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Not surprised at all. Evil is good, lies are truth, we have always been at war with Eastasia Cannoli Send a noteboard - 25/10/2023 04:33:46 PM

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At New York Comic Con earlier this month, showrunner Rafe Judkins teased some of what's in store for season 3. Just as season 2 combined elements from both The Great Hunt and The Dragon Reborn (the second and third books in Robert Jordan's long saga),

The introduction of a trio of minor characters from Book 3 is the only element of Book 3 to make it into Season 2. And you can't even call it character introductions, since the only things we know about them as characters, is that two of them have no sexual interest in Perrin, but one of them might want to sleep with him. Hopes, dreams, likes, dislikes? Nature of their current vocation? Nah. They are conventionally attractive woman, so sex and their likelihood of engaging in it are the most important things about them.

When they were introduced in Book 3, we learned that Aviendha had a strong sense of honor and loyalty, trying to accommodate her injured cousin's dying wishes, confronting Aes Sedai in order to get her Healed and then following the people who helped her to repay that aid. We also learned that she might be required to give up her life as a warrior and that the authorities back home almost prevented her coming on this expedition. We learned at Bain & Chiad take that life so seriously, that they place their friendship and bonds as sister-warriors above even the loyalties to their respective feuding clans, and that each one risked her life in the other's home settlement to affirm that commitment. Also, the PoV characters assumed their celibate institution meant they disliked men, but they denied this.

Of that paragraph of material, only the last statement made it into the the show. That is the sum total of a book with significant coming of age character development for the four younger Emond's Fielders. If you asked the showrunners, they would undoubtedly insist that the important things were accomplished - Mat left the White Tower against the wishes of the Aes Sedai who kept him there, and Perrin freed an Aiel from a cage and fought the Children of the Light to make it stick, despite neither scene having anywhere the same meaning it had in the books. By the way, that incident for Perrin in the books introduces him to his companion for the rest of the series and his love interest, while on the show he meets someone else's love interest only, who is quite explicit that she is not interested in having sex with him.


so will season 3 feature characters and locations from the fourth and fifth books, The Shadow Rising and The Fires of Heaven.
Good news! They are going to mash together the two books universally acclaimed as the high point of the series, when they haven't done a quarter of the plot work alone to set either up. Forget character work - to the degree the show understands any of the characterization, they will simply be and do whatever is necessary for the plot at any given moment.
This means the show will explore the visit to the Aiel Waste and dive deeper into the Aiel culture, from which protagonist and Dragon Reborn Rand al'Thor (Josha Stradowski) was born before being adopted by Tam and taken to the village of Two Rivers.
Is Rand actually the protagonist, or just a prop for the female characters? In what way would anyone, based solely on the on-screen material, define him as the protagonist?

Nor can you honestly say he was born from the Aiel culture. He was born to a wetlander tourist, and born in violation of their cultural rules and laws. From the moment of his birth, the closest he has ever come to an Aiel-blooded person was when he passed through a town with an Aiel corpse in it on the show, and when they all converged in Tear at the end of Book 3.


Speaking of, The Wheel of Time will also return to Two Rivers – which, if Nynaeve's (Zoë Robins) dream visions are to be believed, isn't in great shape.

It's being depicted by this show. It can't be in good shape.
There will also be more Aes Sedai politics at the White Tower, and an introduction to the culture known as the Sea Folk.

Considering they were unable to leave the White Tower and Aes Sedai politics out of the season based on a book which had none of it, hardly news.
But most exciting of all, season 3 will reveal more about the Forsaken — the powerful dark magicians who have been sealed away for thousands of years. Ishamael (Fares Fares) has been part of the show since the beginning (in season 1 he even pretended to be the Dark One himself),

Did he really? Or did some chucklefuck characters call him the Dark One for no reason?
while season 2 introduced viewers to the beautiful Lanfear (Natasha O'Keeffe). Lanfear's signature specialty of Dreamwalking will get more screentime in season 3,

It got too much screentime in season 2, for something that was utterly irrelevant to the plot. It was really just an excuse for artistic expression by the costume department.
but she now has to worry about her ancient rivals scheming against her.

"Once they're all out, you get two really fun things," Judkins tells EW. "One, each of these characters is an immortal person of incredible power that has three thousand years of history behind them.


They have a much more ordinary time period of history behind them, because they've been asleep for 3000 years.
Hopefully that scene with Moghedien is a real signal to the audience that you may love Ishamael and Lanfear,

Why would we? What reasons has the show given us to love them?


but also each of these people is totally unique and crazy in their own way."

