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Re: I think it started to change in the 1980s Ghavrel Send a noteboard - 27/06/2017 09:05:23 PM

There's been such a split that I usually try to make the distinction between "leftists" and "progressives," with the former focusing more on labor issues and the latter focusing more on identity politics. There is of course substantial overlap, but there are a lot of pissed off members of each group who want nothing to do with the other. The vitriol hurled between the Clinton and Sanders camps is a good example of that mechanic at work.


View original postIf you look at the pre-Woodstock/hippie culture in America, you see the phrase "liberal" applied to people in the Democratic Party who were for civil liberties (free speech, free press, etc. ) and who also believed in the New Deal and the idea of the safety net. This was back when the American Civil Liberties Union fought tooth and nail to let the Nazi Party march through Skokie, Illinois, and most of the Left supported the ACLU position as much as they hated the Nazis (1977).

This, unfortunately, seems to be a dying breed. You either get yelled at by scrawny Antifa wannabes for allowing conservatives to walk the streets unmolested or you get labelled a racist for saying college students shouldn't pull fire alarms to interrupt speakers with shitty views.

"We feel safe when we read what we recognise, what does not challenge our way of thinking.... a steady acceptance of pre-arranged patterns leads to the inability to question what we are told."
~Camilla

Ghavrel is Ghavrel is Ghavrel

*MySmiley*

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Case study of the damage liberalism can do - $15 Min Wage Anonymous2000 - 27/06/2017 01:54:54 AM 1341 Views
Seattle is a poor choice for a case study damookster - 27/06/2017 05:31:18 AM 683 Views
Well, sure, but many of those non-entry level jobs are being held by baby boomers. Ghavrel - 27/06/2017 06:09:40 AM 704 Views
That's at least in part because the minimum wage makes automation more cost-effective Cannoli - 27/06/2017 11:04:28 AM 632 Views
Exactly. If you have to pay people $15/hour as a McDonald's cashier, put in the robots instead. Tom - 27/06/2017 07:18:11 PM 674 Views
That is an incredibly silly argument. Ghavrel - 27/06/2017 08:56:09 PM 676 Views
If you assume wages can't go lower... Cannoli - 29/06/2017 04:52:33 AM 698 Views
Many? damookster - 27/06/2017 12:30:39 PM 684 Views
Amen. Tom - 27/06/2017 07:21:47 PM 655 Views
Yes, many. My office is full of them. Ghavrel - 27/06/2017 08:59:55 PM 607 Views
So is life. damookster - 27/06/2017 09:29:01 PM 640 Views
Re: So is life. Ghavrel - 27/06/2017 09:49:21 PM 644 Views
My father worked two jobs his entire working life. damookster - 27/06/2017 09:56:56 PM 634 Views
We have a 40 hour work week for a reason. Ghavrel - 27/06/2017 10:17:15 PM 688 Views
That's a piss-poor analogy damookster - 27/06/2017 10:23:04 PM 642 Views
How is that really relevant, then? Ghavrel - 27/06/2017 11:03:34 PM 604 Views
I am really enjoying this new-fangled "like" feature we have now. *NM* Clover - 28/06/2017 12:13:42 AM 489 Views
*NM* Ghavrel - 28/06/2017 12:25:45 AM 360 Views
Personal choice damookster - 28/06/2017 12:20:47 AM 706 Views
Re: Personal choice Ghavrel - 28/06/2017 12:32:31 AM 654 Views
In theory I agree with your ideas about a living wage, however The Shrike - 28/06/2017 12:16:56 PM 655 Views
Very good questions Tom - 28/06/2017 03:01:02 PM 644 Views
FULLY AUTOMATED LUXURY SPACE COMMUNISM. Ghavrel - 28/06/2017 07:49:59 PM 775 Views
Also, curtailing immigration, like keeping the minimum wage low, really only delays the inevitable. Ghavrel - 29/06/2017 11:05:58 PM 641 Views
damn *NM* damookster - 27/06/2017 09:29:01 PM 432 Views
Just retire already, you luddite! *NM* Ghavrel - 27/06/2017 09:45:46 PM 445 Views
I wish. damookster - 27/06/2017 09:48:02 PM 671 Views
Bad life decisions lead to bad life consequences random thoughts - 28/06/2017 05:44:58 PM 633 Views
You also shouldn't respond to it by letting them die. Ghavrel - 28/06/2017 07:53:10 PM 629 Views
