Ponder these questions, for example:
If we're lynching him to find out if there are any vanillas, do you think any real vanillas would vote for Fox?
If Fox then turns out to be a protown vanilla, don't the DFs know that none of the vanillas voted for Fox (i.e., only non-vanillas voted him)?
If we're lynching him to find out if there are any vanillas, do you think any real vanillas would vote for Fox?
If Fox then turns out to be a protown vanilla, don't the DFs know that none of the vanillas voted for Fox (i.e., only non-vanillas voted him)?
Truly this was worrying me as well. Thankfully, we do not need to do this on someone whose sole lynchworthy characteristic is the claim to be a vanilla. Fox and Ravens was already considered a suspect before I brought my hypothesis to the table, so people who believe that Fox and Ravens is a Darkfriend have reason to vote for him anyway, even if they are vanilla. He is also among the number that participated in the lynch of Blaine, a Lightsider, yesterday, so that's also something useful to consider.
This is the great benefit of using Fox and Ravens as a test subject. He was already being considered for lynching, so reasoning behind the votes against him cannot be solely attributed to this line of inquiry.
Furthermore, if Fox and Ravens is, in fact, a Darkfriend, then his colleagues will all have to worry that we might all be roled, regardless of whether this is true or not.
If Fox turns out to be a DF, does that really mean there are no vanillas?
I think the logic is a bit backwards. I'm not saying Fox should/shouldn't be lynched, but I don't see the logic behind lynching him as an "experiment" to find out if there are vanillas.
I think the logic is a bit backwards. I'm not saying Fox should/shouldn't be lynched, but I don't see the logic behind lynching him as an "experiment" to find out if there are vanillas.
No, obviously the only way we can determine for certain that there are no vanillas is to know the role of everybody in the game, and that won't happen until it is ended. I fail to see why I should hesitate to lynch Fox and Ravens because he might be a Darkfriend.
The logic behind lynching him to find out if we have vanillas in the game is simple. Lynching Fox and Ravens can only bring us two possible results: either he is a vanilla, or he is not.
If he is, we have an answer to my question.
If he is not, then we have lynched a Darkfriend (or a liar).
There are benefits to either result, though obviously the latter is preferable.
The first rule of being a ninja is "do no harm". Unless you intend to do harm, then do lots of harm.
~Master Splinter
Victorious in Bergioyn's legendary 'Reverse Mafia'. *MySmiley*
~Master Splinter
Victorious in Bergioyn's legendary 'Reverse Mafia'. *MySmiley*
Game 16, Day 2: In the Manor of Mad Muad (Ended)
09/04/2010 06:59:52 PM
- 4333 Views
Inactivity Tracker - VNTL: 7
09/04/2010 08:10:05 PM
- 1414 Views
Artsapat - RBIRL. Sorry: need to finish work before my week long holiday *NM*
09/04/2010 08:25:47 PM
- 779 Views
Darth_Katie: Semi-RBIRL *NM*
11/04/2010 03:36:00 AM
- 850 Views
Wait... what?
09/04/2010 11:36:10 PM
- 1285 Views
OK, I think I see.
09/04/2010 11:40:28 PM
- 1201 Views
Re: OK, I think I see.
10/04/2010 12:12:47 AM
- 1375 Views
Sounds good. With that said...
10/04/2010 01:47:17 AM
- 1104 Views
Hm. So, FT- did you do anything to inform us that you were the cop?
10/04/2010 01:52:23 AM
- 1212 Views
Wow...
10/04/2010 01:54:05 AM
- 1324 Views
Re: Wow...
10/04/2010 03:03:21 AM
- 1262 Views
Why were those two killed?
10/04/2010 03:12:49 AM
- 1178 Views
It's pretty obvious why Hobo was killed after Blaine was found to be a Mason.
10/04/2010 03:51:17 AM
- 1297 Views
Re: It's pretty obvious why Hobo was killed after Blaine was found to be a Mason.
