum increments *NM* - 12/01/2011 02:34:42 PM 496 Views
Quite probably - this seems a good point to mentioning Horizontal scroll in bidding wars - 12/01/2011 02:59:56 PM 700 Views
But I like horizontal scroll! *NM* - 12/01/2011 03:13:41 PM 456 Views
Exactly. I'm trying to destroy the status quo. - 13/01/2011 06:06:18 AM 730 Views
3650 MS *NM* - 12/01/2011 07:47:15 AM 500 Views
3700 MS *NM* - 12/01/2011 02:33:41 PM 437 Views
3750 MS *NM* - 12/01/2011 04:23:05 PM 458 Views
3850 MS *NM* - 12/01/2011 07:04:46 PM 413 Views
3900 MS *NM* - 13/01/2011 01:57:57 AM 375 Views
Cut that out! 4400 MS! *NM* - 13/01/2011 06:17:52 AM 365 Views
I'm tempted to offer 4450... But not now. - 13/01/2011 11:35:00 AM 781 Views
I will though. 4450 MS. *NM* - 13/01/2011 02:18:03 PM 469 Views
4500 MS *NM* - 13/01/2011 04:04:46 PM 390 Views
HZ scroll - last bid 4500 *NM* - 13/01/2011 06:29:59 PM 476 Views
4550 MS *NM* - 14/01/2011 11:46:43 PM 467 Views
Round 1 Phase 1 has begun - 11/01/2011 04:57:21 AM 755 Views
Let's look at forecasts - 12/01/2011 04:24:46 AM 1085 Views
Court Gossip - 11/01/2011 05:40:30 AM 811 Views
Vote: Hold Grand Ball *NM* - 11/01/2011 02:27:56 PM 435 Views
Vote: Hold Grand Ball *NM* - 11/01/2011 04:09:16 PM 472 Views
Vote: Hold Grand Ball *NM* - 11/01/2011 05:05:51 PM 465 Views
Vote: Hold Grand Ball *NM* - 11/01/2011 11:32:35 PM 465 Views
Hmmm. Debate? - 11/01/2011 05:20:59 PM 723 Views
Yeaah - 11/01/2011 05:47:12 PM 791 Views
Re: Yeaah - 11/01/2011 06:23:44 PM 786 Views
Well, as for the Crisis- is everyone pretty firm in what they're voting for? Dunno if I am - 12/01/2011 05:45:11 AM 707 Views
Well I wouldn't mind listening to some persuasive arguments, if anybody has some to offer. - 12/01/2011 05:51:48 AM 757 Views
This crisis is a no-brainer. - 12/01/2011 03:12:21 PM 750 Views
Good analysis. - 12/01/2011 04:06:20 PM 695 Views
Court Gossip - Chancellor’s Challenge - 12/01/2011 09:20:43 AM 1117 Views
Vote: Accept Chancellor’s Challenge *NM* - 12/01/2011 02:31:59 PM 454 Views
Vote: Accept Challenge *NM* - 12/01/2011 04:06:51 PM 391 Views
Vote: Accept Chancellor's Challenge. (Erm...?) - 12/01/2011 05:46:38 PM 746 Views
I was attacked by the Bandits of Surewood Forest - 12/01/2011 07:08:16 PM 761 Views
I think "pirates" just means "NPC raiders" - 12/01/2011 07:35:04 PM 652 Views
According to Court Gossip, it would be the Brigands of Bendar - 12/01/2011 09:45:36 PM 757 Views
I was attacked by the Brigands of Bendar last night. - 13/01/2011 07:17:27 PM 686 Views
Vote: Accept Chancellor's Challenge. *NM* - 12/01/2011 07:05:23 PM 494 Views
Vote: Accept Challenge *NM* - 12/01/2011 08:08:48 PM 454 Views
Pirate Name: Pirates of Carib Ion Sea *NM* - 12/01/2011 09:51:25 PM 425 Views
(Others should do this, too) - 13/01/2011 07:31:09 AM 684 Views
I thought that as Adjutant General you could simply report our conclusions. *NM* - 14/01/2011 06:02:38 AM 433 Views
4 players have to "confirm" the names HINT HINT - 14/01/2011 08:21:23 AM 626 Views
