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Gender has had a non-grammatical meaning since the 1950s, and you know it. Ghavrel Send a noteboard - 27/07/2017 03:05:09 AM

For what it is worth, I think your "transsexual and not transgender" argument is somewhat persuasive. I don't think you can reasonably argue that 1) gender is a social construct, 2) trans people have significant biological differences from the norm, and 3) trans people therefore differ as to gender. I think transsexualism is probably a more appropriate word.

I'm not convinced by the idea that, assuming arguendo gender is wholly a social construct, it can be manipulated entirely by therapy (e.g. "pray the trans away" ). Plenty of things are social constructs which can't easily be discarded.

"We feel safe when we read what we recognise, what does not challenge our way of thinking.... a steady acceptance of pre-arranged patterns leads to the inability to question what we are told."
~Camilla

Ghavrel is Ghavrel is Ghavrel

*MySmiley*

This message last edited by Ghavrel on 27/07/2017 at 03:05:34 AM
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Thoughts on the internet outrage over Trump's transgenders in the military announcement damookster - 26/07/2017 05:42:34 PM 872 Views
Maybe because.... Jeordam - 26/07/2017 06:08:16 PM 429 Views
I get that damookster - 26/07/2017 06:12:35 PM 428 Views
I don't think that your reasoning is flawed.... Jeordam - 26/07/2017 06:31:06 PM 484 Views
bottom line damookster - 26/07/2017 06:40:36 PM 449 Views
*shrug* Jeordam - 26/07/2017 07:05:17 PM 399 Views
I dare say a lot of the rhetoric is seriously over the top... Legolas - 26/07/2017 06:13:59 PM 435 Views
like I replied to Jeo, I don't see this as a betrayal of the LGBT cause damookster - 26/07/2017 06:19:01 PM 470 Views
LGB is not the same as T. We need to stop treating it all the same. Tom - 26/07/2017 06:58:05 PM 433 Views
No the least of which... Jeordam - 26/07/2017 07:06:21 PM 478 Views
Physical mutilation is a more appropriate word. Tom - 26/07/2017 07:07:33 PM 436 Views
You're correct.... Jeordam - 26/07/2017 09:28:20 PM 414 Views
Not always, keep that in mind. Legolas - 26/07/2017 07:35:34 PM 442 Views
I would still consider that.... Jeordam - 26/07/2017 09:02:36 PM 457 Views
John McCain is the Left's favorite RINO Tom - 26/07/2017 08:09:41 PM 475 Views
He's not a RINO. Just built his career on being independent-minded. Legolas - 26/07/2017 09:49:32 PM 477 Views
I really don't see the independence. Where is it? Tom - 27/07/2017 01:33:27 AM 430 Views
So which is it, is he a RINO or a faithful Republican foot soldier? Legolas - 27/07/2017 08:08:04 PM 475 Views
RINOs are a pack. Tom - 28/07/2017 12:46:44 AM 436 Views
Agreed with McCain The Shrike - 27/07/2017 03:35:06 PM 438 Views
It makes eminent sense why trannies shouldn't be allowed. Tom - 26/07/2017 06:57:00 PM 448 Views
I tried to keep my points to the logic of excluding an 18 yr old trans person damookster - 26/07/2017 07:16:37 PM 485 Views
I don't have any desire to stop people from doing it Tom - 26/07/2017 07:32:08 PM 420 Views
I agree damookster - 26/07/2017 07:59:18 PM 506 Views
Absolutely agree on all counts *NM* Cannoli - 27/07/2017 06:40:03 AM 243 Views
You don't need to be 'straight' to fight and die for your country. You just need to shoot straight. Joel - 27/07/2017 10:14:11 PM 426 Views
You're an idiot. *NM* Tom - 28/07/2017 12:47:21 AM 248 Views
You also need to pass some sort of physical standards Cannoli - 28/07/2017 03:52:14 AM 465 Views
So I was reading.... Jeordam - 26/07/2017 09:07:11 PM 453 Views
This is part of my point Tom - 26/07/2017 09:47:39 PM 449 Views
The rate goes down significantly after transition. Ghavrel - 26/07/2017 11:24:50 PM 434 Views
Bullshit. Tom - 27/07/2017 01:40:05 AM 550 Views
I also like that study because it uses correct terminology: transsexual, sex-reassigned. Tom - 27/07/2017 01:42:19 AM 452 Views
Gender has had a non-grammatical meaning since the 1950s, and you know it. Ghavrel - 27/07/2017 03:05:09 AM 433 Views
And people misuse the subjunctive all the time. Your point? Tom - 27/07/2017 04:57:19 AM 427 Views
Re: And people misuse the subjunctive all the time. Your point? Ghavrel - 27/07/2017 02:13:57 PM 440 Views
That's not necessarily a biological difference Tom - 27/07/2017 05:03:30 PM 475 Views
or liposuction or laser fat removal too. *NM* damookster - 27/07/2017 05:06:56 PM 264 Views
