My thoughts, crippled by not having played the game
Cymbaline Send a noteboard - 03/02/2010 04:52:26 AM
Right you are about not playing the game, though there are two facets to it. The first, like you remember, is the perceived shift away from being an RPG. It's hard, or at the very least a subject you could argue on, to define what constitutes an "RPG" in the video game-related sense. As for things that typically go hand in hand with the genre, I'd say I more or less agree with your list. To address what I think you missed:
Equipment - One I don't believe you mentioned, and one that I've heard has been heavily revamped (read: almost entirely eliminated) in such a fashion that I suspect I'd call it the opposite of an improvement
Exploration - For me, this is a big one. One of the things I loved about the first game was wandering around the space station, talking to all these crazy people from other races and planets, and generally feeling like I was living in another world that was full of people. The Mako sections go under this heading, and definitely could have used improvement, but I'd have opted for improvement, not elimination. I've heard there are some side quests you can run, but that the whole "huge open area and lots of side quests that can be going on at the same time" aspect of the game has been scaled back significantly, if not eliminated outright.
To reiterate what I've heard other people say, it's like they heard all of the complaints against the game - crappy inventory management and equipment choices, boring Mako segments - and rather than improve them, they just eliminated them. Those were things that I actually really like about the RPG genre (equipment and exploration), and to see them axed like that does not make me enthusiastic.
If a friend brings it over (which won't happen, since I'm the only person I know in real life that's even vaguely interested in the franchise), I'm willing to give it a play. I'm not going to spend $60 on it, though (particularly after having been burned by Uncharted 2, which I think will share a key fault with ME2).
This is actually my other problem with the game - the shift toward being an FPS. I know that that genre moves units like nobody's business, and hey, they're in the business of making a dollar, but there is no better way to turn me off of a title than to throw FPS action into the mix.
I hate FPSes. I loathe them. The long story, should anyone care, is that I played them - primarily Quake, Quake 2 (by far the leader), Quake 3, and Counterstrike - almost nonstop for two years, and then fairly frequently for another two. I have burned myself out on the genre completely. When I was little, the only bread my mom would make sandwiches out of was wheat bread. To this day, I can't get a piece of wheat bread past my throat. Same thing. I'm not saying that FPS games suck (though I do think the FPS genre is one of the most stale, overdone, lowest-common-denominator, and innovation-free segments of the video game world, but that's another story), but what I am saying is that I do not like it, and I will not like it even if it's good, and even if it's great. It's still an FPS. Some people don't listen to rap, some people don't eat Mexican, some people don't watch TV; I don't play FPSes. They are like digging a ditch or watching grass grow or getting punched in the back repeatedly - they are the very opposite of fun.
Which brings me back to the producer's comment: I suffered through the combat in the first - suffered, as I absolutely hated it - so that I could level up, get new equipment, explore, do side quests, and see the story through. When I hear that the second game has ratcheted up the elements I hate to the point that they're now dominant and eliminated a significant portion of what I endured that shit for, I'm not interested in playing anymore. Maybe the story is more taut and even more well-executed. Maybe the character advancement is intact and refined. It doesn't matter, because the FPS still overrides everything. Even if the biotic plays more like an RPG, it's still an FPS. I do not buy that it's that different. You still hide behind crates, you still try to put enemies in the center of your crosshairs, you still shoot people. I played a biotic in the first game (if my memory serves), and I did not enjoy combat in the least. From everything I have read, Mass Effect moved from 1/3 FPS & 2/3 RPG to 1/3 RPG and 2/3 FPS. That is the difference between playing and not playing for me.
Equipment - One I don't believe you mentioned, and one that I've heard has been heavily revamped (read: almost entirely eliminated) in such a fashion that I suspect I'd call it the opposite of an improvement
Exploration - For me, this is a big one. One of the things I loved about the first game was wandering around the space station, talking to all these crazy people from other races and planets, and generally feeling like I was living in another world that was full of people. The Mako sections go under this heading, and definitely could have used improvement, but I'd have opted for improvement, not elimination. I've heard there are some side quests you can run, but that the whole "huge open area and lots of side quests that can be going on at the same time" aspect of the game has been scaled back significantly, if not eliminated outright.