Yeah, I did so below. I was explaining why I didn't do so earlier. *NM* - 14/01/2011 07:15:00 PM 465 Views
"Pirate Name: Pirates of Carib Ion Sea" Yes, 4 of you have to do this for each pirate group *NM* - 14/01/2011 04:05:29 AM 393 Views
Pirate Name: Pirates of Carib Ion Sea *NM* - 14/01/2011 05:33:45 AM 430 Views
Pirate Name: Bandits of Surewood Forest *NM* - 14/01/2011 05:34:11 AM 397 Views
Pirate Name: Brigands of Bendar *NM* - 14/01/2011 05:34:38 AM 445 Views
Pirate Name: Brigands of Bendar *NM* - 14/01/2011 01:53:23 PM 458 Views
Pirate Name: Bandits of Surewood Forest *NM* - 14/01/2011 01:53:03 PM 422 Views
Pirate Name: Pirates of Carib Ion Sea *NM* - 14/01/2011 01:52:43 PM 421 Views
Pirate Name: Pirates of Carib Ion Sea - 14/01/2011 06:47:25 PM 699 Views
I think that makes 4 of us for every name. - 15/01/2011 12:02:20 AM 749 Views
Oh, he already has. Nevermind then. - 15/01/2011 12:03:30 AM 902 Views
CHOAM Auction Round 2 Phase 1 - 13/01/2011 02:13:36 AM 845 Views
All reports out now - 13/01/2011 03:08:33 AM 668 Views
Court Gossip - 13/01/2011 04:18:26 AM 680 Views
About bidding - 13/01/2011 01:03:40 PM 898 Views
Pirate Name: Brigands of Bendar *NM* - 13/01/2011 07:40:53 PM 480 Views
Pirate Name: Bandits of Surewood Forest *NM* - 14/01/2011 05:48:23 AM 443 Views
Battle Plans - 14/01/2011 02:44:01 PM 716 Views
As for the money... (and a couple other things) - 14/01/2011 06:05:04 PM 744 Views
I agree with this arrangement. *NM* - 14/01/2011 07:14:16 PM 553 Views
Weird. I thought I replied to this. Hm. Anyway, I could attack one of the pirate Strongholds. *NM* - 14/01/2011 08:17:00 PM 432 Views
Cool. I can get another one. *NM* - 14/01/2011 09:42:53 PM 450 Views
I'll get the third. *NM* - 14/01/2011 10:32:02 PM 398 Views
So yeah, we need 3 volunteers with decent Diplomacy/Intrigue stats - 14/01/2011 09:43:58 PM 703 Views
As stated above, I will be one of them - 15/01/2011 12:54:44 AM 759 Views
So is anyone else investigating pirates? - 16/01/2011 02:28:06 AM 779 Views
I guess I could do one. *NM* - 16/01/2011 02:43:05 AM 431 Views
Which group do you want? - 16/01/2011 04:41:04 AM 703 Views
Late Auction Results - 15/01/2011 02:26:03 AM 782 Views
Looming Crises - Round Ends 9 PM EST Sunday - 15/01/2011 02:27:48 AM 864 Views
Some More Notes - 15/01/2011 03:47:59 AM 704 Views
I'd be all for condensing it into one auction phase - 15/01/2011 04:07:56 AM 771 Views
It'd be fairer for players like Bergioyn who aren't present near the deadline though. - 15/01/2011 04:18:19 AM 750 Views
I think a better solution would be to randomize the deadlines - 15/01/2011 04:47:43 AM 732 Views
That's true enough. *NM* - 15/01/2011 04:56:09 AM 396 Views
That's a possibility - 15/01/2011 05:32:55 AM 678 Views
Hm... - 15/01/2011 07:13:06 AM 780 Views
Okay, expected changes - 15/01/2011 05:29:31 AM 811 Views
Probably a short delay on processing - 16/01/2011 10:37:39 PM 669 Views

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