Active Users:1238 Time:23/11/2024 02:44:59 AM
Crypto tricks Isaac Send a noteboard - 20/09/2010 10:13:23 AM
Okay, I am slightly won over by this idea...not enough to endorse it and participate yet...but enough to want to know more details.


Its big advantage, I think, is that the DFs couldn't have anticipated this outcome, scummers who aren't otherwise suspected don't make up RC's on night 1 and share and criticize around because you've no idea who is what yet. What we'll do, if we go with the plan, is ask the less frequent posters to get there's up first - their code that is - just so if we end up waiting on someone, odds are most won't have posted theirs yet, minimizes risk, we don't really need to go in strict order, then, as soon as the last one is in, we start revealing our code keys, roughly in reverse order I think, the last poster doesn't even need to code, and anyone who thinks they'll have a very hard time using the coding tricks can request to go last. If 8 or 9 of us have posted our codes, little harm is done by having someone skip the code and just state their role. Everyone posts some clear code, relatively short, no more than 20 or 30 characters, no more than maybe half a dozen padding characters, if they've got some really large hybrid role they can always drop vowels and abbreviate, which I'll put in a table, they can then litter their message giving the code with all sorts clues about the key to the code, so long as the actual code is specific, so nobody tries to overlap multiple codes they can claim out of, encoding three or four roles into one message. I'll go into some sample methods below. We'll essentially achieve simultaneous claims, which is very good to do, sort of the equivalent of having everyone write down their name and role on a piece of paper and sticking it in a hat, then when they're all in have them read and tabled.

This happens to be a ideal situation to try it out, I've considered using it generally for normal mass claims but it hasn't been in my best interests to do it for, well, since game 5 or so, lot of scummering, wasn't necessary, or I was dead, etc. IT has given me a fair amount of time to refine the idea for use

For one, I think we definitely need those suggestions and advice you mentioned because I very honestly have no clue how I would even start.


Sure thing. The biggest concern is leaving a message that can't be simply cracked while simultaneously leaving no doubt that the key to decode it was as given, so someone couldn't later manufacture a fake key to fit their clue. I'll give some examples.

I am a cop. I wish to encrypt that, just doing "dpq" is kinda obvious, one letter onto each, plus only so many roles have 3 letter names, but let's say we wanted to encode that to make it hard to extract.

"The Flower, IAEUR"

Starting with cop, the letter-number switcheroo is 3-15-16
Now, for F-L- O -U-R (flower as hint to Flour) it's 6-12-15-21-18

Making Cop 3-15-16-0-0 and adding it to 6-12-15-21-18 gives you:
9-27-31-21-18, for all numbers above 26, we simply repeat back to A=27, B=28, etc, so it turns into 9-1-5-21-18 ---> I-A-E-U-R

Now, trying to guess one's way back to cop from that clue is damn nigh impossible, and this just being a game, no one is too likely to try, you can hack any simple code given enough time and effort, but short messages like this, where one is basically trying to drop the clues needed not to decode it but to prove that that the key to decoding it was the original, not too tricky.

I can't give anyone anything specific to use, since if I do some can crack it, just give ideas. Go through anything you make and double check it to make sure its right and both obvious on explanation and arcane otherwise, nothing too heavy. Up above was one example that can be modified. And I'm sure people can come up with other. Stay simple, people don't need to have a clue that cracks it, just makes it clear your key is singular. Up above was an example, and so is this message. "BWMLFHR"


For those having doubts about how effective this is, try to crack that before going further down for the answer









I can't give anyone anything specific to use, since if I do some can crack it, just give ideas. Go through anything you make and double check it to make sure its right and both obvious on explanation and arcane otherwise, nothing too heavy. Up above was one example that can be modified. And I'm sure people can come up with other. Stay simple, people don't need to have a clue that cracks it, just makes it clear your key is singular. Up above was an example, and so is this message.