To reiterate what I've heard other people say, it's like they heard all of the complaints against the game - crappy inventory management and equipment choices, boring Mako segments - and rather than improve them, they just eliminated them. Those were things that I actually really like about the RPG genre (equipment and exploration), and to see them axed like that does not make me enthusiastic.
Ultimately, I think that you or anyone else who is upset about the perceived move away from RPG towards shooter should give it a shot first, Cymbaline.
If a friend brings it over (which won't happen, since I'm the only person I know in real life that's even vaguely interested in the franchise), I'm willing to give it a play. I'm not going to spend $60 on it, though (particularly after having been burned by Uncharted 2, which I think will share a key fault with ME2).
Oh yeah, if you read my other post you know that I talked to the producer for a little while. One of the questions I asked him was if he had an answer for some of my friends who were leery of the game because of the shift towards shooter. He advised me that "they" (and I was thinking of you, Cymbaline) should avoid the run-and-gun classes, like the soldier, and try the others, like the infiltrator, biotic, etc. They tend to be less action and less FPS, and play more similarly to a traditional RPG. Straight from the horses' mouth, so take it with a grain of salt, but hey.
This is actually my other problem with the game - the shift toward being an FPS. I know that that genre moves units like nobody's business, and hey, they're in the business of making a dollar, but there is no better way to turn me off of a title than to throw FPS action into the mix.
I hate FPSes. I loathe them. The long story, should anyone care, is that I played them - primarily Quake, Quake 2 (by far the leader), Quake 3, and Counterstrike - almost nonstop for two years, and then fairly frequently for another two. I have burned myself out on the genre completely. When I was little, the only bread my mom would make sandwiches out of was wheat bread. To this day, I can't get a piece of wheat bread past my throat. Same thing. I'm not saying that FPS games suck (though I do think the FPS genre is one of the most stale, overdone, lowest-common-denominator, and innovation-free segments of the video game world, but that's another story), but what I am saying is that I do not like it, and I will not like it even if it's good, and even if it's great. It's still an FPS. Some people don't listen to rap, some people don't eat Mexican, some people don't watch TV; I don't play FPSes. They are like digging a ditch or watching grass grow or getting punched in the back repeatedly - they are the very opposite of fun.
Which brings me back to the producer's comment: I suffered through the combat in the first - suffered, as I absolutely hated it - so that I could level up, get new equipment, explore, do side quests, and see the story through. When I hear that the second game has ratcheted up the elements I hate to the point that they're now dominant and eliminated a significant portion of what I endured that shit for, I'm not interested in playing anymore. Maybe the story is more taut and even more well-executed. Maybe the character advancement is intact and refined. It doesn't matter, because the FPS still overrides everything. Even if the biotic plays more like an RPG, it's still an FPS. I do not buy that it's that different. You still hide behind crates, you still try to put enemies in the center of your crosshairs, you still shoot people. I played a biotic in the first game (if my memory serves), and I did not enjoy combat in the least. From everything I have read, Mass Effect moved from 1/3 FPS & 2/3 RPG to 1/3 RPG and 2/3 FPS. That is the difference between playing and not playing for me.
www.scienceofshape.com | www.ancillarymusic.com | www.whysohostile.com
Why not? Let's have a Mass Effect thread.
02/02/2010 05:02:32 PM
- 3618 Views
Character discussion: Mordin Solus
02/02/2010 06:28:41 PM
- 1857 Views
Mordin Solus is great
02/02/2010 08:21:26 PM
- 1282 Views
Actually, that's what happened to me too.
02/02/2010 08:33:22 PM
- 1414 Views
The Illusive man
02/02/2010 08:34:09 PM
- 1484 Views
I didn't even realize that's who he was.
02/02/2010 08:44:07 PM
- 1411 Views
"I'm having trouble hearing you. I'm getting a lot of bullshit on this line." *NM*
02/02/2010 09:34:53 PM
- 692 Views
Who is sharing your bed?
02/02/2010 09:42:09 PM
- 1409 Views
Tali for my male Shepherd
04/02/2010 03:52:03 PM
- 1294 Views
Does she take the helmet off? *NM*
04/02/2010 07:57:18 PM
- 719 Views
I went simple - Miranda.