Judkins reveals fans will also get to see the "fun, 'who's a Cylon' storyline" when episodes return.


In other words, they still have not learned their lesson from how the "fun" 'who's a Dragon' storyline.
"Are there any Forsaken hiding in our world that we're meeting in season 3? In the books, each of them appears in their own way that's unique to that Forsaken. And so it's a really fun thing to unravel in the show because they're almost like representatives of these different versions of evil. Moghedien's fun because she is not driven by love in the way that Lanfear and Ishamael are,

Tell me how Lanfear or Ishamael were driven by love, or any way at all in which you showed that on-screen.

In the books, Lanfear was driven by vanity, ambition and lust for power, and clearly and obviously mistook her selfish attachments as love. Ishamael was driven by the exact and completely opposite of a love, a nihilistic hatred of life and existence.



and she is a much more dangerous character because of that."

Moghedian was more dangerous because she was more concerned with survival and eliminating her enemies than posturing or making a show of power. That is 180 degrees in opposition to everything we have been shown of her on-screen, where she postured, antagonized someone more poweerful than she, and did nothing effective to stop Lanfear or cover her own ass.
The last time all 13 Forsaken were alive in the world, the Dragon was incarnated as Lews Therin Telamon (Alexander Karim). That was thousands of years ago, but what happened back then is still a driving force in what they do and what they want.

"Both Ishamael and Lanfear get another shot with this person that they were very close with and ended up becoming mortal enemies of," Judkins says. "So with Lanfear it's like, is she trying to recapture love with this man she loved three thousand years ago? Is she starting to fall for Rand, or does she hate Rand and only love the pieces of him that are Lews? That is so interesting and complicated, and that's a relationship that can sustain a lot of seasons of interest because both of their perspectives on it are f—ed up and unique in a way that is very cool for the show. We get to explore something that you don't get to explore very often."

The unexpected romance blossoming between Lanfear and Rand, even as Moiraine (Rosamund Pike) warned her protégé to stay far away from the Daughter of the Night,


Really? Because I seem to recall Moiraine telling Rand to communicate with her in his dreams and turning to Lanfear to help them break Rand out of captivity and get them to Falme.
was one of the most fun elements of season 2. Judkins says he and the rest of The Wheel of Time team worked hard to get their relationship right.
And failed, as epically as they have done in every other aspect.
"In the books. I don't know if you ever believe Rand's going to be with Lanfear," Judkins says. "But we felt like for that character to work in the visual medium of television, you needed to be able to believe that there's some chance that those two could end up together.

Why? You were never supposed to believe Rand and Lanfear would end up together. You were supposed to see her as a ticking time bomb, who would become a major threat the moment she realized what we knew all along, that Rand had zero interest in a relationship with her and would never give her an inch.
So one of the things we did right up front was in the casting process, we did chemistry reads with Josha and potential Lanfears because we were like, you have to feel that there's something real between these two."
They went to all that effort for yet another mislead of the audience, for a character who, if what they say above is true, will be gone after no more than eight more episodes.
Judkins continues, "we just tried to humanize her in every way we could because a lot of her stuff in the books is a little bit more straight-down-the-middle evil early on. By the end of the book series, you really come to understand who she is as a woman, which makes her lovable even when she's doing horrible things. We tried to bring that and put it all in season 2."
What, out of everything on the screen, was supposed to make her lovable? What were we supposed to understand about her as a woman?

For that matter, what are the Forsaken? The show has never made that clear. From people propriating them with prayers and incense in both seasons, to Lanfear's slit throat regenerating, to the scene of Lews Therin and a group of Aes Sedai appearing to bind or banish Ishamael with a magic circle, the inference is that they are demons or supernatural entities of some kind. So how are we supposed to get invested in Lanfear as a woman, when we have no reason to believe she is one?


The Wheel of Time season 2 is streaming now on Prime Video. A release date has not yet been announced for season 3, which should give us all time to catch up on the books.

I have doubts about the actual reading ability of anyone who is that seriously invested in this show.
Bolding mine. Look, we all know I despise Rafe and think he is an imbecile. But did anyone ever think that Selene/Lanfear/Cyndane was lovable? That's a new one for me. Crazy ex girlfriend turned into psychological dream terror instigator and mass murderer from the AOL sure. And that is lovable? By the end of Fires of Heaven she tries to kill Rand for sleeping with Aviendha. That's still lovable? I mentioned in one of the earlier posts in a reply that I thought they might try to rehabilitate Lanfear and I am really suspecting this is going to be the case. Also, to reiterate, Rafe is the Dark One.