First word of every sentence "I Go Up And Stay Up" with the sentence beginning with "And" serving as an indicator this isn't an accident. What goes up and stays up? Lots of stuff, so hard to guess even if someone catches that, but in this case: Helium... note also "Nothing too heavy" which serves as another confirmation. HELIUM is the key to our code BWMLFHR

Tracker + Helium = BWMLFHR
20-18-1-3-11-5-18 + 8-5-12-9-21-3-0 = 28-23-13-12-32-8-18
Change the 28 and 32 into 2 and 6 (28-26 and 32-26) and you get
2-23-13-12-6-8-18 or BWMLFHR... by the way, one should pad these things, say use CRBWMLFHRAP instead, as CR-BWMLFHR-AP... CR-AP, crap, or rather than just encode cop, encode I am a COP - IAMACOP, or encode POCAMAI instead and use as your key REVERSE, scatter clues in the message like "I think we need to push forward with our investigations, and we're really not" and "Seems like everytime we lynch someone they're the opposite of what we expect" and so on. You want as many points of contact confirming your key as you can.

That's not the only route of course, it's just fairly straightforward and reusable. Most others, I'll ruin if I give them but people can use them for ideas, for instance, my last message had a time stamp of 013329, I could add that to "tracker" and comment on how the key was in my last message, etc, etc, nobody would be likely to guess that. Gotta be a little careful my timestamp is set to my time for me, everyone in the default site time will see 063329, but that can be explained, and a single letter off can be forgiven as a mistake so long as its still clear. I know when I left the code telling everyone (in RP Mafia) that I'd copped FT and found him loyal and we were now in discreet cahoots, to be used if I died, I was using all capital letters as the code, and accidentally capitalized someone's name out of habit, odds are if you mess up that way and your decode reads DOCVTOR you'll be good, or if it reads DOCUOR, but doubly checking is a good idea.

Our big advantage is that even if someone cracks it, they can hardly say they did or tell their allies, ideally we have the less frequent posters go first too, so we're not giving people days to try their hand at cracking codes, personally I'll try it just for fun, but mine's already up their so it shouldn't matter. IF anyone wants to go the letter-number route this app will help you can turn the word into numbers or the numbers back into letters, time consuming and easier to make a mistake otherwise. IF anyone really devotes the time to crack codes and is successful, well good for them, a little extra game for that player, most likely it would be one scummer cracking one or two codes for their own use on what to avoid claiming, they won't get them all I'm sure (and if so, they probably deserve to win) let alone aid their allies with the knowledge, so this is pretty safe.

I think I also need to hear more opinions on this.

but I like that it's a new idea that the scum won't be able to have a prediscussed offense against, especially if we can get it done before the next night phase.


Ideally we do it before we lynch anyone today, since there's a good chance we'll shake out someone doing this, its big problem is we'll be exposing our doc, cop, etc... but the cop is often exposed by day 3 and the doc too. In a game of 12 people, usually by day 4, 6 of the 12 are dead anyway, and any given player has about a 1 in 5 chance of getting snuffed during our double lynch. It's a calculated sacrifice that we may not even have to pay, though that's for later.
The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift.
- Albert Einstein