07/02/2010 06:32:25 AM
- 1210 Views
Which reminds me that I always wondered...
07/02/2010 11:54:14 AM
- 1327 Views
You probably wouldn't be able to woo anyone by being a total dick. *NM*
07/02/2010 03:32:41 PM
- 691 Views
I was lucky enough to meet the game's producer... (No spoilers)
02/02/2010 10:58:59 PM
- 1444 Views
No spoilers here either, as per my rules. Regarding the ammo:
03/02/2010 04:51:54 AM
- 1267 Views
I just want to be part of this....that said, Best Buy is no longer selling ME:1
02/02/2010 11:16:51 PM
- 1408 Views
Could well be.
03/02/2010 04:52:49 AM
- 1163 Views
Glad the PC version was $50, at the risk of sounding like a snob.
03/02/2010 04:01:52 PM
- 1203 Views
Mass Effect 1 vs 2: RPG-shooter vs Shooter-rpg (This is for you, Cymbaline!) (No spoilers)
02/02/2010 11:28:24 PM
- 1379 Views
My thoughts, crippled by not having played the game
03/02/2010 04:52:26 AM
- 1476 Views
The "Holy crap that was awesome" moments. SPOILERS
03/02/2010 11:27:55 PM
- 1339 Views
Re: The "Holy crap that was awesome" moments. SPOILERS
04/02/2010 04:59:54 AM
- 1236 Views
Re: The "Holy crap that was awesome" moments. SPOILERS
04/02/2010 06:16:29 AM
- 1342 Views
Well. . .somewhat, I guess.
04/02/2010 06:43:02 AM
- 1359 Views
Re: Well. . .somewhat, I guess.
04/02/2010 03:32:26 PM
- 1300 Views
You know what? I'll actually buy that. I appreciate the explanation.
04/02/2010 06:30:37 PM
- 1119 Views
A couple of more things......
16/02/2010 12:41:19 AM
- 1359 Views
Game was too easy, primary plotline too short
04/02/2010 09:03:52 PM
- 1290 Views
Nice. I'm playing through on Insanity now, and I think it's a good challenge.
05/02/2010 02:17:02 AM
- 1196 Views
Whats your character build?
05/02/2010 02:45:31 PM
- 1453 Views
Ok, so male or female Shepherd?
05/02/2010 01:50:23 AM
- 1220 Views
Hm. This brings up a thought.
05/02/2010 01:52:37 AM
- 1160 Views
Male for my first playthrough, female for my second.
05/02/2010 02:28:24 AM
- 1320 Views
Male so far. I plan on playing the female Shepard next playthrough. *NM*
05/02/2010 03:25:00 AM
- 740 Views
Your Teams, and Your Deaths.
07/02/2010 06:30:25 AM
- 1143 Views
Re: Your Teams, and Your Deaths.
07/02/2010 09:07:17 AM
- 1330 Views
Do you know...
07/02/2010 03:46:59 PM
- 1148 Views
Re: Do you know...
07/02/2010 04:31:29 PM
- 1230 Views
Awesome. Thanks! *NM*
07/02/2010 04:40:59 PM
- 720 Views
Yeah, that's what I did.
07/02/2010 06:37:50 PM
- 1099 Views
Hmmm...
09/02/2010 03:48:48 PM
- 1178 Views
Strange.
09/02/2010 04:19:04 PM
- 1227 Views
me too
13/02/2010 03:01:05 PM
- 1218 Views
Did you do Legion's loyalty mission?
15/02/2010 05:52:36 AM
- 1318 Views
I did, for what it's worth.
15/02/2010 07:26:38 AM
- 1243 Views
Gah. Then I wonder if loyalty of the rest of the crew has something to do with it.
15/02/2010 04:20:13 PM
- 1209 Views
I have come across a big problem.
07/02/2010 06:53:36 PM
- 1256 Views
Want FREE Mass Effect 2 DLC? ME 2! (har, har) Bioware bonus goodies detailed inside.
09/02/2010 07:03:23 PM
- 1376 Views
Now if only the DLC armors didn't have helmets.