10/04/2010 04:20:37 AM
- 1163 Views
Well, he was revealed to be a Whitecloak, with a tacked-on ability
10/04/2010 04:29:34 AM
- 1109 Views
Re: Well, he was revealed to be a Whitecloak, with a tacked-on ability
10/04/2010 05:15:45 AM
- 1254 Views
Re: Well, he was revealed to be a Whitecloak, with a tacked-on ability
10/04/2010 05:23:51 AM
- 1231 Views
Re: Well, he was revealed to be a Whitecloak, with a tacked-on ability
10/04/2010 05:27:49 AM
- 1302 Views
Re: Well, he was revealed to be a Whitecloak, with a tacked-on ability
10/04/2010 05:44:59 AM
- 1212 Views
Careful, that's been Beetnemesis' strategy the past few games. Doesn't work so well *NM*
10/04/2010 07:14:55 PM
- 751 Views
Explain? *NM*
11/04/2010 01:01:59 AM
- 816 Views
He got the entire town against him by digging himself a deeper and deeper hole.
11/04/2010 01:40:46 AM
- 1195 Views
Two main venues of inquiry:
10/04/2010 05:12:46 AM
- 1299 Views
I'm curious if he is really worth keeping around
10/04/2010 05:34:50 AM
- 1203 Views
I certainly oppose a roleclaim at this point...
10/04/2010 05:42:55 AM
- 1204 Views
Yes, but
10/04/2010 05:56:32 AM
- 1209 Views
Meh, I'd expect him to tell us if we were wrong...
10/04/2010 06:09:13 AM
- 1202 Views
Flavor in Hobo's death scene.
10/04/2010 08:13:03 AM
- 1223 Views
first off
10/04/2010 11:25:23 AM
- 1118 Views
Re: first off
10/04/2010 11:59:27 AM
- 1148 Views
one possiblity
10/04/2010 03:36:06 PM
- 1094 Views
The Janitor role prevents us from finding out the victims role and affiliation though.
10/04/2010 07:20:16 PM
- 1202 Views
hmmmn
10/04/2010 10:29:14 PM
- 1171 Views
Let's try to find out reasons why the body was hidden
11/04/2010 06:53:23 PM
- 1201 Views
People know balefire
10/04/2010 05:49:19 PM
- 1241 Views
I think she learned it from Adaleas and/or Vandene, but I'm not really sure of that *NM*
10/04/2010 11:11:57 PM
- 627 Views
Also, twilight and dawn scenes
10/04/2010 08:27:55 AM
- 1302 Views
You got twilight AND dawn? Fancy.
10/04/2010 06:01:44 PM
- 1194 Views
Could be his clothes in his wardrobe that were left behind, not the ones he was wearing. *NM*
10/04/2010 07:21:54 PM
- 681 Views
Oh. Duh. It says his possessions, not a heap of clothes on the floor
10/04/2010 08:05:14 PM
- 1264 Views
I'm guessing it had to do with me being the hammer vote on Blaine.
11/04/2010 12:44:09 AM
- 1154 Views
I think we should hypocop, in any case
10/04/2010 08:14:52 PM
- 1243 Views
I really think this is completely unnecessary.
10/04/2010 09:20:46 PM
- 1260 Views
FT doesn't know the results of the investigation- the deputy may
10/04/2010 11:30:26 PM
- 1131 Views
Re: FT doesn't know the results of the investigation- the deputy may
11/04/2010 01:44:01 AM
- 1350 Views
I agree, our Cop is dead and F-T kept a journal, which revealed no new investigation. *NM*
11/04/2010 12:32:21 AM
- 726 Views
How could this possibly do us harm?
11/04/2010 05:18:55 PM
- 1153 Views
All I'm saying is the possibilty is there. *NM*
11/04/2010 06:56:20 PM
- 734 Views
Hypocop table- Night One [Table]
10/04/2010 08:19:21 PM
- 1265 Views
I found Napoleon62 to be guilty *NM*
11/04/2010 07:04:13 PM
- 783 Views
Isaac: quick clarification.
11/04/2010 07:15:58 PM
- 1172 Views
Is he a man or woman?
12/04/2010 01:24:37 AM
- 1162 Views
His character is a red haired Saldean noblewoman, who likes to wear green. *NM*
12/04/2010 01:33:29 AM
- 813 Views
Ooah this ended up in the wrong place. I meant White Flame, but that question's been answered. *NM*
12/04/2010 01:40:33 AM
- 743 Views
Chair Vote: ranagrande
10/04/2010 11:14:56 PM
- 1113 Views
Re: Chair Vote: ranagrande
10/04/2010 11:31:07 PM
- 1100 Views
I think it's because no one really has a feel for the roles, yet Advocate Vote: beetnemesis
10/04/2010 11:38:56 PM
- 1211 Views
Where are all the people who used the "it's Day 1" excuse to not talk yesterday?
