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Ha! Larry Send a noteboard - 08/04/2010 01:49:23 PM
What if black pepper had been an indigenous plant in Europe and/or the Middle East? Not only does that impact a small but important part of medieval trade - the most long-distance one - but it also is of crucial importance to the European discovery journeys of the 15th, 16th and 17th centuries, and hence to the entire concept of colonialism.


Or what if potatoes or tobacco had not been imported from South America.


Tobacco was from North America/the Caribbean, or at least the specific species that are smoked by most people :P

Of course, if tobacco was not a cash crop, my family would never have been wealthy in the early 19th century (nor would they have lost most everything between the Panic of 1837 and the Civil War :P)


Yesyes. Details. I come from Norway. Everywhere that is warm enough for tobacco growing is per definition SOUTH.

And, of course, part of the scenario would have to be that it were never grown by European immigrants either.


It's okay. I always think "up there" for any region where snow lies on the ground more than a handful of days a year, if that much. :P

And then there's that scenario if Songhai had not been weakened by invasions from the Sahara...


Now you are back on political history.


I consider the social vacuum created by the collapse of a strong polity in the Sahel to be responsible in part for the atrocity known as the transatlantic slave trade. The social upheaval that was unleashed is something that certainly affects hundreds of millions directly and almost as many indirectly today.

That being said, some of my vocabulary would have been different if this hadn't taken place.


But that is the case with most of the political events mentioned in this thread. The interest lies in the social ramifications. The collapse of a major African kingdom is definitely a political event.


Of course, I like to think my old studies, grounded firmly in the late Weimar/pre-WWII Nazi Era, were not political in nature, although that contradictory regime certainly loomed large over everything I was researching about religious programs during that time :P


I have always preferred political history. I think that is why I did not keep studying it. It became all about fishermen and farmers, and I couldn't care less. I like the wars and revolutions and the intrigues much more than the statistics and boring. In theory social history is good, but in practice it puts me to sleep.


While it draws upon some of the same methodologies as new social history, the areas of research are much more fascinating. Ever read Carlo Ginzburg's The Cheese and the Worms: The Cosmology of a 16th Century Miller? Still one of the best microhistories produced and it dealt with a relatively educated heretic who devised a cosmology that both fit in with his times and ran very counter to it. I had to read that in my freshman honors Western Civ class and that book convinced me that I was in the right field. Also, cultural histories yielded interesting discussions about English wife swaps and "sales," some of which lasted until the late 19th century. How can stuffy political maneuverings top that? :P


Oh, I don't mind cultural history when it centers on individuals, but because there is often so little to latch on to when it comes to illiterate farmers and fishermen (which Norwegian history has to deal with for most of its ... history), it all becomes numbers. And numbers do not work in my brain.

You should review that book properly and convince me to read it :P


I don't know if I still have my freshman paper on that book or not. I did keep most of my papers to use as guides of what to and what not to do in writing the next paper :P

Maybe when I'm done with cataloging my books next week, I'll re-read it and write a commentary. And you should look into the pardon requests that were penned for illiterate French peasants in the 16th and 17th centuries. Natalie Zemon Davis wrote a nice book on those.
Illusions fall like the husk of a fruit, one after another, and the fruit is experience. - Narrator, Sylvie

