I merely wanted an appraisal of your confidence in their trustworthiness in case you turned out to be innocent after all. I assume they are guiltless unless you turn out innocent, it was merely a contingency plan. Unfortunately, it didn't help much, but then I don't think it'll matter, since I am confident in your guilt.
I can't help but point out that you just posted all those options in detail here
Let's look at some of your other falsheoods, both the outright and those by ommision.
You've claimed that there is a tangible difference to you between my suggesting a no lynch and voting for it, but you did it here
In that comment, in response to my saying that "...Insofar as the reason to vote no lynch instead of waiting for the deadline is to avoid wasting time and shedding bored players... a situation we clearly have here, you even say that I've favored it as a mod. I do, and you know and have shown that you know, that I do. That you dislike no lynches, does not change that I consider them the more pro-game solution than double-modkill or game death by inactivity. This is no secret, we've discussed many a time that even as a DF I will take risky action designed to keep people posting even if it draws eyes on me. I place game continuity above victory in individual games, and you know this, yet you lie outright when you say that in your eyes theirs a votable difference between suggesting and casting a vote to no lynch and you lie by omission when you imply I must have purely victory motives in mind for my actions. You also spin, because you've not explained how this scummy action I took would benefit me, you line up a series of rationales, all of which have improbable logic behind them, and say if all these are true then Isaac is scum, and when I countered them, you did not counter, you accused me of obfuscation.
Let's take another example:
He asks "Is it out of ordinary for me, as town or scum, to worry about third party kills and to seek out third parties?" because the real question would be "Is it out of the ordinary for me, as town or scum, to deliberately not even try to find mafia?" And the answer is of course yes. Look at previous games, have you even seen Isaac say something to the effect of "I don't think we should will find mafia today, nor do I think we should even try"? And yet that's what he did with that serial killer chase.
You accuse me of the very thing you are doing. Your counter question "Is it out of the ordinary for me, as town or scum, to deliberately not even try to find mafia?" twists my original question, because in your form, seeking a third party is equal to ignoring a threat, as though pursuing a lynch on DF 1 proves I'm a scummer because I didn't pursue DF 2 while hunting DF 1. You then say in previous games I didn't said something, putting it in quotes, but you say 'something like' and provide no reference to it. But you leave out that I never said any such thing yesterday, I said the scum were shapeshifters and would match their character claims, and thus wouldn't be locatable by our character claims table, but a SK might be, this truthful and logical comment you are aware is both you then lift out of context as proof of perfidy... a lie by ommision, you never challenge the actual comment, you never even reference it, maybe because in context it is not an indicator of guilt at all?
The actual quote:
All right, so anyway, I do unsurprisingly have plots and schemes afoot but at the moment most have not yet reached 'the proper time', so I will focus on one particular avenue, which in this case was sort of a 'SK gambit'
Going into this it seemed a safe bet that our bad guys are shapechangers and already have a legitimate ID and knew they did, likely as major characters. One of them might have lied about all 4, but probably not, they likely listed their 'real' fake identity. I'm betting everyone did.
Let us assume for the moment that any role powers someone has are appropriate to their character. Now let us assume we have a vig or SK, knowing Beet, he wouldn't assign this role to a character that followed the Comics Code, which amongst other things doesn't let good guys kill people pretty much ever. I haven't done a definitive scouring of characters yet, but the perosn who most stuck out was WF, he had:
skip analysis
Anyway, that's my first thoughts, focusing in on a probable SK/vig isn't exactly ideal but realistically killing off a SK (and arguably a vig) on day 1 is preferable to catching a single scummer, since it eliminates a whole NK. And yes, I know I'm not very objective about vigs but I'll remind everyone that they have a a horrible track record with us, BA was the first vig to whack a non-townie and that was after he tried to whack the town doc, by and large our SK's and scummers have a better track record of killing off rival scummers than the vigs have. But again, there are a handful of major characters who I think would be obvious vig material, The Punisher being the blatant example, but plent yof more obvious vig candidates beside Deadpool, who is practically the poster-child for insanely homicidal third party guy.