11/04/2010 12:52:27 AM
- 1188 Views
Re: Where are all the people who used the "it's Day 1" excuse to not talk yesterday?
11/04/2010 01:59:01 AM
- 1044 Views
Psst: Bergoiyn's a dude. *NM*
11/04/2010 04:11:38 AM
- 810 Views
My bad *NM*
11/04/2010 06:31:22 PM
- 778 Views
Was this just a mix up, or didn't you know? *NM*
11/04/2010 08:45:11 PM
- 683 Views
I think it was just a mixup. Not really sure what I was thinking. *NM*
11/04/2010 09:47:51 PM
- 745 Views
Re: Where are all the people who used the "it's Day 1" excuse to not talk yesterday?
11/04/2010 06:15:37 AM
- 1242 Views
Actually I did post RBIRL at the very end of Day 1. And it came that late because
11/04/2010 10:21:54 AM
- 1114 Views
ahhh noobs
11/04/2010 02:14:26 AM
- 1154 Views
Re: ahhh noobs
12/04/2010 02:51:33 PM
- 1113 Views
I didn't use "Day 1 excuse". I've been sick, and really haven't got the energy to do anything.
11/04/2010 10:16:10 AM
- 1137 Views
Hmm.
11/04/2010 12:53:43 AM
- 1268 Views
And I thought you'd try to make another bid for the Chair, being "new" and all. *NM*
11/04/2010 05:23:26 PM
- 723 Views
So, any suspicions?
11/04/2010 03:15:53 PM
- 1162 Views
EBWOP - It's supposed to read "who people have suspicions about and why." *NM*
11/04/2010 03:17:33 PM
- 727 Views
Let's rip out mine
11/04/2010 07:18:38 PM
- 1112 Views
Yesterday you said you trusted White Flame
11/04/2010 07:31:20 PM
- 1176 Views
As I mentioned above, I'm suspicious of Fox
11/04/2010 10:54:48 PM
- 1214 Views
Advocate Vote: beetnemesis | Chair Vote: Gher *NM*
11/04/2010 05:26:39 PM
- 634 Views
Best thing to go off of now, I suppose.
11/04/2010 09:50:08 PM
- 1243 Views
I still don't want beet having power. But Chair Vote: Gher is acceptable. *NM*
11/04/2010 11:26:46 PM
- 757 Views
Maybe I wasn't paying attention ...
12/04/2010 01:32:51 AM
- 1069 Views
Sheer animal magnetism
12/04/2010 08:21:14 AM
- 1213 Views
110 new posts later....
12/04/2010 12:49:51 AM
- 1223 Views
Re: 110 new posts later....
12/04/2010 01:49:46 AM
- 1210 Views
This last bit is honestly the part that might convince me
12/04/2010 08:17:55 AM
- 1284 Views
Oh! And the hypocopping thing! I don't know what was up with that.
12/04/2010 08:20:22 AM
- 1190 Views
That's the one that bugs me the most.
12/04/2010 04:06:31 PM
- 1178 Views
Wait, are you suspicious of Fox or not?
13/04/2010 12:35:07 AM
- 1220 Views
Yes, I am.
13/04/2010 01:41:00 AM
- 1242 Views
Re: Yes, I am.
13/04/2010 05:29:27 AM
- 1168 Views
A quick argument for why there's likely still some type of cop
13/04/2010 08:01:24 AM
- 1090 Views
Re: A quick argument for why there's likely still some type of cop
13/04/2010 09:39:31 AM
- 1165 Views
I disagree with the "F-T hid it" theory.
13/04/2010 09:53:46 AM
- 1081 Views
My point was, storywise, we wouldn't KNOW if the darkfriends were killed
14/04/2010 04:12:49 AM
- 1221 Views
We can agree on all of your points, but it only argues in favor of Fox's reasoning. *NM*
13/04/2010 09:48:39 AM
- 776 Views
Re: Yes, I am.
13/04/2010 07:35:54 AM
- 1047 Views
Here's the deal with hypocopping:
13/04/2010 07:54:36 AM
- 1222 Views
Re: Oh! And the hypocopping thing! I don't know what was up with that.
