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I LOL'd a bit. Zalis Send a noteboard - 10/02/2011 04:08:12 PM

That right there is why I prefer JRPGs. When I play Western RPGs (note that I'm speaking in generalizations here), I feel like I'm on rails. True, I can customize my character to some extent, but it never "matters." I might do 10 damage with the shotgun and 5 with the pistol, or vice versa, but no matter which one I choose, I won't kill the boss any faster. Why? Because the game designers use a variety of tricks to keep me right where they want me. They make sure it all balances out. The stats that have a genuine effect on character power (such as experience) are carefully controlled.

Firstly, excuse the sarcastic tone I'll use. I mean no ill and respect your opinion. However, you say Western RPGs are on rails. That is exactly how I feel in nearly every JRPG I've played. That's not always a bad thing. It's just that RPGs are almost always on some sort of linear path, open world / Elder Scrolls excluded.

Sometimes, for example, there are a limited number of monsters (and, thus, available experience) in the areas I can get to. Or perhaps there's a level cap that frequently rises as plot events are completed. Maybe completing plot events gives me such huge amounts of experience that killing individual monsters is virtually meaningless. You get the idea.

Haven't played Diablo II lately, have ya?

It sounds like you enjoy hundreds upon hundreds of random encounter battles. That was fine for my taste when I was a teenager, neck-deep in SNES JRPG heaven, but not these days. I prefer a little more variety, though I do see the irony of WRPGs having their own equivalent of grind. (killing hundreds upon hundreds of Fallen Ones, yay)

...And I hate the idea. I don't care where I can walk or at what times I can perform the scripted side events; to me, those are not the important elements of role-playing. Rather, what's important to me is feeling like my actions are making a difference. If I spend some time training my character, I want to have an easier time in the next battle. If that makes the boss less difficult than intended, who cares? What's it to you, Mr. Game Designer? Let me do it that way if I want.

So-called Western RPGs are fun, but really, they don't deserve their genre. They're action games, is what they are. At best, they are action/rpg, and never rpg/action.

In hybrids in the genre, like Fallout 3, you can be over-leveled or equipped. Your actions do matter. I won't discount that you've encountered this, but I'm wondering what games you're referring to.

Honestly, I feel like most JRPGs are grind-fests until you meet the level check. The difference I find in Western RPGs is that player skill and knowledge of game mechanics can overcome stat debt. JRPGs are more by-the-number, from what I've seen.

They're different flavors, but I hardly think Japan has a grip on the some kind of one true RPG genre. CRPGs like The Witcher have a lot going on, too.

The sword might be grateful to the forge fire, but never fond of it.

This message last edited by Zalis on 10/02/2011 at 06:24:44 PM

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Is it silly of me to keep holding out hope that there will be a KotOR 3? Fox and Ravens - 09/02/2011 04:24:55 PM 936 Views

With The Old Republic, I wouldn't expect it. Zalis - 09/02/2011 05:49:20 PM 742 Views

Nope. Not any time soon, at least. lord-of-shadow - 09/02/2011 06:27:06 PM 816 Views

Thanks for that. Fox and Ravens - 09/02/2011 06:40:23 PM 678 Views

I have no answers, but on the subject ... Darth_Katie - 09/02/2011 06:28:35 PM 749 Views

It is literally amazing. Fox and Ravens - 09/02/2011 06:43:14 PM 700 Views

It's about as good as a western-style RPG has ever been. Also: best plot twist of all time. lord-of-shadow - 09/02/2011 07:12:59 PM 732 Views

But Katie, don't go looking up the plot twist before you decide to play it. Fox and Ravens - 09/02/2011 07:41:57 PM 741 Views

Thanks for the warning.

Darth_Katie - 09/02/2011 08:50:17 PM 771 Views

Oh? What's the difference? Darth_Katie - 09/02/2011 08:51:33 PM 741 Views

Ok, I may have exaggerated a little bit... lord-of-shadow - 09/02/2011 09:36:21 PM 716 Views

Ah, I see. Thanks! *NM* Darth_Katie - 10/02/2011 01:50:50 PM 368 Views

Re: Ok, I may have exaggerated a little bit... Aemon - 10/02/2011 03:47:08 PM 703 Views

I LOL'd a bit. Zalis - 10/02/2011 04:08:12 PM 843 Views

Re: I LOL'd a bit. Aemon - 10/02/2011 09:46:22 PM 680 Views

Interesting viewpoint. lord-of-shadow - 10/02/2011 10:45:25 PM 810 Views

Yeah, I thought about most of your complaints while writing that post. Aemon - 11/02/2011 02:42:16 AM 753 Views

All fair enough. And I even agree with you. lord-of-shadow - 11/02/2011 04:24:21 AM 661 Views

Re: All fair enough. And I even agree with you. Aemon - 11/02/2011 08:27:04 AM 770 Views