Anyway, that's my first thoughts on it.
And yeah, to save the eventual comment, this is exactly what I'd be saying if I was the Evil Skrull Leader, I'm not, a general desire to do away with SK's and cultists is a trait I possess both when town and DF.
Going into this it seemed a safe bet that our bad guys are shapechangers and already have a legitimate ID and knew they did, likely as major characters. One of them might have lied about all 4, but probably not, they likely listed their 'real' fake identity. I'm betting everyone did.
Let us assume for the moment that any role powers someone has are appropriate to their character. Now let us assume we have a vig or SK, knowing Beet, he wouldn't assign this role to a character that followed the Comics Code, which amongst other things doesn't let good guys kill people pretty much ever. I haven't done a definitive scouring of characters yet, but the perosn who most stuck out was WF, he had:
skip analysis
Anyway, that's my first thoughts, focusing in on a probable SK/vig isn't exactly ideal but realistically killing off a SK (and arguably a vig) on day 1 is preferable to catching a single scummer, since it eliminates a whole NK. And yes, I know I'm not very objective about vigs but I'll remind everyone that they have a a horrible track record with us, BA was the first vig to whack a non-townie and that was after he tried to whack the town doc, by and large our SK's and scummers have a better track record of killing off rival scummers than the vigs have. But again, there are a handful of major characters who I think would be obvious vig material, The Punisher being the blatant example, but plent yof more obvious vig candidates beside Deadpool, who is practically the poster-child for insanely homicidal third party guy.
Anyway, that's my first thoughts on it.
And yeah, to save the eventual comment, this is exactly what I'd be saying if I was the Evil Skrull Leader, I'm not, a general desire to do away with SK's and cultists is a trait I possess both when town and DF.
Now, you would attempt on day 1, and later today as well, to say that it was a sign of my guilt that I'd suggest such a path, yet as I pointed out, and you never rebutted, that claim was based off an underlying assumption I would have to do it without knowing it was a scummer tell, the original accusation puts the claim to bed, as the bolded text indicates. So I accidentally dropped proof I was scummer in the very same message I outright say it could be seen that way. That makes no sense, and yet by accusing me from a set off comments in which it was impossible to miss my saying that, you once again lift something clearly out of context in a fashion that can not be an accident. "Knowingly Presenting False Evidence" is, some might say, not particularly pro-town
Let's go to your next one, in your original accusations on me that caused this avalanche:
He says "Led a lynch on an innocent townie? BlackAdder, Check." and tries to equate this with his serial killer hunt, leaving out that they are completely different - in BlackAdder's case, he was trying to catch a ninja and failed. In White Flame's case, he was not trying to find a Skrull and succeeded in not finding one. He tries to compare killing a townie by mistake to killing a townie by intent.
Again, utter word game, and real ironic when your whole point is to accuse me of doing that. In BlackAdders case, I was trying to find a scummer and failed. In WF's case, I was trying to find a scummer and failed, SK's a scummers. You ignore again the inconvenient truth that I'd already told everyone that going for a SK was not ideal but we had a decent lead and a SK is more dangeorus than a single scummer. Again, you use a flawed argument that translates as "This cop is clearly dirty and on the take because he ran past someone who was trying to steal a car while pursuing a murderer" it sounds reasonable to people only because there's a tag at the end 'Someone shot the fleeing murderer, ending the day, and he turned out to be innocent, it was not possible to go back for the car thief' and leaves out something really vital, I didn't run past someone stealing a car, I ran past when someone yelled 'He's stealing my car' and there was no sign of who 'he' was.
