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Re: As a fellow "Never Slytherin"... Ghavrel Send a noteboard - 27/06/2017 01:15:15 AM

View original postI'm a little surprised to find myself disagreeing with most of your points here.

Nonsense. My points are eminently brilliant and well justified.
View original postFirst off, it is not really fair to just lay out the negative aspects of all the Slytherins like that, especially when ALL of her characters had rather ignoble and selfish traits. Let's consider some notable Gryffindors: Ron was shallow and downright peevish at times, Harry had cruel moments, and I have to agree with The Shrike about Percy, who was possibly the least sympathetic character in the books.

Of course. There are people who do bad things everywhere. Rowling did a great job of fully realizing her characters. But Harry (whiny) and Ron (deeply insecure) and Hermione (actually probably the least flawed person in the series) are people who, for the most part, think of others before themselves--whether that's running after Voldemort in Philocerer's Stone or setting up Dumbledore's Army. Draco's "redemption" and Snape's bravery are fueled by their love for a limited, specific set of people.


View original postThen we have Dumbledore, who was sorted into Gryffindor yet exemplified so many Slytherin traits. He was extraordinarily manipulative, believed the ends justified the means, and seemed far more interested in secret power/control than in the trappings of Gryffindor glory. He was willing to sacrifice Harry in order to achieve what he considered to be the victory condition. Yes, everything worked out and Harry did survive in the end, but there were countless moments when that was not guaranteed, not to mention the layers of trauma.

Dumbledore is a pretty awful person in many ways, and if most of Gryffindor were like him I'd be willing to agree with you.
View original postSnape? Was not willing to sacrifice Harry; did not even want to let Dumbledore (an adult, an elderly soldier) die; yet sacrificed himself without a complaint. Seems pretty damn Gryffindor-y.

I'm admittedly selling Snape short here, but there are plenty of people as brave as Snape in other houses. Snape is remarkable precisely because he's apparently the only Slytherin willing to sacrifice himself. Ron sacrificed himself in the first book in the chess game, and he was what, ten? Eleven? I don't remember when kids get their owl letters.
View original postIt's possible I'm giving Rowling too much credit here, but I always felt like the main point she was trying to make with the Hat was that we all have some of each House within us. Not all in equal quantity, but still present. And the House you are placed in perhaps has more to do with the way you try to represent yourself than it does the innermost contents of your heart. The two do not always match, especially when we're young. Still, the label you choose goes on to shape your experiences and reputation.

I agree with this.
View original postI think the popularity of Slytherin may have something to do with this idea and the fact that we all have at least some Ambition/Cunning/Selfishness, but Slytherins are the ones who deceive themselves about it the least. And this appreciation for authenticity (even when it's ugly and dark) seems to be gaining wider cultural traction. Maybe we believe that acknowledging our flawed humanness could actually be helpful to society? The alternative, where everyone tries to live up to an impossible ideal, does often result in closeted horrors.

I agree with this, too, but I don't like it. We should recognize our flaws, but we shouldn't revel in them.
View original postI also think that Rowling did not so much fall victim to an overly simplistic Slytherin=EVEEL trope (except for what Paul said about The Battle of Hogwarts; that part definitely was oversimplified and frankly cheap). I actually think it may be that she felt a bit too compelled by her own darlings, namely Snape and Draco. Her disposition towards the Snape character arc puts her very much with the Snape fangirls, and I suspect she had a lot of sympathy for Draco as well. Whether her vision translated perfectly, whether you agree with the balance of virtue vs. sin - that's a different question. But I don't think she hated Slytherin at all; I think she probably loved both Draco and Snape enough to think they filled the need for complex Slytherins and even went a long way towards redeeming the worthless Salazar (and Voldemort, naturally).

Oh, there's no doubt in my mind that I come down much more harshly on Snape and Malfoy than most, including Rowling. I think part of it is having gone to school for a period of time with incredibly rich children--I don't have a ton of sympathy for them, especially given that some were delightful, kind, and empathetic. Admittedly, I found them to be in the minority.