Out of curiosity, did you ever play Morrowind? Ghavrel - 11/02/2011 08:44:06 AM 779 Views

I played roughly halfway through. I quit when I realized how broken that game was. Aemon - 11/02/2011 05:57:04 PM 727 Views

I love a good story but abhor collections/accomplishments/completionist stuff. Zalis - 11/02/2011 07:53:48 PM 699 Views

That they do. Aemon - 11/02/2011 10:50:02 PM 649 Views

Out of curiosity, what's you're opinion on the Neverwinter Nights games? *NM* Macharius - 11/02/2011 08:18:38 PM 372 Views

I've actually never played them. Aemon - 11/02/2011 10:46:11 PM 619 Views

That was always my impression as well. *NM* lord-of-shadow - 11/02/2011 11:46:32 PM 366 Views

That article is one of the most opaque pieces of text I've ever read. Dan - 12/02/2011 02:00:03 PM 783 Views

I seriously doubt that.

Ghavrel - 12/02/2011 08:28:44 PM 658 Views

Shortly put, western RPGs are better.

Bergioyn - 09/02/2011 10:15:42 PM 748 Views

I don't know..... AliasRY - 10/02/2011 08:19:28 PM 694 Views

Ok......... AliasRY - 10/02/2011 08:20:37 PM 708 Views

? *NM* Bergioyn - 10/02/2011 10:04:48 PM 369 Views

It's very good- highly recommend it beetnemesis - 09/02/2011 08:48:13 PM 667 Views

Recommended. Bergioyn - 09/02/2011 10:12:08 PM 703 Views

Agreed Sir Tybalt - 12/02/2011 12:29:30 AM 703 Views

Since you could probably get it for five dollars, worth trying. TaskmasterJack - 09/02/2011 10:44:17 PM 678 Views

Same. I've always found it sort of meh. *NM* Ghavrel - 09/02/2011 11:41:19 PM 354 Views

It has the same chance in hell as a sequel to the Chrono series *NM* Roland00 - 11/02/2011 02:32:41 AM 324 Views

now you made me sad, i'm going to go play chrono trigger on my psx now

*NM* Apsalar Shadowdancer - 19/02/2011 04:21:04 AM 438 Views

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<quote id="190579">
<quote id="190576">That right there is why I prefer JRPGs. When I play Western RPGs (note that I'm speaking in generalizations here), I feel like I'm on rails. True, I can customize my character to some extent, but it never "matters." I might do 10 damage with the shotgun and 5 with the pistol, or vice versa, but no matter which one I choose, I won't kill the boss any faster. Why? Because the game designers use a variety of tricks to keep me right where they want me. They make sure it all balances out. The stats that have a genuine effect on character power (such as experience) are carefully controlled.</quote>

Firstly, excuse the sarcastic tone I'll use. I mean no ill and respect your opinion. However, you say Western RPGs are on rails. That is exactly how I feel in nearly every JRPG I've played. That's not always a bad thing. It's just that RPGs are almost always on some sort of linear path, open world / Elder Scrolls excluded.

<quote>Sometimes, for example, there are a limited number of monsters (and, thus, available experience) in the areas I can get to. Or perhaps there's a level cap that frequently rises as plot events are completed. Maybe completing plot events gives me such huge amounts of experience that killing individual monsters is virtually meaningless. You get the idea. </quote>

Haven't played Diablo II lately, have ya?   :)  It sounds like you enjoy hundreds upon hundreds of random encounter battles.  That was fine for my taste when I was a teenager, neck-deep in SNES JRPG heaven, but not these days.  I prefer a little more variety, though I do see the irony of WRPGs having their own equivalent of grind.  (killing hundreds upon hundreds of Fallen Ones, yay)

<quote>...And I hate the idea. I don't care where I can walk or at what times I can perform the scripted side events; to me, those are not the important elements of role-playing. Rather, what's important to me is feeling like my actions are making a difference. If I spend some time training my character, I want to have an easier time in the next battle. If that makes the boss less difficult than intended, who cares? What's it to you, Mr. Game Designer? Let me do it that way if I want. :P So-called Western RPGs are fun, but really, they don't deserve their genre. They're action games, is what they are. At best, they are action/rpg, and never rpg/action. </quote>

In hybrids in the genre, like Fallout 3, you can be over-leveled or equipped. Your actions do matter. I won't discount that you've encountered this, but I'm wondering what games you're referring to.

Honestly, I feel like most JRPGs are grind-fests until you meet the level check.  The difference I find in Western RPGs is that player skill and knowledge of game mechanics can overcome stat debt.  JRPGs are more by-the-number, from what I've seen.

They're different flavors, but I hardly think Japan has a grip on the some kind of one true RPG genre. CRPGs like The Witcher have a lot going on, too.
</quote>

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