King of Cairhien 20-7-2
Chancellor of the Landsraad, Archduke of Is'Mod
Reply to message
RAFO Mafia 18 - Day 2: Mystery on the High Seas - 15/09/2010 05:39:03 AM 1698 Views
ARRRRRRR *NM* - 15/09/2010 06:44:52 AM 531 Views
Omg. This reply cracked me up so bad. - 15/09/2010 12:34:38 PM 863 Views
Arrrgggh - 15/09/2010 12:50:18 PM 815 Views
Re: Arrrgggh - 15/09/2010 01:29:15 PM 893 Views
plus... - 15/09/2010 01:50:44 PM 788 Views
The grave is no bar to my call!! - 15/09/2010 06:15:53 PM 825 Views
*giggle* *NM* - 17/09/2010 03:42:33 PM 514 Views
Voting Record - 18/09/2010 05:41:39 AM 802 Views
Vote: Fox and Ravens *NM* - 26/09/2010 09:27:41 PM 513 Views
oops, meant to post that to the main topic. *NM* - 26/09/2010 09:31:09 PM 563 Views
they what the what??? - 15/09/2010 08:07:08 AM 775 Views
Moving along - 15/09/2010 02:47:27 PM 1037 Views
knife hand? *confused* *NM* - 15/09/2010 10:25:01 PM 466 Views
You like being the one to kill people. *NM* - 15/09/2010 10:48:56 PM 550 Views
oh *NM* - 15/09/2010 10:59:03 PM 518 Views
Yes - 16/09/2010 12:47:50 AM 784 Views
Re: Yes - 16/09/2010 01:10:51 AM 872 Views
Re: Yes - 16/09/2010 01:49:18 AM 914 Views
Re: RAFO Mafia 18 - Day 2: Mystery on the High Seas - 15/09/2010 04:06:10 PM 841 Views
Re: RAFO Mafia 18 - Day 2: Mystery on the High Seas - 15/09/2010 06:23:19 PM 943 Views
Sorry bout Yesterday. - 15/09/2010 07:56:22 PM 730 Views
Eh, hindsight is 20/20, but I think we overreacted *NM* - 15/09/2010 09:03:27 PM 539 Views
Haha. Apparantly so...still. I didn't like what he said. *NM* - 15/09/2010 10:19:35 PM 532 Views
You're just annoyed that I voted for you! - 17/09/2010 04:06:11 PM 804 Views
my current suspects - 15/09/2010 09:52:52 PM 935 Views
How is that a tactic? *NM* - 15/09/2010 10:21:04 PM 487 Views
It's a great tactic - 16/09/2010 04:41:38 AM 822 Views
Fair enough. *NM* - 16/09/2010 10:28:58 PM 504 Views
Definitely. White Flame has been almost nonexistent. - 15/09/2010 11:23:21 PM 840 Views
yeah, its pretty odd. - 16/09/2010 12:42:01 AM 789 Views
Re: my current suspects - 16/09/2010 03:31:41 AM 914 Views
Expanding the list - 16/09/2010 05:37:24 AM 857 Views
Sorry All - 16/09/2010 10:27:08 PM 795 Views
19? damn - 17/09/2010 03:00:14 AM 968 Views
Re: 19? damn - 17/09/2010 03:40:03 AM 830 Views
Really sorry about the lack of contributions - 18/09/2010 01:02:13 AM 885 Views
RBIRL - 17/09/2010 11:38:33 PM 860 Views
Day 2 EVENT: In High Spirits - 18/09/2010 04:53:47 AM 892 Views
I think 'Aye' is probably the best choice, Vote: Aye - 18/09/2010 05:24:24 AM 718 Views
I can - 18/09/2010 05:35:29 AM 810 Views
There's no REAL downside though... - 18/09/2010 05:39:29 AM 853 Views
Re: There's no REAL downside though... - 19/09/2010 01:22:48 PM 758 Views
Nay - 18/09/2010 05:25:57 AM 845 Views
Can we get an actual reason please? *NM* - 18/09/2010 05:32:35 AM 532 Views
I just posted it in response to Isaac *NM* - 18/09/2010 05:36:03 AM 483 Views
Aye *NM* - 18/09/2010 07:51:22 AM 488 Views
Aye *NM* - 18/09/2010 12:09:39 PM 496 Views
I'm going to go with Vote: Aye - 18/09/2010 02:43:26 PM 802 Views
I'm gonna go with Aye - 18/09/2010 04:16:42 PM 829 Views
Vote: Aye! - 18/09/2010 06:18:47 PM 840 Views
Any debate? Anyone in favor of Nay? - 18/09/2010 07:53:56 AM 852 Views
The vote has already reached a majority, by the way. - 18/09/2010 08:47:56 PM 756 Views
I'm not for Nay - 21/09/2010 01:25:41 AM 781 Views
Oh well too late - 21/09/2010 01:27:36 AM 761 Views