But this same arguement can be flipped by.... Jeordam - 28/06/2017 10:34:25 PM 702 Views
I feel like you're making my arguments for me here. Ghavrel - 28/06/2017 10:51:38 PM 738 Views
an apt comparison damookster - 28/06/2017 11:09:25 PM 608 Views
So everyone who "can't" nossy - 29/06/2017 09:49:41 AM 626 Views
ummm damookster - 29/06/2017 02:06:54 PM 565 Views
I know. And I disagree with you. nossy - 29/06/2017 04:58:45 PM 668 Views
Health care and minimum wage are different discussions damookster - 29/06/2017 05:14:07 PM 644 Views
I think nossy and I are ok with letting lazy people get by... Ghavrel - 29/06/2017 08:11:36 PM 649 Views
Si nossy - 29/06/2017 09:08:03 PM 649 Views
Who said that? damookster - 29/06/2017 09:47:32 PM 729 Views
Who said what? nossy - 29/06/2017 10:32:12 PM 595 Views
There is a huge difference.... Jeordam - 29/06/2017 05:10:05 PM 650 Views
Hyperbole is all well and good for internet memes but it really doesn' advance your argument. random thoughts - 03/07/2017 04:22:59 PM 563 Views
Why does McDonalds keep coming up in this? Cannoli - 29/06/2017 06:53:46 AM 785 Views
Nicely said. Or written. *NM* AgentApple - 29/06/2017 09:30:06 AM 399 Views
All right, so what society without minimum wage do you point to as a model? *NM* Ghavrel - 29/06/2017 09:39:12 AM 430 Views
How about "all the ones we had before the 20th century"? Cannoli - 29/06/2017 10:47:30 PM 770 Views
The ones where hunger and scarcity were widespread? Ghavrel - 29/06/2017 11:04:02 PM 619 Views
So just to put this out there... Jeordam - 29/06/2017 11:12:47 PM 604 Views
Re: So just to put this out there... Ghavrel - 30/06/2017 01:34:03 AM 591 Views
Yes, and me being SUCH a fan of urbanization... Cannoli - 30/06/2017 03:39:51 PM 777 Views
The example for this post was for Seattle, or perhaps King County only. damookster - 29/06/2017 11:49:32 PM 713 Views
"Attract labor"? Minimum wage labor? I believe you mean, violently repell businesses Cannoli - 30/06/2017 03:31:36 PM 687 Views
Like anything else not addressed in the Constitution, it should be up to state and local government damookster - 30/06/2017 05:22:51 PM 672 Views
I for one am entirely unsuprised. Common sense result. *NM* Urza - 27/06/2017 06:23:01 AM 387 Views
Seems like a methodology to identify struggling operations more than one to evaluate... Vodalus - 27/06/2017 10:25:30 AM 659 Views
But the traffic is the WORST. Clover - 28/06/2017 12:47:13 AM 715 Views
You are a Husky? TIL clover is one of the Huskies. Roland00 - 28/06/2017 02:26:46 AM 574 Views
Re: But the traffic is the WORST. Vodalus - 28/06/2017 10:38:54 AM 621 Views
Just to nitpick, Switzerland isn't exactly homogeneous. Legolas - 28/06/2017 10:28:01 PM 663 Views
Don't say "liberalism" - there's nothing liberal about them. Say "Leftism". *NM* Tom - 27/06/2017 05:07:36 PM 356 Views
I was thinking the same. Even in the US, that's a weird context to use that word in. *NM* Legolas - 27/06/2017 05:50:21 PM 392 Views
Most Americans have no idea about the historical context of Liberalism. The Shrike - 27/06/2017 06:03:38 PM 626 Views
But even so, surely even in the US the main connotation is with social progressives, not economic? Legolas - 27/06/2017 06:28:54 PM 619 Views
I think it started to change in the 1980s Tom - 27/06/2017 07:14:26 PM 529 Views
Re: I think it started to change in the 1980s Ghavrel - 27/06/2017 09:05:23 PM 613 Views
Whether or not their views are shitty is a subjective determination Tom - 27/06/2017 11:15:22 PM 627 Views
A decade under conservative deans would fix the situation nicely, I think. Ghavrel - 27/06/2017 11:24:41 PM 581 Views
Yes! I wonder what Dean Wormer from Faber is doing these days... *NM* Tom - 28/06/2017 12:03:46 AM 278 Views
So I've been thinking through this whole minimum wage thing.... Jeordam - 28/06/2017 05:47:26 PM 706 Views
It varies fairly significantly from location to location. MIT has a decent calculator. Ghavrel - 28/06/2017 07:56:41 PM 1151 Views
Re: So I've been thinking through this whole minimum wage thing.... Cannoli - 29/06/2017 05:08:56 AM 681 Views
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