Facelifts, tummy tucks, collagen implants, nose jobs... *NM* Tom - 27/07/2017 05:09:01 PM 242 Views
Not bullshit. The rate decreases. It is still elevated relative to the general population. Ghavrel - 27/07/2017 03:00:15 AM 450 Views
"transition is the cure" Tom - 27/07/2017 04:50:11 AM 443 Views
Sloppy wording on my part. Transition is currently the most effective known cure. Ghavrel - 27/07/2017 02:18:41 PM 446 Views
Yes, but that just argues against transsexuals in the military either way Tom - 27/07/2017 05:04:39 PM 403 Views
Yes, and I don't feel particularly strongly about the current fiasco for that reason. Ghavrel - 27/07/2017 05:51:29 PM 428 Views
Yes, I am waiting for one of our veterans to weigh in with their thoughts. *NM* damookster - 27/07/2017 06:13:19 PM 234 Views
For what it's worth.... Jeordam - 28/07/2017 10:36:22 PM 472 Views
I have a friend who was an officer in the army who feels the same way. Ghavrel - 29/07/2017 12:37:48 AM 429 Views
which should then close the debate on the original question damookster - 27/07/2017 05:07:34 AM 458 Views
Exactly. *NM* Tom - 27/07/2017 01:26:48 PM 255 Views
Well, to the extent that it covers people with dysphoria, sure. Ghavrel - 27/07/2017 02:26:26 PM 410 Views
As I said above, Viagra treats a dysfunction Tom - 27/07/2017 05:08:19 PM 443 Views
also, to a point you made earlier damookster - 27/07/2017 05:39:32 PM 398 Views
Well, that's an argument for not putting them in roles where they can be captured, sure. Ghavrel - 27/07/2017 05:53:02 PM 410 Views
The argument is that transition corrects the dysfunction of gender dysphoria. Ghavrel - 27/07/2017 05:49:24 PM 391 Views
So let me understand your position correctly via asking a few questions Roland00 - 28/07/2017 04:01:50 AM 464 Views
Too long Tom - 28/07/2017 01:54:11 PM 440 Views
The main reason for the post was the standard you created Roland00 - 28/07/2017 05:00:27 PM 412 Views
Reductio ad absurdum, Roland? damookster - 28/07/2017 05:29:23 PM 422 Views
I know Tom and Cannoli don't care, but on the off chance that you do... Ghavrel - 29/07/2017 12:39:16 AM 433 Views
I didn't realize that damookster - 29/07/2017 01:10:30 AM 386 Views
Also trivia Roland00 - 29/07/2017 01:22:37 AM 397 Views
No worries. I'm not offended. I just thought you might want to know. *NM* Ghavrel - 29/07/2017 02:32:01 AM 222 Views
Thanks damookster - 29/07/2017 03:25:08 AM 391 Views
I don't? *NM* Cannoli - 29/07/2017 08:23:14 AM 252 Views
Yeah, I really don't care. Though I use the term for a different reason. Tom - 29/07/2017 07:12:03 PM 439 Views
So right now let me share the joke that is happening in my mind Roland00 - 29/07/2017 07:28:22 PM 373 Views
Girlfriend Mookie, you are projecting onto me. Roland00 - 29/07/2017 01:17:47 AM 451 Views
I absolutely respect you, Roland/Matt damookster - 29/07/2017 01:40:28 AM 373 Views
We are cool Roland00 - 29/07/2017 02:36:00 AM 432 Views
Blah blah blah and now I am showing off like an asshole Roland00 - 29/07/2017 02:52:48 AM 402 Views
you're a nice guy, Roland00 damookster - 29/07/2017 03:22:15 AM 419 Views
OMG mookie gave me the Nice Guy speech / Good Guy speech Roland00 - 29/07/2017 07:41:23 PM 367 Views
I've never seen Newsroom damookster - 29/07/2017 08:00:38 PM 401 Views
Teases I'll get you, my pretty, and your little dog too! Roland00 - 29/07/2017 09:13:30 PM 401 Views
Nah, I'm not that subtle. damookster - 29/07/2017 11:01:39 PM 367 Views
Edit: Double Posted due to bad wifi *NM* Roland00 - 28/07/2017 04:01:51 AM 220 Views
Serving its end: As long as everyone argues over this, no one talks about Trumpcare nor Russiagate Joel - 27/07/2017 10:05:00 PM 392 Views
What's horrible is the portmandu with -gate......Can we just let that one go yet? *NM* Jeordam - 27/07/2017 10:51:20 PM 207 Views
Joel, seriously damookster - 29/07/2017 08:33:14 PM 432 Views
No the real boogeymen are the ones we do not see with our eyes, but are still lurking in the shadows Roland00 - 29/07/2017 09:16:34 PM 366 Views
And Rejoice Roland00 - 29/07/2017 09:17:42 PM 403 Views
You are mixing up your metaphors, it is sleight of hand not sleight of mind Roland00 - 29/07/2017 09:20:17 PM 396 Views
Everybody Is Missing The Mark Here MrFarstrider - 29/07/2017 10:25:04 PM 501 Views
Nice comments. Thanks for that explanation. *NM* damookster - 29/07/2017 11:15:29 PM 240 Views
Also, For the Record MrFarstrider - 30/07/2017 08:02:58 AM 458 Views
Incite or Insight *NM* Roland00 - 01/08/2017 06:30:28 AM 225 Views
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