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The memo is clearly not nonsense to the extent it shows abuse within the FBI. Tom Send a noteboard - 03/02/2018 10:15:49 PM

You could get a ham sandwich through FISA court, obviously. I don't think anyone is arguing otherwise. It's gross and disgusting and needs to change. But that is not the story.

The story is that the FBI is supposed to be apolitical and supposed to have clean hands when it applies to FISC. In this case it was blatantly neither. While I would hope this would lead to a sweeping reform of the FISA system generally, I'm not going to hold my breath on that one. Even so, Strzok and Ohr both clearly violated the FBI's code of conduct.

Furthermore, regardless of whether there ever was "collusion" between President Trump and Russia, this investigation started based on a calumnious report that was supported by itself, essentially. The entire accusation and subsequent investigation was generated out of nothing, and they knew it was generated out of nothing. Steele's report was supported by the Yahoo news story, which was the result of Steele talking to Yahoo. Some of the FBI team knew that and didn't care.

If Mueller gets someone on "obstruction of justice" on the basis of a bad faith investigation I would certainly argue "fruit of the poisonous tree" on appeal. You, FBI, made up a story. You knew you made it up. You then got Congress to authorize an investigation on the basis of lies and you charged my client with obstructing your spurious and illegally initiated investigation.

Political correctness is the pettiest form of casuistry.

ἡ δὲ κἀκ τριῶν τρυπημάτων ἐργαζομένη ἐνεκάλει τῇ φύσει, δυσφορουμένη, ὅτι δὴ μὴ καὶ τοὺς τιτθοὺς αὐτῇ εὐρύτερον ἢ νῦν εἰσι τρυπώη, ὅπως καὶ ἄλλην ἐνταῦθα μίξιν ἐπιτεχνᾶσθαι δυνατὴ εἴη. – Procopius

Ummaka qinnassa nīk!

