Active Users:408 Time:18/12/2024 10:37:58 AM
Seems like we're kind of talking past each other here. Legolas Send a noteboard - 05/12/2024 11:39:02 PM

You say you respectfully disagree, but the points you make about LBJ and Nixon being bad in a variety of ways have little to do with what I wrote, except maybe the 'worse and worse politics' bit.

It's not that I'm claiming politicians weren't corrupt or bad in various ways in the past, what I object to is the lazy 'they're all the same' rhetoric that lets politicians off the hook and pushes people to resign themselves to corruption because they can't help it, it's part of what makes a politician.


View original postNixon was all of those plus every bit as vindictive as Trump, if not more so. Nixon set the bar for making lists of enemies and using the power of his office to punish them, particularly subjecting them to repeated IRS audits. And it was widely known that he wanted to find a way around the 22nd Amendment so he could serve more than 2 terms. There's a reason why Alan Moore's Watchmen universe featured President for life Nixon.

The difference however is that Nixon was a smart politician who had policy ideas that he tried to implement on a wide range of topics, and during whose presidency lots of important steps were taken on foreign policy, health care and social security, environmental policy, welfare reform, etc. - obviously not all of them his own personal achievements and most involving Congress, but still.

The difference between Trump and previous presidents isn't necessarily that he's more corrupt or morally more reprehensible. It's that he doesn't give a fuck and can't be bothered to actually put in any work and develop actual policies. Even when the Republican-led Congress during his presidency was trying to pass tax cuts or other priorities that he supposedly wanted, his rhetoric was changing from day to day and he was often hurting passage as much as helping it, because he had no real idea of what the end result should be, caring only that whatever it was would make him popular.

Also on the topic of lying - yes, essentially all politicians lie sometimes. They know the actual facts but still say the opposite because it makes them look better, or they lie by omission. And sometimes they flip-flop on an issue, knowing that it looks bad but having reasons to make it worth it. But with Trump it's not so much lying or flipflopping as bullshitting: he doesn't know / can't be bothered to have to remember any actual facts, so instead he just makes random stuff up without caring in the least what resemblance his statements bear to the actual facts, or to what he said on previous occasions. Probably everybody knows some people who often do that in their lives, it's not necessarily that harmful, but when Trump does it, somehow a lot of people filter out only those parts that sound good to them and then delude themselves into thinking that Trump is actually going to help them and never mind all those other things he said to the contrary.

Though it must be said, this complete lack of consistency and vision is in some ways also a good thing - when liberals are going on about the scary Project 2025 plans or even Trump's 'fascism', they aren't taking into account Trump's track record and the likelihood that, just like the tax cuts, he will be hindering such plans as often as he'll boost them.



View original postThis shit is not new. Power corrupts, has been a maxim since the beginning of history. There have been those who have tried to make it better for thousands of years. How has that worked out?

A hell of a lot better than if we had all collectively accepted for those thousands of years that politicians are all inevitably going to be corrupt and there's no point doing anything about it.
This message last edited by Legolas on 05/12/2024 at 11:53:25 PM
Reply to message
No Fucks Left to Give Joe tosses Hunter a blanket pardon - 02/12/2024 09:23:33 PM 299 Views
I think if he hadn't said he wouldn't pardon his son, then this would be a non-issue. - 03/12/2024 12:53:15 PM 43 Views
I don't agree with that - it would've been a serious issue still. - 03/12/2024 05:56:18 PM 48 Views
How about this? - 04/12/2024 03:43:52 AM 44 Views
Fully agree. *NM* - 04/12/2024 06:40:15 AM 10 Views
Trump was already going to pardon all the J6 defendants, though. - 04/12/2024 07:18:56 AM 41 Views
Re: Trump was already going to pardon all the J6 defendants, though. - 04/12/2024 02:07:41 PM 40 Views
Ugh, I hate this 'they're all the same' rhetoric. - 04/12/2024 09:22:38 PM 35 Views
I respectfully disagree. - 04/12/2024 11:09:07 PM 38 Views
Seems like we're kind of talking past each other here. - 05/12/2024 11:39:02 PM 32 Views
Trump had quite a few successes in his first term - 06/12/2024 02:45:32 PM 36 Views
You mean his administration and Congress had those successes. - 06/12/2024 10:12:25 PM 45 Views
No, I mean him. *NM* - 07/12/2024 12:38:27 AM 11 Views
Okay, then I guess we're not debating it, as you like. *NM* - 07/12/2024 08:54:03 AM 13 Views
The achievements of the administration are attributed to the President. - 08/12/2024 10:50:43 AM 36 Views
Some people also think the earth is flat. - 08/12/2024 06:29:37 PM 32 Views
Le sigh - 08/12/2024 09:03:01 PM 34 Views
Make up your mind already. - 08/12/2024 10:30:11 PM 31 Views
I mostly agree, with one giant caveat - 05/12/2024 02:56:02 PM 45 Views
Re: I mostly agree, with one giant caveat - 05/12/2024 03:49:00 PM 40 Views
I take a bit of umbrage at that assignment personally - 06/12/2024 12:37:40 AM 40 Views
We've been over this - some of this is true, some is, at a minimum, not proven that I ever saw. - 05/12/2024 11:18:24 PM 38 Views
I know it was factually true - 06/12/2024 12:46:44 AM 41 Views
Sounds like you need to become a whistleblower and go talk to the FBI yourself, then? - 06/12/2024 11:37:00 AM 37 Views
Typically, whistle blower and attorney client privilege are not viewed as compatible. - 06/12/2024 03:57:12 PM 38 Views
I have a clearance - 06/12/2024 05:01:07 PM 41 Views
Re: I have a clearance - 06/12/2024 08:08:50 PM 42 Views
Secret evidence doesn't have to be believed - 07/12/2024 09:31:10 PM 40 Views
Re: Secret evidence doesn't have to be believed - 08/12/2024 03:46:54 PM 34 Views
Seriously? - 06/12/2024 10:28:07 PM 36 Views
Re: Seriously? - 06/12/2024 11:33:59 PM 34 Views
Did you even read that earlier post? - 07/12/2024 08:53:15 AM 39 Views
I can't believe I'm siding with Tom here - 07/12/2024 01:50:15 AM 37 Views
I guess you kinda have to with your profession. - 07/12/2024 07:46:01 PM 34 Views
Re: I guess you kinda have to with your profession. - 07/12/2024 08:07:28 PM 38 Views
See my other reply above then. *NM* - 07/12/2024 09:43:37 PM 12 Views
You're CLEARLY a Harris plant - 06/12/2024 01:07:07 AM 40 Views
Hah, you got me! - 06/12/2024 11:49:19 AM 36 Views
I'd be hesitant to link Biden with the Democrats anymore - 06/12/2024 01:24:44 AM 40 Views
Re: I'd be hesitant to link Biden with the Democrats anymore - 06/12/2024 01:47:08 AM 34 Views

Reply to Message