Active Users:426 Time:18/12/2024 10:21:43 AM
It's true that both parties have contributed to the decline of political norms/courtesies, yes. Legolas Send a noteboard - 07/12/2024 09:42:18 PM

But you wouldn't expect me to agree with all of the points you're making here, of course.

View original postHence the importance of precedents, which Democrats seem congenitally incapable of understanding. When Trump got his first divorce, amid all the scandal of him being exposed as fathering a child with his mistress, his ill-concealed political aspirations were assumed to be ended, and just a few years later, in the early days of Clinton's administration, there was a bloodbath of senior military officers over sexual impropriety and infidelity. And then came the rest of his term in office, and the Democrats refusing to convict a proven perjurer (whose own SCOTUS appointees boycotted his State of the Union Address for that reason) on a party-line vote, changing the standard to "it's not relevant to the duties of his office." All of a sudden, the dignity of the office was not too far out of the reach of Marla Maples' sugar daddy.

It wasn't a party-line vote, a number of Republicans joined all Democrats in voting not to convict Clinton. But fair enough that it set a precedent. As for my opinion on the vote, I'm torn - it does seem clear enough that yes, he committed perjury, but on the other hand his extramarital escapades were for him and his wife to deal with and were, as you say, not relevant to the duties of his office, so it would've made little sense to remove him from office on that account.

The Trump bit reminds me of the French president Mitterrand back in the 80s who also got into a bit of a scandal when the press found out that he had fathered a daughter with his mistress, but then famously replied to those allegations with nothing more than 'So what?' and went on to continue his career with very limited impact. France isn't the US though, I guess.

View original postBarry O decided his transformative presidency was sufficient reason to blow off customary courtesies to the minority party and ramrod his agenda through, dismissing objections with the assertion that "elections have consequences." And then the Republicans promptly win three straight Congresses and decide that fuck the tradition of letting a (Democratic) President appoint whom he wants to the Supreme Court, their election has consequences too, and since the people of the nation gave them the House of Congress with advise and consent on appointments, they had a perfect right to tell the Obamessiah "No thanks, we'll leave that to the next president, not a lame duck who will be out of office in a year." And the Democrats and their media shills acted like this was a grave violation of sacred principles (when they weren't chortling at the stupidity of the GOP for putting the choice in the hands of Hilary Clinton - funny how no one back then seemed to mind the prospect of a vengeful new President making appointments who were utterly antithetical to the opposing party).

Let's be serious here, whatever arguments McConnell had at the time he refused to even consider Merrick Garland's nomination (as opposed to voting him down) in 2016 were shown to be utterly meaningless when he chose to ram through Amy Coney Barrett's nomination so shortly before the 2020 presidential election. Even though I actually like Coney Barrett and think she's shown herself a valuable asset to the SC.
View original postWe have seen similar things with the Democrats discarding numerous other customs and courtesies or just doing whatever they are legally allowed, no matter how it has been seen as unchivalrous in the past, in cases like the nuclear option and filibuster or contesting settled elections or violently demonstrating against a new President, or Presidential candidates refraining from accusing their opponents of lying (Barry again: even Bill "did not have sex with that woman" Clinton, Al "invented the internet" Gore, Ronald "win one for the Gipper" Reagan, George W "does not go abroad looking for monsters to destroy" Bush, & George HW "read my lips" Bush did not break this custom or be so accused by their opponents) only to recall them with feigned devotion when the Republicans get their turn on the other side of the glory hole.

With Senate customs like the filibuster and the 'nuclear option', given the changed political landscape in which it looks like 60+ seat majorities for either party are a thing of the past and political polarization runs so high that bipartisanship is becoming quite rare, it seemed inevitable that one side or the other would get rid of such things simply because there's no way to get things done anymore otherwise.

The same goes for impeachment for that matter - whoever the target is and from whichever party, the procedure with its requirement to have 2/3rds of the Senate voting for conviction simply doesn't work anymore in this day and age, unless the target of the impeachment has irrevocably lost the support of a large part of his own party as well. Not that I'm suggesting that it should just require a simple majority - but I do suggest that since impeachment is in most cases no longer a viable solution, the arguments along the lines of 'presidents can't be prosecuted for any criminal actions taken in office, only impeachment should be used for those' fall flat, since impeachment isn't realistically going to happen to any president who isn't already extraordinarily unpopular, regardless of whether he did or didn't commit any crimes.