Je suis méchant.
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I know I just did a survey, but this was too good to pass up. - 07/04/2010 12:44:15 AM 717 Views
Myself: World War I. - 07/04/2010 12:45:57 AM 594 Views
I don't think it's that simple. - 07/04/2010 12:57:16 AM 539 Views
I see your point. - 07/04/2010 01:02:33 AM 520 Views
Sometimes sooner is better than later. - 07/04/2010 01:10:11 AM 491 Views
True. - 07/04/2010 01:14:45 AM 505 Views
True, one might even say *adding* a war there would've improved things. - 07/04/2010 01:36:07 AM 501 Views
*nods* A small war is usually preferable to a big war. - 07/04/2010 01:49:06 AM 482 Views
The Plague - 07/04/2010 12:52:33 AM 471 Views
Re: The Plague - 07/04/2010 01:05:35 AM 379 Views
Maybe; there were episodic plague epidemics before and after that time. - 07/04/2010 02:05:18 AM 509 Views
I am talking about one of the plagues not THE plague - 07/04/2010 02:50:25 AM 475 Views
Re: I am talking about one of the plagues not THE plague - 07/04/2010 08:45:26 PM 469 Views
I'm so glad you have the time and inclination to type up these replies. *NM* - 08/04/2010 07:09:22 AM 315 Views
...? - 08/04/2010 07:51:14 PM 372 Views
Sounds like he was thanking you for saving him the effort of writing a similar reply. *NM* - 08/04/2010 09:28:55 PM 336 Views
If that is the case, then great *NM* - 08/04/2010 09:30:51 PM 298 Views
The spread of Christianity - 07/04/2010 12:55:29 AM 547 Views
Huh. Wild to think about. *NM* - 07/04/2010 01:06:44 AM 326 Views
Re: The spread of Christianity - 07/04/2010 08:47:06 PM 368 Views
Re: The spread of Christianity - 08/04/2010 09:29:17 AM 390 Views
Why would that have an impact on Judaism? - 08/04/2010 01:40:47 PM 472 Views
Re: Why would that have an impact on Judaism? - 08/04/2010 01:42:25 PM 306 Views
But wasn't Christianity the inspiration for a whole era of art? *NM* - 08/04/2010 01:41:34 PM 333 Views
Re: But wasn't Christianity the inspiration for a whole era of art? - 08/04/2010 01:44:36 PM 508 Views
precisely. - 08/04/2010 05:37:26 PM 494 Views
sorry, didn't see that Lorraine already addressed this. *NM* - 08/04/2010 07:55:00 PM 325 Views
The Partition of India, 1947... *NM* - 07/04/2010 12:59:32 AM 320 Views
Any paticular reason why? *NM* - 07/04/2010 01:34:54 AM 315 Views
Agreed. *NM* - 07/04/2010 01:59:02 AM 404 Views
The destruction of the Great Library. - 07/04/2010 01:02:59 AM 427 Views
Internet spam sucks indeed. - 07/04/2010 01:08:23 AM 556 Views
We'll never know; makes for fascinating speculative fiction. - 07/04/2010 01:13:49 AM 463 Views
This whole topic is wild, it's something I sometimes think about. - 07/04/2010 01:17:50 AM 480 Views
Ya, that's what makes history so gripping. - 07/04/2010 01:19:54 AM 577 Views
I don't know if that's really true... - 07/04/2010 01:39:51 AM 487 Views
It wouldn't have been as sudden or extreme. - 07/04/2010 01:58:39 AM 517 Views
"Joel captures Alexandria! The Great Library is destroyed!" *NM* - 07/04/2010 01:08:35 AM 196 Views
NOOOO1111 - 07/04/2010 01:11:33 AM 393 Views
A shame. It's one of the better ones, too. *NM* - 07/04/2010 01:14:20 AM 316 Views
Not in the first two Civs. - 07/04/2010 01:22:43 AM 342 Views
Civ, i love that game... - 07/04/2010 03:01:13 AM 454 Views
Yeah that's one of the small annoying things - 07/04/2010 07:34:52 AM 334 Views
An interesting point - 07/04/2010 02:57:03 AM 498 Views
That's usually my reply to this question too *NM* - 07/04/2010 11:42:55 AM 300 Views
if the giant meteor hadn't destroyed the dinosaurs... - 07/04/2010 01:10:42 AM 395 Views
"FOR" global warming? Now there's a phrase I never thought I'd here! - 07/04/2010 01:16:04 AM 331 Views
The spread of Islam - 07/04/2010 01:26:11 AM 497 Views
oh aren't you clever. *NM* - 07/04/2010 01:47:13 AM 304 Views
There's such a thing as being right for the wrong reasons, though I'm not sure he is. - 07/04/2010 02:12:14 AM 321 Views
Wikipedia is of course not a scholarly source, but all the same... - 07/04/2010 11:57:01 AM 475 Views