Talk Like a Pirate Day be tomorrow. Arrrr. *NM* - 18/09/2010 08:37:09 PM 484 Views
We need to come up with a plan - 19/09/2010 05:59:26 AM 837 Views
Well, here's who voted for BA: - 19/09/2010 08:04:26 AM 813 Views
? is the logical target - 19/09/2010 08:56:53 AM 786 Views
Re: ? is the logical target - 19/09/2010 02:33:53 PM 843 Views
He is, but I think... - 19/09/2010 03:24:34 PM 816 Views
So what do we do until then? - 19/09/2010 11:32:45 PM 821 Views
Re: ? is the logical target - 20/09/2010 02:10:49 AM 840 Views
Re: ? is the logical target - 20/09/2010 03:14:22 AM 769 Views
Who are your candidates for lynch? - 20/09/2010 03:58:04 AM 814 Views
I don't have any. Especially after my fail of a push for BA - 20/09/2010 04:35:23 AM 766 Views
I think I have a plan - 20/09/2010 06:33:29 AM 947 Views
...erm... - 20/09/2010 07:37:16 AM 944 Views
Crypto tricks - 20/09/2010 10:13:23 AM 853 Views
Also, there's a good chance we ALREADY lynched the cop - 20/09/2010 03:53:49 PM 729 Views
I did notice that... - 21/09/2010 07:50:20 AM 727 Views
I like this idea - 20/09/2010 07:59:31 AM 786 Views
one more thing - 20/09/2010 05:29:00 PM 735 Views
OK, cool! - 20/09/2010 04:17:50 PM 794 Views
intresting idea. - 20/09/2010 04:50:06 PM 827 Views
Alright, I can get behind this. - 20/09/2010 06:14:03 PM 709 Views
*confusion* *NM* - 21/09/2010 01:32:41 AM 467 Views
Basically, he's suggesting a mass roleclaim - 21/09/2010 06:05:34 AM 770 Views
Okay so I got my code... - 21/09/2010 08:46:16 AM 820 Views
Ok...here goes nothing... - 21/09/2010 08:55:57 PM 661 Views
Re: ? is the logical target - 21/09/2010 12:34:10 AM 799 Views
Low posting is anti-town - 20/09/2010 03:42:19 AM 884 Views
Re: Low posting is anti-town - 21/09/2010 01:29:21 AM 674 Views
hmm.. - 19/09/2010 01:18:41 PM 835 Views
Some thoughts... - 19/09/2010 01:21:56 PM 758 Views
this is the first time its happened while i've been playing atleast - 19/09/2010 04:52:13 PM 786 Views
guess so. *NM* - 20/09/2010 05:55:38 AM 513 Views
It's new, but it's hard to see the downside - 19/09/2010 11:48:35 PM 796 Views
Re: It's new, but it's hard to see the downside - 20/09/2010 05:57:12 AM 812 Views
It looks like we're proceeding with the plan so a few reminders - 20/09/2010 06:35:21 PM 884 Views
Hmm. I don't think I did this exactly how you wanted, with the key and whatnot. - 20/09/2010 06:41:22 PM 823 Views
Re: Hmm. I don't think I did this exactly how you wanted, with the key and whatnot. - 20/09/2010 07:13:22 PM 802 Views
Lesse, I think I got a minute here. - 20/09/2010 07:56:48 PM 805 Views
EBWOP: Lessee, redo, class. *NM* - 20/09/2010 07:57:09 PM 498 Views
Re: Hmm. I don't think I did this exactly how you wanted, with the key and whatnot. - 21/09/2010 12:04:49 AM 774 Views
So if I'm understanding this properly... - 21/09/2010 01:38:34 AM 768 Views
That is correct. *NM* - 21/09/2010 01:44:37 AM 488 Views
Re: That is correct. - 21/09/2010 02:16:30 AM 850 Views
Same here *NM* - 21/09/2010 03:34:00 AM 498 Views
im still not clear on the key thing. - 21/09/2010 04:38:53 PM 795 Views
Okay - 21/09/2010 05:28:23 PM 806 Views
It's mostly so someone can't be super-sneaky - 21/09/2010 07:02:55 PM 788 Views
Re: Okay - 21/09/2010 07:43:39 PM 770 Views
You wanted to hint at it, not say it..... *NM* - 21/09/2010 07:46:10 PM 497 Views
horsefeathers - 21/09/2010 07:55:44 PM 742 Views
It's alright. So long as no one actually tries to decode it. :/ *NM* - 21/09/2010 08:00:17 PM 511 Views