09/02/2010 07:26:47 PM
- 1160 Views
Of course, the Shotgun is released AFTER I beat my Vanguard *sigh*
09/02/2010 11:31:13 PM
- 1237 Views
It's nice, but you don't miss much if you already had the Claymore shotty w/ an ammo upgrade. *NM*
10/02/2010 05:16:00 AM
- 669 Views
Anyone find anything interesting about Zaeed Massani?
11/02/2010 09:08:16 PM
- 1253 Views
I enjoy Zaeed.
11/02/2010 09:22:39 PM
- 1208 Views
I'm near your spot in the story and completely agree. One-sided conversations, but worthwhile. *NM*
11/02/2010 10:20:47 PM
- 600 Views
Yeah, I've listened to him alot but it's the same stuff every time.
12/02/2010 03:14:11 PM
- 1164 Views
Who, what, where? *NM*
22/02/2010 08:18:31 PM
- 630 Views
If you bought a new copy of the game, it came with a code for the "Cerberus Network"
22/02/2010 08:22:18 PM
- 1167 Views
Is there a way to install the game on the Xbox, so you don't have to switch discs?
12/02/2010 01:39:07 AM
- 1196 Views
Good ones have two discs, of course. DVDs can only hold so much. *NM*
12/02/2010 02:46:39 AM
- 628 Views
This is the first I've ever seen. *NM*
12/02/2010 02:51:34 AM
- 660 Views
I've never understood why people are unhappy with the multiple discs.
12/02/2010 04:18:42 AM
- 1201 Views
So far, so great!
12/02/2010 08:35:00 AM
- 1175 Views
Re: So far, so great!
12/02/2010 02:31:43 PM
- 1281 Views
Re: So far, so great!
16/02/2010 10:17:12 PM
- 1231 Views
Nope, I was referring to honest-to-goodness cheating. lol
16/02/2010 11:03:53 PM
- 1274 Views
Ahh, I just figured you were on console as I am, so.....the grind will continue I guess *NM*
17/02/2010 06:41:59 PM
- 712 Views
I love the detail put into this game.
12/02/2010 02:58:35 PM
- 1156 Views
"Our amino acids aren't even compatable so there's no risk if we go natural."
12/02/2010 03:15:50 PM
- 1209 Views
Re: "Our amino acids aren't even compatable so there's no risk if we go natural."
12/02/2010 07:16:21 PM
- 1136 Views
"Technically we don't even have sex drives... oh, she is rather flexible...." *NM*
12/02/2010 07:20:53 PM
- 658 Views
Female Turians....
12/02/2010 09:05:39 PM
- 1134 Views
Nope. Don't exist in-game.
14/02/2010 01:47:23 AM
- 1102 Views
I believe a krogan female is shown once.
14/02/2010 02:03:27 AM
- 1188 Views
No I don't think that's right.
14/02/2010 08:54:32 AM
- 1117 Views
Asari
15/02/2010 06:51:10 AM
- 1243 Views
Not really.
15/02/2010 10:41:54 PM
- 1167 Views
Though it is fun seeing the asari coupled with basically every race under the sun.
15/02/2010 10:54:41 PM
- 1192 Views
The final verdict
22/02/2010 08:06:12 PM
- 1204 Views
By the way, my game was surprisingly buggy
23/02/2010 08:49:28 AM
- 1299 Views
A complaint about the Morality system. (Or, how Mass Effect semi-killed roleplaying).
27/02/2010 06:40:35 AM
- 1295 Views
Re: A complaint about the Morality system. (Or, how Mass Effect semi-killed roleplaying).
27/02/2010 12:28:29 PM
- 1131 Views
Re: A complaint about the Morality system. (Or, how Mass Effect semi-killed roleplaying).
27/02/2010 04:57:43 PM
- 1185 Views
Re: A complaint about the Morality system. (Or, how Mass Effect semi-killed roleplaying).
28/02/2010 12:34:31 AM
- 1236 Views
A vital part of role-playing is forcing the player to deal with the consequences of their actions
27/02/2010 11:53:56 PM
- 1465 Views
Admittedly, my post was somewhat stream-of-consciousness.
28/02/2010 03:28:02 AM
- 1162 Views