View original postFor full disclosure, I am a proud Ravenpuff. I know I have Slytherin traits within me, but I don't tend to think they're a huge part of my overall makeup, nor do I really feel any pull to identify with them more (of course it's also possible I'm lying to myself and/or am a self-righteous fool ). However, I agree with Paul about needing proud Slytherin-types in society. Just, you know, maybe not quite so many need to be lawyers.

I like to think I'd end up in Gryffindor, but I don't know if I'm courageous enough. Probably would end up in Ravenclaw.
"We feel safe when we read what we recognise, what does not challenge our way of thinking.... a steady acceptance of pre-arranged patterns leads to the inability to question what we are told."
~Camilla

Ghavrel is Ghavrel is Ghavrel

*MySmiley*

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What the hell is with people's fondness for Slytherin? Ghavrel - 26/06/2017 09:48:07 AM 1029 Views
Contrarian & deconstructionist fashions Cannoli - 26/06/2017 11:13:55 AM 680 Views
I think it's more because people are rejecting facile black-and-white depictions of the world. Tom - 26/06/2017 02:27:21 PM 640 Views
I can't help but think a children's series is the wrong venue for this sort of protest. Ghavrel - 26/06/2017 05:52:52 PM 634 Views
I can't help but think a children's series is the perfect venue for such a protest. Tom - 26/06/2017 07:45:47 PM 534 Views
Claps *NM* Roland00 - 27/06/2017 09:38:46 AM 386 Views
Maybe there's also room for different takes on morality in children's books? Legolas - 26/06/2017 07:58:21 PM 644 Views
I mean, I tend towards black and white morality as a general principle, so... Ghavrel - 27/06/2017 12:46:53 AM 529 Views
How is Gondor theocratic? I think I missed something *NM* Ghavrel - 26/06/2017 05:45:55 PM 387 Views
Appendix J to the Return of the King is essentially just religious laws of Gondor. Tom - 26/06/2017 07:49:08 PM 572 Views
I remember the first time reading those appendices at the end of The Return of the King The Shrike - 26/06/2017 08:09:18 PM 622 Views
I recall that one. Very bittersweet. As is most of the end of the trilogy. *NM* Ghavrel - 27/06/2017 12:43:16 AM 410 Views
I didn't say it was, I said that people like coming up with nonsense like that *NM* Cannoli - 27/06/2017 11:05:58 AM 421 Views
I got placed into Slytherin at Pottermore back in the day. The Shrike - 26/06/2017 01:30:13 PM 668 Views
Re: I got placed into Slytherin at Pottermore back in the day. Ghavrel - 26/06/2017 05:43:34 PM 661 Views
Your replies do show a large streak of Slytherinesque views. I think you were mishoused. The Shrike - 26/06/2017 06:06:09 PM 681 Views
Nah. I have vague glimmerings of a conscience. Disqualifying trait for House Sociopath. *NM* Ghavrel - 26/06/2017 06:08:44 PM 371 Views
Ah I see. You're in denial. In the closet as it were. The Shrike - 26/06/2017 06:27:37 PM 488 Views
Yet you're studying for the bar so you can join Profession Sociopath. Tom - 26/06/2017 07:56:47 PM 616 Views
Ugh. Don't remind me. *NM* Ghavrel - 26/06/2017 07:58:03 PM 354 Views
Meanwhile future "sociopath" The Shrike - 28/06/2017 12:20:27 PM 531 Views
I'm going into public defense. Don't be too proud of yourself. Ghavrel - 28/06/2017 08:31:04 PM 633 Views
Just a self-righteous and masochistic form of sociopath. *NM* Tom - 28/06/2017 10:05:18 PM 444 Views
But intensely charitable in its sociopathy! Ghavrel - 28/06/2017 10:54:14 PM 507 Views