12/04/2010 04:08:10 PM
- 1101 Views
Re: 110 new posts later....
12/04/2010 06:51:14 AM
- 1102 Views
So, any other avenues of investigation that we need to attack?
13/04/2010 03:37:39 PM
- 1251 Views
Okay I need 2 Random numbers between 1-15 please - got 3 and 13, thanks
13/04/2010 06:45:43 PM
- 1072 Views
Event: Lunch Interlude
13/04/2010 10:00:19 PM
- 1254 Views
You see that? Black and Red.
13/04/2010 11:12:07 PM
- 951 Views
Taimens? *NM*
13/04/2010 11:26:01 PM
- 709 Views
I was going to point that out yesterday
14/04/2010 12:16:46 AM
- 1369 Views
So... there's that
13/04/2010 11:39:23 PM
- 1083 Views
Origin Chart (Table)
14/04/2010 05:05:14 PM
- 1166 Views
So... does anyone have any bursts of insight?
15/04/2010 04:21:20 AM
- 1197 Views
Yes, vote fistofpainx. He's a DF. *NM*
15/04/2010 07:04:36 AM
- 728 Views
Actually, I'm starting to agree with this.
15/04/2010 07:38:43 AM
- 1230 Views
Personally...
15/04/2010 08:32:15 PM
- 1098 Views
Yeah fist is (and has been) very quiet. Hey! Wake up!
15/04/2010 11:24:29 PM
- 1081 Views
*Prods Players*
16/04/2010 08:23:01 AM
- 1115 Views
This is where I'd vote for fistofpainx...
16/04/2010 06:47:57 PM
- 1191 Views
Nah, he doesn't need to roleclaim yet
17/04/2010 12:20:12 AM
- 1208 Views
Not right away, no.
17/04/2010 01:04:43 AM
- 1134 Views
Er...
18/04/2010 01:56:29 AM
- 1072 Views
meh I don't have any feelings *NM*
18/04/2010 02:25:03 AM
- 660 Views
I agree
18/04/2010 03:29:30 AM
- 1105 Views
Talic was suspicious because he was cagey about his origin
18/04/2010 08:28:34 AM
- 1136 Views
No, not really...
18/04/2010 06:23:42 PM
- 1034 Views
I don't find that suspicious at all
18/04/2010 07:11:01 PM
- 1110 Views
You make a lot of assumptions.
18/04/2010 09:00:11 PM
- 1139 Views
Re: You make a lot of assumptions.
18/04/2010 09:44:22 PM
- 1153 Views
But which assumption is more likely?
19/04/2010 12:55:28 AM
- 1177 Views
But the assumptions are all (or mostly) completely rational. *NM*
19/04/2010 02:12:28 AM
- 688 Views
Fox is the only one I'm really suspicious of so far
18/04/2010 07:31:09 AM
- 1053 Views
OK, so here are my (new) candidates)
18/04/2010 08:48:22 AM
- 1256 Views
At this point, it's almost painfully obvious that fistofpainx is a DF. *NM*
18/04/2010 08:10:06 PM
- 667 Views
Oh, btw, even though Isaac hasn't updated yet, you're still voting for fistofpainx *NM*
18/04/2010 08:12:25 PM
- 746 Views
I don't know who to kill Today.
19/04/2010 05:14:19 PM
- 1215 Views
F-T makes good points about Talic.
19/04/2010 09:38:38 PM
- 1256 Views
we are gonna have to do something guys
19/04/2010 10:24:30 PM
- 1133 Views
Someone bring me solid evidence about fist. I suggest BlackAdder for this
20/04/2010 12:19:12 AM
- 1162 Views
here's some evidence
20/04/2010 12:49:29 AM
- 1205 Views
Eh, FT's thing was that Talic didn't get NK'd
20/04/2010 01:50:50 AM
- 1116 Views
Why would you want him to roleclaim?
20/04/2010 03:34:46 AM
- 1079 Views
Re: Why would you want him to roleclaim?
20/04/2010 04:45:46 AM
- 981 Views
I'd rather not trust that he'll screw up a roleclaim.
