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I don't think being generous has anything to do with it - but my exposure to it may be different. Legolas Send a noteboard - 13/04/2024 12:37:46 PM

View original postYou may be more generous than I, but I think that most people who misuse "literally" the way they do have no idea that they're being ironic, subversive, or hyperbolic with their usage of the word. I think they're literally ignorant as fuck. (Side note: I will admit that your putting forward the possibility of this usage of literally as an extension of the hyperbole to which it is mostly added made me think. And if a different type of person in a different way were using it, I might think that was an actual possibility. In actuality, I think you're just being overly generous. But, that's not an unadmirable trait. So, 'tis all good.)

So if you asked those people to provide a definition of the word 'literally' that they just used, you think they wouldn't have a clue? I find that hard to believe.

But it's true that I'm not a native speaker and although on most days I use English as much or more than Dutch, that's mostly in written form, or when spoken, it's mostly with other non-native speakers, or watching scripted television/movies, neither of which I suppose are representative of how the average American actually talks.

And I may overestimate how obvious the etymology of 'literally' is to an English speaker, I guess, since it came from French/Latin like so many English words. For me the resemblance of 'literal' to 'letter' is obvious, but I guess people might not think of it - it's certainly less obvious than if English had been more consistent and borrowed both words in the same form, like in Dutch, i.e. 'letterly' instead of 'literally'.

View original postWhile the creation of the word "umbraphile" was a not unintelligent attempt to create a useful word for people who enjoy eclipses. And, despite it being the "correct" Greek, Tom's ecleipsophilia or eclipsophile read as wrong. The former just looks like you misspelled the latter and the latter looks like exactly what it is: slapping the word eclipse onto the suffix "phile". Which, again, in Greek may be fine, but we're making English words here and umbraphile is by far the more pleasing creation. Plus, even if technically wrong, was born from careful thought.

The interesting thing about 'umbraphile' is that 'umbra' doesn't even mean 'eclipse' in Latin, it just means 'shadow', as far as I know (and as confirmed by Wiktionary, though I wouldn't claim that as the most authoritative source out there). Wiktionary also says, which seems plausible, that English 'eclipse' wasn't borrowed directly from Greek but, once again, through Latin (eclipsis) and then French - so arguably, the word 'eclipsophile' is still a Latin-Greek mixture, but then that goes for most of the Greek-based loanwords in English. As you pointed out, those generally use a Latin-ized version of the Greek word, so not 'ekleips-' but 'eclips-', not 'stadion' but 'stadium', and so on.

So it's not just about mixing two different languages, but also about a more literal etymology vs a more figurative/poetic one. And I do have to admit that I can't think offhand of any other -phile or -phobe word which doesn't just refer literally to the thing being loved or feared.

View original postSee the difference? There is one. And, in my never to humble opinion, it's an important one.

Sure, there's a difference between coining a new word that people quibble with, or misusing an existing one. But it still remains possible that in the future, the misuse has become so common that nobody calls it out or even notices it anymore.

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A gift for any umbraphiles among us - 06/04/2024 02:21:05 PM 306 Views
Umbraphile isn't a word - 08/04/2024 05:12:05 AM 119 Views
It is a word. It exists. - 08/04/2024 02:31:49 PM 102 Views
No it doesn't. Any retard can pretend a word exists but that doesn't make it so. *NM* - 08/04/2024 05:26:30 PM 53 Views
It does if enough people use it. That's how new words get created and enter a language. - 08/04/2024 05:32:46 PM 95 Views
Not exactly - 09/04/2024 01:30:30 AM 98 Views
Honey, the speakers of our language don't care about the "rules". - 09/04/2024 07:28:30 AM 125 Views
Bah - 09/04/2024 09:29:40 PM 120 Views
No, you're still wrong - 12/04/2024 12:56:49 AM 90 Views
I can see your recalcitrance won't be alleviated by logic or history. - 12/04/2024 11:49:44 AM 110 Views
You're the one ignoring logic and history - have some standards, man! - 12/04/2024 02:13:19 PM 102 Views
Can I have it both ways? - 12/04/2024 06:04:23 PM 98 Views
I've long been confused by the 'literally' debate. - 12/04/2024 09:32:29 PM 95 Views
I think perhaps it comes down to intent and knowledge. - 12/04/2024 10:42:09 PM 111 Views
I don't think being generous has anything to do with it - but my exposure to it may be different. - 13/04/2024 12:37:46 PM 88 Views
I haven't been talking about Greek per se. I'm talking about English conventions. - 13/04/2024 05:13:33 PM 98 Views
makes sense to me *NM* - 13/04/2024 11:25:03 PM 49 Views
I'm afraid I have to agree with Joe. - 12/04/2024 11:28:44 PM 107 Views
See my reply to Joe above, but regarding your specific example... - 13/04/2024 12:55:11 PM 96 Views
Yes you can have it both ways - 12/04/2024 11:16:55 PM 83 Views
One thing I won’t miss around here are the holier-than-thou pseudo-intellectuals. - 09/04/2024 08:11:57 PM 134 Views
You did *NM* - 10/04/2024 01:56:14 AM 60 Views

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