Next:
He asks irrelevant questions like "Is it out of ordinary for me, as town or scum, to accuse someone on day 1?" or "Is it out of ordinary for me, as town or scum, to drop a lynch I feel is not viable?" in an attempt to get people to get in an agreeable position. After all, it is perfectly accurate to say that these are not abnormal behaviours, nor are they anti-town, and he hopes that people will use them to get a good impression of him and forget what the real point was.
No supporting evidence of that claim, you just say 'irrelevant' and bypass it, but its pretty relevant and you know it. You use both the day 1 vote and the day 1 non-vote for ? as evidence against me originally, yet when I point outthat is normal, instead of ceding the point as a flaw in your original accusation, you ignore that it was part of your accusation and accuse me of obfuscation by pointing it out.
Next:
Isaac writes in an attempt to obfuscate the issue. The facts are plain and simple: in the span of two days, Isaac has deliberately voted to protect the mafia from lynching.
In a post that is loaded with spin and obfuscation, you accuse me of doing it the whole while, then say I deliberately voted to protect the mafia. Yet your sole evidence of such a vote is that I went after a probable SK, needless to say, that's hardly anti-town, but certainly no more anti-town then everyone who voted for the lynch without pursuing other leads. That's a far more obvious scummer tell, I tell people I don't think the lynch is viable anymore on day 1 and we need to pursue other leads, I suggest some, and WF gets whacked in a few hours. You avoid all mention of that aspect of things repeatedly, that an avalanche vote off my suggestion we pursue other routes is not only bizarre, but utterly smashes the 'SK as distraction' concept.
The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift.
- Albert Einstein
King of Cairhien 20-7-2
Chancellor of the Landsraad, Archduke of Is'Mod
- Albert Einstein
King of Cairhien 20-7-2
Chancellor of the Landsraad, Archduke of Is'Mod
RAFO Mafia 19: Superlative Crisis! ISSUE TWO: BLACK MAGIC- WHOA, MAN!
03/11/2010 04:59:59 AM
- 2592 Views
I see two avenues to discuss here
03/11/2010 11:41:14 AM
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I was thinking about number 1.
03/11/2010 10:00:57 PM
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Regarding 2, and let me suggets a 3
04/11/2010 02:30:41 AM
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I, personally, agree with Isaac so here goes.
04/11/2010 11:33:07 PM
- 808 Views
O.......K..........
05/11/2010 11:43:14 PM
- 785 Views
Did Fist use his power last Night?
06/11/2010 03:41:05 AM
- 823 Views
It's one of three plausible explanations for his death
06/11/2010 04:53:19 AM
- 810 Views
Re: It's one of three plausible explanations for his death
06/11/2010 05:30:00 PM
- 794 Views
Re: It's one of three plausible explanations for his death
06/11/2010 07:15:11 PM
- 845 Views
Re: It's one of three plausible explanations for his death
07/11/2010 08:18:16 AM
- 893 Views
Re: It's one of three plausible explanations for his death
07/11/2010 03:38:37 PM
- 846 Views
Re: It's one of three plausible explanations for his death
07/11/2010 06:42:10 PM
- 882 Views
Huh, well Fox straight up told us his Mason group was a 3rd Fraction on Night 1
11/11/2010 12:55:50 AM
- 845 Views
Re: It's one of three plausible explanations for his death
07/11/2010 06:16:29 PM
- 902 Views
Re: It's one of three plausible explanations for his death
07/11/2010 07:16:20 PM
- 837 Views
Re: It's one of three plausible explanations for his death
07/11/2010 09:29:12 PM
- 918 Views
I am about 95% sure that WF targeted me last Night.
11/11/2010 01:04:34 AM
- 811 Views
Interesting.
11/11/2010 02:25:07 AM
- 861 Views
It's certainly possible.
11/11/2010 02:39:00 AM
- 851 Views
Now I'm curious
11/11/2010 03:33:46 AM
- 891 Views
Presumably because I'm not trying to get her lynched.
11/11/2010 03:53:54 AM
- 889 Views
Yeah, I'm going with that #3 there.