when does that happen again? tomorrow? *NM* - 21/09/2010 08:03:24 PM 478 Views
As soon as our laggers post *NM* - 21/09/2010 08:07:23 PM 488 Views
I'm glad I'm dead so I don't have to bother with this. *NM* - 21/09/2010 11:28:46 PM 455 Views
Ghost pirate!! Ahhhhhhhhhh!!!!!! - 21/09/2010 11:48:56 PM 780 Views
I think the only thing a pirate fears ... - 22/09/2010 12:45:38 AM 702 Views
It's easy if you're not British *NM* - 21/09/2010 11:59:06 PM 501 Views
but it's fuuuuuun!!!! *NM* - 22/09/2010 08:23:03 AM 568 Views
on a completely different topic... - 21/09/2010 08:58:35 AM 863 Views
List of Codes and Roleclaims (Table) - 21/09/2010 11:25:37 AM 925 Views
So I shouldn't code my Role now? *NM* - 21/09/2010 01:45:10 PM 441 Views
Of course you should, why wouldn't you? *NM* - 21/09/2010 01:57:53 PM 542 Views
The very last person need not code, everyone else needs to - 21/09/2010 02:01:13 PM 732 Views
Oh, I misunderstood. Ok. - 21/09/2010 03:10:33 PM 798 Views
Changed-look down - 21/09/2010 10:53:21 PM 795 Views
A couple Questions - 21/09/2010 08:53:29 PM 814 Views
Re: A couple Questions - 21/09/2010 08:57:59 PM 812 Views
Re: A couple Questions - 22/09/2010 02:43:21 AM 758 Views
On this whole decryption thing though... - 21/09/2010 10:28:57 PM 856 Views
Well.... - 21/09/2010 11:05:57 PM 789 Views
Re: Well.... - 22/09/2010 08:30:27 AM 973 Views
Re: Well.... - 22/09/2010 02:19:46 PM 823 Views
Any idea when we are gonna start decrypting? - 22/09/2010 01:44:39 AM 781 Views
I think it's ASAP - 22/09/2010 04:07:57 AM 832 Views
Hmm ok. - 22/09/2010 11:30:55 AM 787 Views
We could do it today no? - 22/09/2010 10:57:34 PM 781 Views
Hold on I'm changing my code. - 22/09/2010 01:51:01 AM 748 Views
Wait why does it say and between my codes? - 22/09/2010 11:00:51 PM 772 Views
Its just a link to both - 22/09/2010 11:09:17 PM 778 Views
Re: Its just a link to both - 22/09/2010 11:24:07 PM 817 Views
For the record, I will decode both, if requested. - 23/09/2010 04:49:15 AM 812 Views
My previous roleclaim code should be sufficient - 22/09/2010 11:30:12 PM 799 Views
what now? - 22/09/2010 09:27:09 PM 707 Views
Napoleon needs to roleclaim now - 22/09/2010 09:51:56 PM 847 Views
Are you talking about your "ninja shortlist?" - 22/09/2010 11:07:18 PM 794 Views
Arg... REALLY sorry people. - 23/09/2010 08:16:00 PM 816 Views
You definitely do not get that in eveeeery game - 23/09/2010 09:14:46 PM 842 Views
Why is that so suspicious? - 23/09/2010 10:02:23 PM 797 Views
It's suspicious because it's not true - 23/09/2010 10:17:43 PM 867 Views
PS: ^This is my decryption. *NM* - 24/09/2010 05:11:09 AM 479 Views
Re: You definitely do not get that in eveeeery game - 23/09/2010 10:27:31 PM 853 Views
Hmmm... - 23/09/2010 11:11:21 PM 827 Views
Re: Hmmm... - 24/09/2010 03:44:02 AM 805 Views
"I'm roled by not a standard town role" - 24/09/2010 05:09:27 AM 847 Views
Re: "I'm roled by not a standard town role" - 24/09/2010 05:41:11 AM 820 Views
I believe I already mentioned that *NM* - 24/09/2010 08:37:01 AM 461 Views
I've been playing this game since the wotmania days - 24/09/2010 02:36:21 AM 1051 Views
To our non-participating friends: - 23/09/2010 05:28:39 AM 822 Views
Everyone can start decrypting now - 23/09/2010 09:01:24 PM 812 Views
Re: Everyone can start decrypting now - 23/09/2010 10:33:08 PM 794 Views
Ok, I'll go ahead and do mine too - 23/09/2010 11:16:29 PM 857 Views