20/04/2010 04:59:54 AM
- 1215 Views
Just saying that it has changed the situation before and very well can again. *NM*
20/04/2010 03:42:06 PM
- 605 Views
Whoa.
20/04/2010 03:42:07 PM
- 1224 Views
I'll wait for him to post his reasons. *NM*
20/04/2010 04:22:20 PM
- 668 Views
Yeah, I've been RBIRL and informed everyone of it. Reading is tech.
20/04/2010 05:36:11 PM
- 1095 Views
Re: Yeah, I've been RBIRL and informed everyone of it. Reading is tech.
20/04/2010 06:02:45 PM
- 1120 Views
btw, what is the case against me anyway? That I have a case against fist? *NM*
20/04/2010 06:11:01 PM
- 754 Views
I don't see what your points are.
20/04/2010 06:12:49 PM
- 1123 Views
Re: I don't see what your points are.
20/04/2010 06:22:19 PM
- 1211 Views
First off, stop with the eye rolls.
20/04/2010 06:27:48 PM
- 992 Views
I can't help it
20/04/2010 06:33:05 PM
- 1207 Views
Re: I can't help it
20/04/2010 06:46:25 PM
- 1121 Views
meh, your case against fist just seems really weak
21/04/2010 01:03:17 AM
- 1060 Views
just because someone has a non-vanilla role
20/04/2010 06:53:39 PM
- 1281 Views
Re: just because someone has a non-vanilla role
20/04/2010 07:11:59 PM
- 1174 Views
I'm not voting for Blackadder Today.
20/04/2010 08:34:21 PM
- 1164 Views
I wasn't jumping to lynch him, I was just putting pressure.
20/04/2010 09:51:17 PM
- 1137 Views
Yeah, I thought that was interesting too.
21/04/2010 12:46:01 AM
- 1181 Views
Bandwagon votes
21/04/2010 12:41:33 PM
- 1174 Views
Post counts
21/04/2010 01:30:07 PM
- 1043 Views
Really, now. Yuna, ranagrande, Amys, fist, White Flame, and Talic: The MOD has more posts than you. *NM*
21/04/2010 01:33:57 PM
- 688 Views
Cosequences?
21/04/2010 06:27:29 PM
- 1236 Views
I'm not in the end, but in the middle of the list? This demands celebration! *NM*
21/04/2010 08:42:36 PM
- 666 Views
Personally I think it's weird that people are jumping on blackadder
21/04/2010 12:23:06 AM
- 1335 Views
Re: Personally I think it's weird that people are jumping on blackadder
21/04/2010 03:34:46 AM
- 1217 Views
Vote Table: 21 Apr, Wednesday 11:46 PM EST
21/04/2010 01:58:55 AM
- 1205 Views
Hey, Talic, Yuna, and Artsapat!
21/04/2010 01:14:54 PM
- 1191 Views
Re: Hey, Talic, Yuna, and Artsapat!
21/04/2010 01:35:13 PM
- 1276 Views
Yea, I saw right after I posted this. Still doesn't exclude the other two!
21/04/2010 01:39:07 PM
- 1189 Views
mrrr
21/04/2010 01:44:01 PM
- 1190 Views
That seems awfully familiar to my reasoning.
21/04/2010 01:46:29 PM
- 1154 Views
bleh
21/04/2010 02:00:08 PM
- 1214 Views
It's not that you agreed with someone.
21/04/2010 02:01:25 PM
- 1127 Views
All right, lets do this. Vote: Fox and Ravens
21/04/2010 05:37:05 PM
- 1262 Views
Has anything happened in the last few days to increase your suspicion?
21/04/2010 06:27:43 PM
- 1121 Views
The deadline?
21/04/2010 06:57:52 PM
- 1145 Views
Re: The deadline?
21/04/2010 07:22:19 PM
- 1177 Views
Yeah, sorry man.
21/04/2010 09:08:46 PM
- 1170 Views
OK...so here are my thoughts up to this point...
22/04/2010 01:24:02 AM
- 1188 Views
I'm disinclined to go along with this.
22/04/2010 02:16:28 AM
- 1099 Views
Hmm. That reminds me of something.
22/04/2010 02:43:35 AM
- 1110 Views
Oh, and I forgot to add...
22/04/2010 02:45:37 AM
- 1247 Views
So what you're saying is that there's no way I could be vanilla?