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No Fucks Left to Give Joe tosses Hunter a blanket pardon - 02/12/2024 09:23:33 PM 299 Views
I think if he hadn't said he wouldn't pardon his son, then this would be a non-issue. - 03/12/2024 12:53:15 PM 41 Views
I don't agree with that - it would've been a serious issue still. - 03/12/2024 05:56:18 PM 48 Views
How about this? - 04/12/2024 03:43:52 AM 43 Views
Fully agree. *NM* - 04/12/2024 06:40:15 AM 10 Views
Trump was already going to pardon all the J6 defendants, though. - 04/12/2024 07:18:56 AM 41 Views
Re: Trump was already going to pardon all the J6 defendants, though. - 04/12/2024 02:07:41 PM 39 Views
Ugh, I hate this 'they're all the same' rhetoric. - 04/12/2024 09:22:38 PM 35 Views
I respectfully disagree. - 04/12/2024 11:09:07 PM 38 Views
Seems like we're kind of talking past each other here. - 05/12/2024 11:39:02 PM 31 Views
Trump had quite a few successes in his first term - 06/12/2024 02:45:32 PM 36 Views
You mean his administration and Congress had those successes. - 06/12/2024 10:12:25 PM 45 Views
No, I mean him. *NM* - 07/12/2024 12:38:27 AM 11 Views
Okay, then I guess we're not debating it, as you like. *NM* - 07/12/2024 08:54:03 AM 13 Views
The achievements of the administration are attributed to the President. - 08/12/2024 10:50:43 AM 34 Views
Some people also think the earth is flat. - 08/12/2024 06:29:37 PM 31 Views
Le sigh - 08/12/2024 09:03:01 PM 33 Views
Make up your mind already. - 08/12/2024 10:30:11 PM 30 Views
I mostly agree, with one giant caveat - 05/12/2024 02:56:02 PM 44 Views
Re: I mostly agree, with one giant caveat - 05/12/2024 03:49:00 PM 40 Views
I take a bit of umbrage at that assignment personally - 06/12/2024 12:37:40 AM 39 Views
We've been over this - some of this is true, some is, at a minimum, not proven that I ever saw. - 05/12/2024 11:18:24 PM 38 Views
I know it was factually true - 06/12/2024 12:46:44 AM 41 Views
Sounds like you need to become a whistleblower and go talk to the FBI yourself, then? - 06/12/2024 11:37:00 AM 37 Views
Typically, whistle blower and attorney client privilege are not viewed as compatible. - 06/12/2024 03:57:12 PM 38 Views
I have a clearance - 06/12/2024 05:01:07 PM 40 Views
Re: I have a clearance - 06/12/2024 08:08:50 PM 42 Views
Secret evidence doesn't have to be believed - 07/12/2024 09:31:10 PM 39 Views
Re: Secret evidence doesn't have to be believed - 08/12/2024 03:46:54 PM 33 Views
Seriously? - 06/12/2024 10:28:07 PM 36 Views
Re: Seriously? - 06/12/2024 11:33:59 PM 34 Views
Did you even read that earlier post? - 07/12/2024 08:53:15 AM 37 Views
I can't believe I'm siding with Tom here - 07/12/2024 01:50:15 AM 36 Views
I guess you kinda have to with your profession. - 07/12/2024 07:46:01 PM 33 Views
Re: I guess you kinda have to with your profession. - 07/12/2024 08:07:28 PM 38 Views
See my other reply above then. *NM* - 07/12/2024 09:43:37 PM 12 Views
You're CLEARLY a Harris plant - 06/12/2024 01:07:07 AM 39 Views
Hah, you got me! - 06/12/2024 11:49:19 AM 36 Views
Re: Hah, you got me! - 07/12/2024 04:52:06 AM 35 Views
It's true that both parties have contributed to the decline of political norms/courtesies, yes. - 07/12/2024 09:42:18 PM 32 Views
I'd be hesitant to link Biden with the Democrats anymore - 06/12/2024 01:24:44 AM 39 Views
Re: I'd be hesitant to link Biden with the Democrats anymore - 06/12/2024 01:47:08 AM 34 Views

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