Active Users:1184 Time:22/11/2024 08:22:44 PM
Not reading comprehension. Thinking comprehension... and it's not on my account entyti Send a noteboard - 09/05/2022 11:04:57 PM

So? I never said the Texas ban was anything other than what it was. When I referenced drawing the line at meiosis, I was indicating the line is arbitrary, and there's lack of consensus across the religion/science divide. I never said that was the line the Texas law was drawing.

That's not quite what happened, and you can look at the thread. You pulled meiosis out of you fourth point of contact, then dismissed the entire anti-abortion stance based on this extreme argument. Like a reverse Motte and Bailey.


Whether you misinterpreted that wilfully or because you failed to understand is beside the point. In either case, you're distracted by rage, performative or otherwise, because the facts of what I said aren't something you can argue with.

Facts? What facts? You do know what a fact is, right? Nevermind, I don't want to make your brain work too hard.


It's not difficult at all. I've spent a considerable part of my research career working on embryonic mice. Embryos and fetuses are not individual lives. There's nothing individual about them till they're delivered. No definition of individual fits. Potential for life is not life.

I feel sorry for you. So pumped with ideological nonsense that you don't understand how to reason through an argument.


I used meiosis as the extreme to which you can take where life begins. I used that as the outer boundary of where some people see life beginning at. Whether you hold to that, or the first detection of a heartbeat, or 15 weeks, there's good scientific evidence to rebut your claim. There's no individual if the division from the mother ends life. At that point, what we have is a division, a part, of the mother. And she is the sole determiner of what happens to that part of her body.

You seem to be under the misapprehension that it's somehow easier to rebut meiosis as the start of life than the other cutoffs used here. It is not. Life doesn't start till the fetus is developed enough to survive on its own.


Actually it's quite easy to rebut meiosis as the beginning point of life. Meiotic cells do not grow into anything once made. They do not consume outside nutrients, divide further, or progress in any way. An egg will only remain an egg. A sperm is nothing but a sperm. Show me a human that has come to being from only one of these, and you might have the beginnings of an argument.

And science is pretty clear on the fact that it is the zygote that is the beginning of life. Let me be clear, I would not necessarily use this line to determine any laws regarding abortion. But the line is not arbitrary. There are unique cells with a unique genetic signature growing, and they do not belong to the mother.

This is even demonstrated in cases where Rh negative mothers have an Rh-positive baby, then develop antibodies to the Rh protein, complicating downstream pregnancies. This is not an autoimmune disorder. It is a complication that arises from the interaction with two bodies that have unique genetic signatures and epigenetic expressions.

If you want to look at arbitrary lines, then look no further than your definition that life begins when the "fetus is developed enough to survive on its own." No child, pre or post natal, is developed enough to survive on it's own. Tell a newborn to go get it's own dinner, and see how long it survives.

But perhaps you are referencing the ability to remove the fetus from the mother and still ensure its survival. This is also arbitrary, as scientific breakthroughs have moved this line several times, and likely will continue to move this line if progress continues.


Post viability, I can certainly see an argument to define the start of life. But when it comes to that life or the life of the mother, this is again not a place where government has any business deciding which life to pick. The risk analysis is entirely up to the woman. No one has the right to force her to give up <I>her</I> life for the life she carries. No more than anyone can mandate that someone donate their organs.

Why is this hypothetical woman giving up her life? Are you referencing situations where the life of the mother is in jeopardy? Or do you simply mean that her quality of life will suffer because she now has a child depending on her?

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Abortion in the South, and soon, probably all over the country - 25/04/2022 01:26:45 AM 1081 Views
that is the trouble here - 25/04/2022 05:02:46 PM 292 Views
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and yet... - 26/04/2022 10:35:58 PM 271 Views
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Obvious intent my ass - 05/05/2022 06:32:10 AM 220 Views
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Hardly just mine - 06/05/2022 09:23:32 PM 193 Views
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Serious reading comprehension fail here... - 08/05/2022 05:01:28 PM 220 Views
Not reading comprehension. Thinking comprehension... and it's not on my account - 09/05/2022 11:04:57 PM 231 Views
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a few final thoughts - 07/05/2022 07:18:38 PM 290 Views
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There is an easy answer for you. - 09/05/2022 03:53:42 PM 238 Views

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