04/11/2010 05:41:04 AM
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Re: Yeah, I'm going with that #3 there.
04/11/2010 04:18:17 PM
- 904 Views
a scummer got caught on day one in the tower game
04/11/2010 06:42:15 PM
- 871 Views
also there was that time someone said they saw a black light instead of white
04/11/2010 07:52:41 PM
- 876 Views
That was Hobo in DK's crossover game. *NM*
04/11/2010 08:16:07 PM
- 475 Views
You know we could just forget about that. I wouldn't complain. *NM*
05/11/2010 08:35:03 PM
- 519 Views
Hypocop? *NM*
03/11/2010 03:20:17 PM
- 527 Views
So help me I will spoil the entirety of ToM, people! (not just yet, though)
10/11/2010 02:51:46 AM
- 759 Views
I'm pretty sure if you do, you'll be lynched. *NM*
10/11/2010 09:19:43 PM
- 492 Views
Vote: No Lynch
13/11/2010 12:24:43 AM
- 863 Views
I am very much opposed to this idea
13/11/2010 02:04:27 PM
- 784 Views
Then offer an alternative
13/11/2010 11:10:42 PM
- 834 Views
Why is an inactive likely to be a townie?
14/11/2010 04:03:35 AM
- 765 Views
Re: Why is an inactive likely to be a townie?
14/11/2010 04:21:12 AM
- 849 Views
I had no RBIRL because my computer died.
14/11/2010 06:52:56 AM
- 744 Views
Ah, I see you did unvote. Very well. I still got my eye on you. *NM*
14/11/2010 06:55:30 AM
- 430 Views
LOL - I guess this is also my informal defense
14/11/2010 08:52:56 AM
- 834 Views
Saying it's not out-of-character to be scummy doesn't make you any less scummy.
14/11/2010 04:33:15 PM
- 864 Views
Watch the difference between what he says and what he is accused of.
14/11/2010 07:08:08 PM
- 723 Views
After this whole argument I've had with FT...
13/11/2010 11:42:32 PM
- 790 Views
People who vote for totally random lynches don't deserve to win
14/11/2010 03:43:14 AM
- 766 Views
Re: People who vote for totally random lynches don't deserve to win
14/11/2010 02:23:04 PM
- 939 Views
Vote: Isaac
13/11/2010 11:58:56 PM
- 877 Views
Re: Vote: Isaac
14/11/2010 03:02:15 AM
- 782 Views
Re: Vote: Isaac
14/11/2010 04:02:30 AM
- 867 Views
What was scummy?
14/11/2010 04:10:12 AM
- 896 Views
Re: What was scummy?
14/11/2010 05:41:44 AM
- 814 Views
Extrmely thin
14/11/2010 06:05:32 AM
- 970 Views
Actually...
14/11/2010 06:55:02 AM
- 873 Views
Re: Actually...
14/11/2010 07:44:33 AM
- 828 Views
Did you guys just blitz me?
14/11/2010 11:35:58 PM
- 858 Views
Your not hammered yet are you?
14/11/2010 11:46:29 PM
- 797 Views
I think I might be, can never be sure what votes are worth in a heavy role game
14/11/2010 11:50:51 PM
- 809 Views
I'm potentially alive on a technicality
15/11/2010 12:02:36 AM
- 714 Views
Why don't you go ahead and claim then?
15/11/2010 12:11:03 AM
- 804 Views
Sure
15/11/2010 12:34:34 AM
- 775 Views
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm...
15/11/2010 02:13:23 AM
- 876 Views
I think so.
15/11/2010 01:25:46 AM
- 784 Views
Also, I must confess...
15/11/2010 01:32:44 AM
- 792 Views
Re: Also, I must confess...
15/11/2010 01:58:26 AM
- 923 Views
Yes, I would expect so.
15/11/2010 02:22:06 AM
- 732 Views
Re: Yes, I would expect so.