Also, trying to do research on Lanfear to try to remember if there was anything redeeming about her, I learned that Lanfear/Cyndane survived The Last Battle. Which has blown my mind. Links to Lanfear surviving the book series.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aTwpNP67A4M&t=1269s

https://winteriscoming.net/2023/01/10/brandon-sanderson-reveals-huge-secret-about-final-wheel-of-time-book-memory-of-light/2/#:~:text=She%20survived%20The%20Wheel%20of,it%20is%20that%20Lanfear%20does.&text=Sanderson%20has%20been%20surprised%20that,in%20A%20Memory%20of%20Light.


Sanderson is such a contemptible hack. His bare minimum of technical competence at writing which allows him to recognize the problems of the show does not change that his own depiction of the series demonstrates gross misunderstandings of the characters, setting, themes and morality.

Everything about this secret plot in the book screams incompetence and fixation on all the wrongs things on his part. He says that people didn't pick up on the clues and inconsistencies, but that's because everything he wrote was inconsistent with the established characters! How are we supposed to know the difference between Cyndane acting out of character in aMoL, because she is Up To Something, and because EVERYONE is out of character in aMoL? There is also the fact that he felt compelled to set up a paper trail, so fans didn't accuse him of retconning her survival also speaks to his consciousness about his work. He is thinking of his audience, not his characters and story, and is more concerned about the fourth wall than the three we paid money to see. Of course, this was obvious with his immersion-breaking IRL people inserted as minor characters into his WoT books, and fan servicing plots.

But what was to be gained by the idea that Cyndane/Lanfear survived? How does that service the story? It doesn't affect the characters, because the only two it might concern, are explicitly cited in Sanderson's commentary as being deceived. So what point, other than to offer fan-fiction writers a jumping off point for their post-series scribblings.

What is REALLY out of character about Lanfear/Cyndane, is going to the trouble of this elaborate deception. Lanfear is rather incompetent at deception and manipulation, because they require a degree of understanding of other people, and she is among the most solipsistic of those extremely self-absorbed Forsaken. Her pose of Selene is extremely unsubtle and her efforts to persuade Rand, ham-fisted. Her attempts to persuade Mat in the White Tower are equally over-bearing and clumsy as is her attempt to induce the Wonder Girls to go to Tear. Her disguise as Keille in the Three Fold Land is even more half-assed than Selene, who was too tall & distinctive-looking to pass for a Cairhienin noble. The only way she fools Rand at all is because Kadere happened to bring along a gold-digging bimbo whose behavior served as a red herring. Super-skank Isendre was so Lanfear-like that Rand wasn't sure which blatant fraud was which. Rand, Asmodean and Rahvin stand out as people she attempted to manipulate for her own purposes, all of whom ignored her and did their own thing, in the case of the two former, actually using her to pursue their own goals with a better payoff than Lanfear offered. She is also completely lacking in self-control, even when she knows better. But Sanderson wants us to believe she has the patience to play a long con on Rand and Perrin to fake her own death and escape Tarmon Gaidon unnoticed. Because she is beautiful, powerful and wants to ride Rand's bone train, so this absolutely makes her a character who needs to survive, because That Would Be Cool. I'm glad he's feeling all hot and bothered about the version of the story the show is excreting with his name in the credits, and I am glad its fan-girls are turning on him for his efforts to distance himself from it.

Cannoli
“Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.” GK Chesteron
Inde muagdhe Aes Sedai misain ye!
Deus Vult!
*MySmiley*
Comparing Sanderson's descriptions & Graendal to Jordan's
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The Wheel of Time showrunner discusses the Forsaken and what's coming in season 3 - 25/10/2023 10:50:23 AM 330 Views
Not surprised at all. Evil is good, lies are truth, we have always been at war with Eastasia - 25/10/2023 04:33:46 PM 224 Views
No Stone of Tear? And where the F is Callandor? Good grief. - 25/10/2023 05:20:26 PM 171 Views
By the way, there is no way in hell Rafe read the books..... - 25/10/2023 05:35:23 PM 174 Views
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ *NM* - 25/10/2023 05:59:08 PM 75 Views
Rafe: "Lanfear is 2cute2b4saken" *NM* - 26/10/2023 05:40:12 PM 76 Views
Phew, he really doesn't understand the Forsaken - 29/10/2023 01:29:04 AM 199 Views

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