Active Users:1165 Time:22/11/2024 08:32:18 AM
You sound so naive there Tom Send a noteboard - 16/07/2024 06:57:38 PM

As mentioned in the title, I agree in their two cases joining was primarily about the political benefits instead of the military ones - though since you're so eager to talk about coup attempts, I'm surprised you failed to mention the one Russian agents attempted in Montenegro to try and derail their accession to NATO. I have a feeling that the Montenegrins' love for Russia today is not what it was ten years ago anymore.

At least a dozen Russian friends are doing business and living in Montenegro and a friend who visited a few weeks ago contrasted once again how welcoming they are to Russian business and Russians as compared to EU members.
You'll have to forgive me for finding that a rather thin basis to base my belief on. I have certainly seen that Russia at the time found it reason enough to loudly complain about US support for Chechen terrorism, but that doesn't mean said complaints weren't bullshit.

There is quite a bit to it, but not in English. I don't expect to convince you.
And yet Putin clearly thought he'd easily win the war against Ukraine and take Kiev [corrected your typographical error] within a few months - nor did the West expect Ukraine to keep Russia out of this much territory for this long, either.

That's not exactly a fair presentation of the situation. Putin invaded more as a show of force designed to force a fast treaty, which you can see in how intensively Russia was negotiating with Ukraine in February-March 2022. When Russia pulled its troops from around Kiev based on a preliminary agreement, Boris Johnson flew to Kiev and convinced Zelensky to fight to the last Ukrainian instead. In a fair world, he would be hanged on the Maidan for the needless deaths he caused.

I want to stress: Russia could have held on to the territory around Kiev had it wanted to and the war would have looked very different one year in. Other than the poorly defended areas near Kharkov in Fall 2022, Russia has not been ejected forcibly from any territory in Ukraine that it took in February-March 2022.


Yet still wouldn't have had any reasons to invade Russia. And the only reason why NATO would have invested such resources into it, would have been to defend against Russian aggression.

You might as well have said, "Senators and Presidents don't have people killed, Michael". NATO is about projecting US power and control. Yugoslavia in 1999 was an attack on the flimsiest of pretexts. Libya was even worse. NATO certainly would be happy to fabricate a "humanitarian crisis" on Russia's borders as a pretext to start dictating terms or precipitating the collapse of Russia as a unified state. This has been the goal of the war party since 1991: repeat the USSR fragmentation again and again until Russia is a series of small states that cannot counter US power.
As you've noted elsewhere, before 2022 and even more so before 2014, the Europeans weren't exactly very enthusiastic about increasing their defense spending - and while the US is always keen to do so, the US really wanted and did try to make its much-discussed pivot to Asia, to spend its resources containing the new threat of China rather than the old one of the Soviet Union. If they partially stepped back from that and refocused more resources in Europe again, it's because Russia was threatening enough to make them do so.

No, no and no. The US talked about a pivot, but the military industrial complex wanted to sell weapons to countries that can pay, and there just aren't enough countries in Asia that can do that. Japan is hamstrung by its constitution, South Korea makes a lot of its own equipment due to historical circumstances, Taiwan can only buy so much both due to size and also due to the political implications of the sales, and there aren't any other countries worth speaking of.

To the contrary, the US can sell lots and lots of weapons to Europe, especially if Europeans got serious about defense. But how to do that? Oh, I know: let's poke the bear.


Political correctness is the pettiest form of casuistry.

ἡ δὲ κἀκ τριῶν τρυπημάτων ἐργαζομένη ἐνεκάλει τῇ φύσει, δυσφορουμένη, ὅτι δὴ μὴ καὶ τοὺς τιτθοὺς αὐτῇ εὐρύτερον ἢ νῦν εἰσι τρυπώη, ὅπως καὶ ἄλλην ἐνταῦθα μίξιν ἐπιτεχνᾶσθαι δυνατὴ εἴη. – Procopius

Ummaka qinnassa nīk!

*MySmiley*
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