15/11/2010 02:35:49 AM
- 839 Views
I'm unvoting only if the defence is really foolproof, since now no-one can hammer without instantly
15/11/2010 07:18:05 AM
- 817 Views
EBWOP - The "only" in the title is rebundant, it was part of different title I abandoned. *NM*
15/11/2010 07:19:46 AM
- 503 Views
I guess the first title stands afterall I won't automatically unvote just because none should hammer
15/11/2010 08:19:00 AM
- 724 Views
I'll try to help Isaac out a bit here.
15/11/2010 01:11:11 PM
- 688 Views
Thanks, and a question too
15/11/2010 01:30:17 PM
- 736 Views
Well, I'll unvote if the third mason comes forward too. *NM*
15/11/2010 03:30:36 PM
- 471 Views
Jeez, when it rains, it pours
15/11/2010 10:34:54 PM
- 700 Views
OK Isaac
15/11/2010 11:14:45 PM
- 758 Views
My Defense Posts
16/11/2010 04:16:41 AM
- 770 Views
Defense A: The Fantastic Four
16/11/2010 04:31:11 AM
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Defense B: The Numbers Game
16/11/2010 04:36:59 AM
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"What motive would a scummer have"?
16/11/2010 05:56:04 PM
- 772 Views
Without any further questions though?
16/11/2010 11:51:42 PM
- 825 Views
If you see an avalanche coming, you hop on board (NOT a metaphor).
17/11/2010 12:12:31 AM
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Defense C: The Intro Flavor
16/11/2010 04:41:31 AM
- 906 Views
Eh ...
16/11/2010 10:00:21 PM
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Re: Eh ...
17/11/2010 02:33:27 AM
- 815 Views
We'll take a look at that in turn, but first...
16/11/2010 07:01:22 AM
- 856 Views
Re: We'll take a look at that in turn, but first...
16/11/2010 01:40:21 PM
- 753 Views
Yes, that was it.
16/11/2010 09:05:04 PM
- 780 Views
Re: Yes, that was it.
17/11/2010 02:55:58 AM
- 801 Views
Not at all.
17/11/2010 03:04:50 AM
- 808 Views
Well, that's a borderline lie
17/11/2010 04:29:47 AM
- 860 Views
How do you figure?
17/11/2010 05:46:37 AM
- 757 Views
I'd say its pretty pertinent to my defense
17/11/2010 06:49:20 AM
- 748 Views
All right, fair enough.
17/11/2010 07:19:37 AM
- 874 Views
Thanks for whakcing me before going to bed
17/11/2010 07:39:58 AM
- 776 Views
By the way, I'd appreciate if no one had hammer till FT has a chance to reply and vice-versa
17/11/2010 07:46:18 AM
- 768 Views
I have evidence in favor of and yet against F-T's claim. Take it as you will.
17/11/2010 07:18:35 PM
- 847 Views
Slight EBWOP
17/11/2010 07:20:58 PM
- 850 Views
Re: Slight EBWOP
17/11/2010 07:24:34 PM
- 743 Views
Uh, that doesn't make a lot of sense
17/11/2010 07:22:59 PM
- 794 Views
That's fair. Sanity can actually be called into question now.
17/11/2010 07:26:34 PM
- 765 Views
Re: That's fair. Sanity can actually be called into question now.
17/11/2010 08:01:20 PM
- 845 Views
Actually that sounds a good plan
17/11/2010 08:06:50 PM
- 752 Views
Glad to hear you agree with yourself
17/11/2010 08:14:42 PM
- 855 Views
:/ Wanna mention this before I forget. Little niggling that's been bugging me.
17/11/2010 03:03:27 AM
- 773 Views
Ah yes, I noticed that as well
17/11/2010 04:08:15 AM
- 765 Views
I just caught that
17/11/2010 04:53:16 AM
- 884 Views
No, I don't mean Cop.