*MySmiley*
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So that memo was released.... Jeordam - 02/02/2018 06:59:35 PM 1199 Views
"God's in His heaven— All's right with the world!" Roland00 - 02/02/2018 07:14:41 PM 736 Views
Just reading the memo is indeed the best approach, I just did too. Legolas - 02/02/2018 08:20:01 PM 750 Views
I find it hard to believe the Obama appointees in the DoJ did not know where the dossier came from *NM* AgentApple - 02/02/2018 09:17:06 PM 370 Views
As do I. Was that supposed to have any relevance to my post? *NM* Legolas - 02/02/2018 09:34:57 PM 410 Views
Re: As do I. Was that supposed to have any relevance to my post? AgentApple - 02/02/2018 10:37:21 PM 669 Views
Yes, you did misunderstand me then. Legolas - 03/02/2018 12:17:27 AM 677 Views
yes, that's makes sense. AgentApple - 03/02/2018 09:41:46 AM 567 Views
It does bring up more questions... Jeordam - 02/02/2018 10:53:01 PM 707 Views
Seems you already decided on some answers in advance, though. Legolas - 03/02/2018 01:53:00 AM 568 Views
With over 34,000 FISA applications just 12 (not 12,000 or 1200 or 120) were denied. Tom - 03/02/2018 04:07:24 PM 723 Views
Correction: "just under", not "over" 34,000 Tom - 03/02/2018 10:08:54 PM 649 Views
Bah! LiterateDog - 03/02/2018 11:53:05 PM 653 Views
Ok, I really did laugh out loud at that Tom - 06/02/2018 09:16:50 PM 519 Views
Those are the ones we have to watch! aerocontrols - 04/02/2018 12:48:49 AM 628 Views
He's the primary demographic for the 4Chans, isn't he? *NM* Tom - 06/02/2018 09:15:47 PM 381 Views
This part was quite revealing The Shrike - 02/02/2018 08:23:28 PM 599 Views
I do find it very telling how many members of the media are suddenly opposed to transparency random thoughts - 02/02/2018 08:51:28 PM 584 Views
Ironic, right? Anonymous2000 - 02/02/2018 09:12:43 PM 549 Views
So you are saying the House Intelligence Committee SHOULD release Schiffs rebuttal of Nunes' lies? Joel - 03/02/2018 03:58:13 AM 677 Views
I am for releasing all of it random thoughts - 04/02/2018 12:28:57 AM 655 Views
You, Sen. Kennedy (R-LA) and NO ONE ELSE on the right. Joel - 04/02/2018 07:41:17 AM 1010 Views
To summarize..... Anonymous2000 - 02/02/2018 09:12:06 PM 622 Views
I seem to recall much incredulity when Trump claimed he was being wire tapped AgentApple - 02/02/2018 09:15:14 PM 588 Views
Er. Let me see if I'm getting this right. Legolas - 02/02/2018 09:34:14 PM 639 Views
They did somehow tap Flynn AgentApple - 02/02/2018 10:44:55 PM 583 Views
Keep in mind Sessions wanted Rosenstein to resign random thoughts - 02/02/2018 11:28:52 PM 506 Views
Why would SESSIONS want Rosenstein fired? Joel - 03/02/2018 05:22:16 AM 628 Views
It was on a list of about 40 Sessions wanted fired. Probably becuase he is a lib *NM* random thoughts - 04/02/2018 12:31:13 AM 400 Views
Sessions is a lib? Do you mean Libertarian? Joel - 04/02/2018 07:57:45 AM 1050 Views
No, they tapped the Russian Ambassador to the US, per SOP; not the FBIs fault Flynn called him. Joel - 03/02/2018 03:59:54 AM 579 Views
no but were they listening when he spoke to Trump? random thoughts - 02/02/2018 11:25:30 PM 575 Views
Nope, just listening to the Russian Ambassador when Flynn repeatedly called during the campaign Joel - 03/02/2018 04:11:27 AM 604 Views
Actually, also, seems I missed a fairly crucial point until now, as did others here... Legolas - 03/02/2018 01:15:10 AM 699 Views
If working with a forgein agent is such a sin... random thoughts - 02/02/2018 11:22:41 PM 593 Views
You're saying oppo research should have its own kind of Jones Act? Legolas - 03/02/2018 12:51:27 AM 573 Views
No I am saying that it seen as crimianl when one side does and no big deal when the other does it random thoughts - 03/02/2018 01:15:22 AM 601 Views
I believe campaign aid from foreign private citizens OR govt is equally illegal, FWIW Joel - 03/02/2018 04:28:14 AM 521 Views
Actually, JEB BUSH hired the former MI6 agents firm to do oppo research on Trump during the primary Joel - 03/02/2018 04:03:08 AM 671 Views
Sometimes I forget how right-wing most everyone here is. The memo itself is just nonsense. Ghavrel - 03/02/2018 02:44:16 AM 677 Views
Ironic, since Republicans Mueller, Comey and Wray threatened to resign over Ws warrantless taps Joel - 03/02/2018 04:07:10 AM 593 Views
I can't speak for the present with too much information is unknown Roland00 - 03/02/2018 04:51:14 AM 613 Views
Everyone looks right wing to someone on the far left. The Shrike - 03/02/2018 03:04:48 PM 571 Views
The memo is clearly not nonsense to the extent it shows abuse within the FBI. Tom - 03/02/2018 10:15:49 PM 618 Views
Fruit of the poisonous tree wouldn't apply here, though. Ghavrel - 04/02/2018 05:40:44 AM 619 Views
I would certainly argue it Tom - 05/02/2018 04:55:18 PM 519 Views
I think you'd win! Insofar as you'd get the FISA warrant excluded. Ghavrel - 07/02/2018 07:01:42 AM 633 Views
Actually, everyone I have seen exposing the material falsehoods Nunes invented are Republicans Joel - 03/02/2018 03:54:03 AM 669 Views
Dear Joel, damookster - 03/02/2018 04:31:18 AM 664 Views
I have Joel - 03/02/2018 05:09:19 AM 583 Views
You’re getting to old to be this naive damookster - 03/02/2018 05:17:44 AM 576 Views
Never said either side is the good guys Joel - 03/02/2018 05:36:55 AM 576 Views
Don't feed the Joel. Tom - 03/02/2018 10:17:12 PM 551 Views
Turn him to any cause of policy, The Gordian Knot of it he will tangle, Familiar as his garter Roland00 - 03/02/2018 10:51:36 PM 615 Views
I sort of want to like this, but your answers keep getting weirder and weirder *NM* Tom - 06/02/2018 09:17:42 PM 324 Views
WSJ source Roland00 - 03/02/2018 05:04:04 AM 719 Views
You believe the commie liberals at Rupert Murdochs Wall Street Journal? Joel - 03/02/2018 05:14:08 AM 591 Views
well as long as you have an unnaamed source it must be true *NM* random thoughts - 04/02/2018 01:05:36 AM 414 Views
What is your point? *NM* Roland00 - 04/02/2018 01:53:37 AM 345 Views
What is yours? random thoughts - 04/02/2018 04:30:51 PM 505 Views
We are having completely different conversations right now, and completely different things we are Roland00 - 04/02/2018 11:38:35 PM 653 Views
Yeah, look what happens when you shit on the Fourth Amendment. Vodalus - 03/02/2018 09:09:00 PM 590 Views
Right, because the President of the United States is just a private citizen Joel - 04/02/2018 08:08:32 AM 1002 Views
The point was that the people in power want the Fourth Amendment to apply, or not, as they see fit. Vodalus - 06/02/2018 08:16:19 PM 503 Views
The key issue is being ignored random thoughts - 04/02/2018 04:35:32 PM 529 Views
Answer = Hell Yes Anonymous2000 - 04/02/2018 09:00:49 PM 530 Views
Does anybody still cares about the Nunes memo? I ask for the Schiff memo was released? Roland00 - 26/02/2018 11:14:51 PM 741 Views
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