How many years, do you guess, as a PDA before he bails for the bucks? damookster - 28/06/2017 11:13:43 PM 545 Views
I went to law school specifically to be a public defender. Bailing is unlikely. Ghavrel - 29/06/2017 12:19:42 AM 608 Views
You are an American, bail---ing is part of our judicial system Roland00 - 29/06/2017 02:45:05 AM 618 Views
I thought about making that pun but demurred. Ghavrel - 29/06/2017 03:22:46 AM 528 Views
Well we slytherin folk we have our own role models in regards to humor Roland00 - 29/06/2017 04:50:58 AM 535 Views
Well we slytherin folk we have our own role models in regards to humor Roland00 - 29/06/2017 04:50:58 AM 645 Views
The Practice aired what 8 seasons, 7 with Bobby, only to be replaced with the much better show Roland00 - 29/06/2017 02:42:07 AM 511 Views
I re-watched the eight HP movies a while back. Legolas - 26/06/2017 07:38:39 PM 678 Views
You think "Eyebrows" Watson improved the films? Yeesh. *NM* Ghavrel - 27/06/2017 01:59:55 AM 559 Views
What do her eyebrows have to do with anything? And yes, I do. *NM* Legolas - 27/06/2017 06:13:20 AM 423 Views
They comprise about 98% of what passes for her acting ability. Ghavrel - 27/06/2017 06:14:31 AM 521 Views
Nonsense. She does a great job - at least in those movies, haven't seen her in anything else. Legolas - 27/06/2017 06:20:26 AM 569 Views
Hasn't BEEN in anything else. That anyone else saw, anyway. Cannoli - 27/06/2017 03:18:48 PM 658 Views
Pretty sure that a lot of people saw her in Beauty & The Beast The Shrike - 27/06/2017 03:26:29 PM 595 Views
In which, incidentally, she could neither act nor sing. *NM* Ghavrel - 28/06/2017 03:13:32 AM 422 Views
That's not the point. The point is she was seen in a film that garnered over $1billion. *NM* The Shrike - 28/06/2017 12:18:14 PM 399 Views
The point is she hasn't been in anything that would support a positive assessment of her ability Cannoli - 01/07/2017 02:56:26 PM 553 Views
Voldemort came from Slytherin. He was awesome. Tom - 26/06/2017 01:50:46 PM 604 Views
*NM* Ghavrel - 26/06/2017 05:44:33 PM 393 Views
One of the rather few things in the series that I'd say Rowling got wrong... Legolas - 26/06/2017 07:32:43 PM 593 Views
I agree with most of this. Ghavrel - 27/06/2017 01:03:19 AM 677 Views
As a fellow "Never Slytherin"... Clover - 27/06/2017 12:22:17 AM 859 Views
Re: As a fellow "Never Slytherin"... Ghavrel - 27/06/2017 01:15:15 AM 598 Views
Perhaps the houses Roland00 - 28/06/2017 01:44:35 AM 589 Views
Anti-hype? nossy - 27/06/2017 10:35:22 AM 598 Views
Ok, so, everybody beat me to it nossy - 27/06/2017 10:45:33 AM 579 Views
Nossy you are our hufflepuff Roland00 - 28/06/2017 01:47:40 AM 564 Views
Re: Anti-hype? Cannoli - 27/06/2017 03:24:12 PM 607 Views
Re: Anti-hype? Ghavrel - 28/06/2017 03:21:59 AM 452 Views
Re: Anti-hype? nossy - 28/06/2017 01:14:09 PM 532 Views
Stop it, you are meant to enjoy the books not analyze them to death. Roland00 - 28/06/2017 01:40:41 AM 515 Views
I don't watch anime. RWBY is safe. *NM* Ghavrel - 28/06/2017 03:12:56 AM 299 Views
Hun, that product is made in America it is not Anime Roland00 - 28/06/2017 03:17:45 AM 532 Views
That's anime. I don't watch anime or its derivatives. But if you want me to criticize it... *NM* Ghavrel - 28/06/2017 03:23:01 AM 347 Views
Perhaps you should watch it Roland00 - 28/06/2017 03:29:59 AM 467 Views
Enjoyment =/= thinking about, or having feelings toward, something. Good to know Cannoli - 01/07/2017 02:57:42 PM 503 Views
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