17/11/2010 05:29:36 AM
- 800 Views
Re: No, I don't mean Cop.
17/11/2010 05:34:46 AM
- 812 Views
I trust him because of the way he's been acting.
17/11/2010 06:30:26 PM
- 855 Views
Complete sidetrack.
17/11/2010 07:28:31 PM
- 868 Views
Re: Complete sidetrack.
17/11/2010 07:33:51 PM
- 753 Views
I can't seem to find the post about that arrangement we had, incidentally.
17/11/2010 05:38:53 AM
- 709 Views
Re: I can't seem to find the post about that arrangement we had, incidentally.
17/11/2010 06:04:08 AM
- 737 Views
Re: I can't seem to find the post about that arrangement we had, incidentally.
17/11/2010 06:25:05 AM
- 801 Views
Re: I can't seem to find the post about that arrangement we had, incidentally.
17/11/2010 06:50:04 AM
- 756 Views
In the interests of honesty, now would probably be a good time to mention ...
17/11/2010 09:22:14 PM
- 789 Views
What the balls?
17/11/2010 09:52:04 PM
- 799 Views
I still only see one way for this day to end
18/11/2010 02:02:03 PM
- 757 Views
Re: I still only see one way for this day to end
18/11/2010 03:18:50 PM
- 730 Views
Its probably the blind mason loyalty thing, but I'm inclined to trust Isaac.
18/11/2010 05:16:28 PM
- 930 Views
Re: Its probably the blind mason loyalty thing, but I'm inclined to trust Isaac.
18/11/2010 06:00:06 PM
- 777 Views
I'd also like to point out that we know nothing about you
18/11/2010 03:37:08 PM
- 748 Views
i don't know much about comics but
18/11/2010 05:45:10 PM
- 794 Views
Re: i don't know much about comics but
18/11/2010 05:49:54 PM
- 740 Views
They're also Marvel characters
18/11/2010 06:30:11 PM
- 801 Views
LOL, duly noted
18/11/2010 06:48:08 PM
- 817 Views
Beast is really surprisingly un-beastly.
18/11/2010 06:28:15 PM
- 825 Views
Sure
18/11/2010 06:42:01 PM
- 806 Views
Alright, to hell with this. Let's test F-T's sanity. Vote: Isaac *NM*
21/11/2010 08:29:53 PM
- 500 Views
Ah, the frustration vote, normally my best friend
21/11/2010 09:58:18 PM
- 782 Views
OK, here's a question for beet:
21/11/2010 10:37:08 PM
- 774 Views
You're not suggesting we lynch F-T instead of Isaac, are you?
21/11/2010 11:17:19 PM
- 778 Views
But we do get information
22/11/2010 12:17:20 AM
- 803 Views
<-- Btw, first time I got the hammer vote. My life is now complete. *NM*
22/11/2010 12:20:53 AM
- 481 Views
Well, congrats *NM*
22/11/2010 12:32:34 AM
- 510 Views
Since this is a first for both of us...
22/11/2010 12:35:29 AM
- 776 Views
When someone dies, you find out their role. "Psycho Cop" is a distinct role.
21/11/2010 11:22:50 PM
- 784 Views
Isaac wonders how he could be lynched without scum involvement...
22/11/2010 12:00:31 AM
- 742 Views
Re: Isaac wonders how he could be lynched without scum involvement...
22/11/2010 12:21:01 AM
- 853 Views
Isaac has been lynched!
22/11/2010 03:10:01 AM
- 691 Views
I can't help but feel a silver bullet would have been appropriate
22/11/2010 04:11:13 AM
- 675 Views
I find that astounding, considering the level of suspicion generally laid upon you *NM*
22/11/2010 04:16:04 AM
- 548 Views
I might just mount your head on my wall .
22/11/2010 05:09:45 AM
- 864 Views
I consider myself an integral part in this group.
22/11/2010 05:27:12 AM
- 846 Views