22/04/2010 03:06:31 AM
- 1114 Views
Don't be absurd.
22/04/2010 04:14:36 AM
- 1135 Views
That's a terrible reason.
22/04/2010 02:35:53 PM
- 1175 Views
Btw, Isaac, I voted for fist in my long post *NM*
22/04/2010 02:59:38 PM
- 601 Views
Buried it a bit there, got it now *NM*
22/04/2010 03:41:07 PM
- 776 Views
Another question
22/04/2010 03:46:16 PM
- 1318 Views
So you really don't have any abilities, restrictions, or anything?
22/04/2010 03:35:39 PM
- 1059 Views
So you agree with F-T, then?
22/04/2010 03:44:24 PM
- 1128 Views
About lynching Fox to determine whether we have Vanillas or not? Yes.
22/04/2010 04:11:44 PM
- 1131 Views
Re: Hmm. That reminds me of something.
22/04/2010 03:28:37 PM
- 1202 Views
If Fox is lying about his roleclaim, that's only more reason to lynch him.
22/04/2010 06:18:41 PM
- 1103 Views
Also, if the whole town has powers
22/04/2010 03:37:26 PM
- 1297 Views
No, we shouldn't
22/04/2010 03:48:30 PM
- 1153 Views
Re: No, we shouldn't
22/04/2010 04:00:33 PM
- 1223 Views
What is it you want to hear from me?
22/04/2010 06:17:39 PM
- 1142 Views
Re: What is it you want to hear from me?
22/04/2010 09:04:22 PM
- 1095 Views
Well, it depends.
22/04/2010 10:56:39 PM
- 1117 Views
Re: Well, it depends.
22/04/2010 11:21:47 PM
- 1175 Views
Re: Well, it depends.
23/04/2010 04:58:40 AM
- 1198 Views
and how will coordination help?
22/04/2010 08:23:27 PM
- 1049 Views
Obviously we don't have time for this Today, just keep in mind for Tomorrow.
22/04/2010 09:01:16 PM
- 1095 Views
The trick of this game is to never appear too obviously town, and definitely not too obviously scum.
22/04/2010 10:51:12 PM
- 1192 Views
Re: Obviously we don't have time for this Today, just keep in mind for Tomorrow.
23/04/2010 02:47:15 AM
- 1173 Views
P.S. could you also answer my question above to you, Kronin and Darth Katie?
22/04/2010 09:05:47 PM
- 1163 Views
I'm pretty sure you can't change your vote, being Chair and all. *NM*
21/04/2010 10:20:14 PM
- 725 Views
I can probably change my vote, even if the Chair vote doesn't move along with me.
22/04/2010 12:05:31 AM
- 1144 Views
It's not explicitly stated, but
22/04/2010 12:39:39 AM
- 1100 Views
Ya, I think you're right. Gher has a doublevote, but I have a one-time defense.
22/04/2010 01:49:29 AM
- 1159 Views
So, Fox: What's up with this?
22/04/2010 05:07:21 PM
- 1164 Views
Re: So, Fox: What's up with this?
22/04/2010 07:24:46 PM
- 1245 Views
Note from Moderator: Deadline Approaches, Current Vote Table
23/04/2010 12:30:22 PM
- 1243 Views
Fox and Ravens has been Lynched *NM*
23/04/2010 05:56:19 PM
- 693 Views
Wait, isn't that 6 votes, not 7? *NM*
23/04/2010 06:25:58 PM
- 590 Views
As has been mentioned, it records the number of people who voted, not the number of votes
23/04/2010 06:34:45 PM
- 1358 Views
Re: As has been mentioned, it records the number of people who voted, not the number of votes
23/04/2010 06:41:57 PM
- 1211 Views
Day 2 Twilight – Fox and Ravens Lynched
23/04/2010 06:46:43 PM
- 1138 Views
Whoa. . .
24/04/2010 01:49:09 AM
- 1123 Views
And I shouldn't trust mine. I seriously thought Fox was innocent. *NM*
24/04/2010 06:53:46 AM
- 669 Views
And I never trust my instincts, I trust Science!
24/04/2010 08:47:16 AM
- 1109 Views
As well you should!
24/04/2010 12:56:25 PM
- 1108 Views
*pokes the ghost*
25/04/2010 01:16:28 AM
- 1105 Views