Wow that's good. - 24/09/2010 12:14:48 AM 743 Views
I was too lazy to verify beyond oxygen and flourine - 24/09/2010 12:45:09 AM 859 Views
Re: I was too lazy to verify beyond oxygen and flourine - 24/09/2010 02:44:11 AM 798 Views
eh, what the heck - 24/09/2010 03:04:29 AM 701 Views
Re: eh, what the heck - 24/09/2010 03:47:31 AM 623 Views
Just out of curiosity, why do you say townie? RB could just as easily be scum, if not more so. *NM* - 24/09/2010 05:13:51 AM 373 Views
other factors make me think otherwise - 24/09/2010 06:07:31 AM 690 Views
A good bit of analysis - 24/09/2010 09:42:59 AM 1347 Views
Re: A good bit of analysis - 24/09/2010 02:34:02 PM 779 Views
right, mine - 24/09/2010 10:37:45 AM 854 Views
Re: right, mine - 24/09/2010 10:43:26 AM 802 Views
EPWOP - 24/09/2010 10:55:42 AM 810 Views
Re: EPWOP - 24/09/2010 12:47:47 PM 838 Views
Okay, that squares - 24/09/2010 01:14:31 PM 775 Views
Re: Okay, that squares - 24/09/2010 01:22:42 PM 857 Views
Re: Okay, that squares - 24/09/2010 01:30:47 PM 779 Views
fair enough - 24/09/2010 01:58:27 PM 793 Views
Decryption - 25/09/2010 08:00:57 AM 981 Views
All right - 25/09/2010 02:02:29 PM 751 Views
Re: All right - 25/09/2010 03:06:00 PM 916 Views
Re: All right - 25/09/2010 03:35:23 PM 704 Views
I was lazy... I used the INTERNET - 24/09/2010 06:04:26 AM 706 Views
Re: I was lazy... I used the INTERNET - 24/09/2010 02:29:29 PM 781 Views
That is potentially a huge power - 24/09/2010 02:55:05 PM 853 Views
Re: That is potentially a huge power - 24/09/2010 03:33:43 PM 802 Views
Role Claim and Action (Table) - All claims in - 24/09/2010 01:32:53 PM 829 Views
While we're waiting on White Flame - 25/09/2010 08:59:09 PM 907 Views
Re: While we're waiting on White Flame - 25/09/2010 10:47:47 PM 770 Views
EBWOP - 25/09/2010 10:48:31 PM 764 Views
It's probably also worth noting - 25/09/2010 11:17:19 PM 808 Views
Re: It's probably also worth noting - 26/09/2010 12:39:13 AM 841 Views
Re: It's probably also worth noting - 26/09/2010 01:10:17 AM 783 Views
Re: While we're waiting on White Flame - 26/09/2010 02:47:14 AM 835 Views
Vote: Fox and Ravens - 26/09/2010 03:15:38 AM 874 Views
Eh. The RC's always mess me up - 26/09/2010 03:43:54 AM 742 Views
Yes, they can be tricky - 26/09/2010 04:00:52 AM 792 Views
Re: Yes, they can be tricky - 26/09/2010 04:33:40 AM 826 Views
Re: Yes, they can be tricky - 26/09/2010 04:50:08 AM 794 Views
Re: Yes, they can be tricky - 26/09/2010 05:58:11 AM 766 Views
not to mention... - 26/09/2010 04:55:30 AM 802 Views
Re: not to mention... - 26/09/2010 05:03:35 AM 816 Views
Re: not to mention... - 26/09/2010 03:50:09 PM 1025 Views
Vote: Fox and Ravens *NM* - 26/09/2010 02:31:43 PM 523 Views
And what's your reason for this? - 26/09/2010 05:50:11 PM 818 Views
When I saw this... - 26/09/2010 10:07:08 PM 744 Views
I'll second this motion. Vote: Fox and Ravens *NM* - 26/09/2010 07:13:54 PM 525 Views
Somebody want to hammer? - 26/09/2010 09:02:17 PM 826 Views
Unless somebody vote blocked me or something - 26/09/2010 09:06:13 PM 906 Views
nobody admitted to that role, right? - 26/09/2010 09:26:30 PM 832 Views
Oh yeah, missed that. Sorry. *NM* - 26/09/2010 10:19:22 PM 495 Views
<b>Vote: Fox and Ravens</b> - 26/09/2010 09:11:27 PM 773 Views
EBWOP...aww crap. Oh well. *NM* - 26/09/2010 09:11:52 PM 481 Views
Vote: Fox and Ravens *NM* - 26/09/2010 09:30:28 PM 502 Views
Fox and Ravens has been lynched. - 26/09/2010 10:42:10 PM 826 Views

Reply to Message