Fair enough. - 07/04/2010 12:51:16 PM 472 Views
I read the Bernard Lewis article referred to at Wikipedia... - 07/04/2010 01:19:03 PM 451 Views
So it's borrowed propaganda. - 13/04/2010 09:30:39 AM 442 Views
Re: The spread of Islam - 08/04/2010 09:24:31 AM 530 Views
Haha, are you kidding? - 08/04/2010 07:59:39 PM 303 Views
Re: Haha, are you kidding? - 08/04/2010 08:50:33 PM 293 Views
Ask yourself the question... - 08/04/2010 09:33:33 PM 306 Views
I don't see the connection. - 08/04/2010 08:49:46 PM 483 Views
Re: I don't see the connection. - 08/04/2010 08:51:21 PM 353 Views
I'd better not touch this one - 07/04/2010 03:12:00 AM 506 Views
The spread of Judaism. - 07/04/2010 04:30:37 AM 435 Views
Re: The spread of Judaism. - 07/04/2010 07:31:02 AM 390 Views
I...do not know. - 07/04/2010 07:18:13 AM 375 Views
Amusing that the underlying expectation seems to be more along political history lines - 07/04/2010 12:56:49 PM 555 Views
Considering the way history is taught, is it surprising? *NM* - 08/04/2010 07:11:03 AM 290 Views
Nope, not really - 08/04/2010 10:24:54 AM 476 Views
Here's one that'll be more to your liking... - 08/04/2010 10:40:53 AM 313 Views
Yes - 08/04/2010 10:52:11 AM 450 Views
Re: Here's one that'll be more to your liking... - 08/04/2010 11:58:27 AM 346 Views
Uh... - 08/04/2010 12:11:14 PM 503 Views
Re: Uh... - 08/04/2010 12:15:20 PM 525 Views
The Devil is always in the details - 08/04/2010 12:29:25 PM 466 Views
Re: The Devil is always in the details - 08/04/2010 12:32:34 PM 271 Views
Not really - 08/04/2010 01:07:57 PM 433 Views
Re: Not really - 08/04/2010 01:10:16 PM 341 Views
Only to a degree - 08/04/2010 01:27:22 PM 440 Views
Re: Only to a degree - 08/04/2010 01:30:12 PM 554 Views
I was into cultural and religious history - 08/04/2010 01:38:24 PM 439 Views
Re: I was into cultural and religious history - 08/04/2010 01:41:31 PM 337 Views
Ha! - 08/04/2010 01:49:23 PM 483 Views
Re: Ha! - 08/04/2010 01:51:28 PM 309 Views
I'm really sleep deprived... - 08/04/2010 02:13:20 PM 590 Views
Re: I'm really sleep deprived... - 08/04/2010 02:19:07 PM 359 Views
- 08/04/2010 02:52:59 PM 451 Views
Interesting fact of the day for you two... - 08/04/2010 02:45:15 PM 344 Views
I know - 08/04/2010 02:46:41 PM 488 Views
It was nice being a "threadkiller" of a different sort - 08/04/2010 10:08:34 PM 357 Views
Quote Pyramids of Destiny FTL *NM* - 08/04/2010 10:16:21 PM 307 Views
me being born mega rich *NM* - 07/04/2010 02:15:34 PM 317 Views
Joanie Loves Chachi. - 07/04/2010 03:42:56 PM 408 Views
worse than "afterMASH"?? *NM* - 07/04/2010 03:50:10 PM 285 Views
Worse than "Joey" ? *NM* - 07/04/2010 06:48:25 PM 296 Views
If you remember Joanie loves Chachi, you might be too old? - 08/04/2010 12:00:34 AM 330 Views
Re: I know I just did a survey, but this was too good to pass up. - 07/04/2010 09:04:02 PM 355 Views
Science getting on the ball in the 40's and making superhumans *NM* - 08/04/2010 05:31:34 AM 343 Views
The spread of peanut butter and jelly. - 08/04/2010 07:12:21 AM 482 Views
The Bread of Christianity. - 08/04/2010 07:12:51 AM 489 Views
The dead of Christianity. - 08/04/2010 07:13:34 AM 458 Views
The thread of Christianity. - 08/04/2010 07:14:15 AM 416 Views
The head of [Roman Catholic] Christianity. - 08/04/2010 07:15:21 AM 451 Views
You completely missed the "pick 1" part of the question, didn't you? *NM* - 08/04/2010 09:26:23 AM 305 Views
Well, techinically, I never said that you couldn't make multible posts, each discussing 1 thing. *NM* - 08/04/2010 05:36:37 PM 283 Views
I'm fairly sure he was just mocking someone's earlier post "just thought it would be interesting..." *NM* - 08/04/2010 08:06:56 PM 288 Views
I'm pretty sure of that too. *NM* - 08/04/2010 08:33:46 PM 292 Views
...it's pretty interesting *NM* - 08/04/2010 08:35:47 PM 346 Views
just as you thought it would be? *NM* - 08/04/2010 08:44:49 PM 286 Views
My parody. - 08/04/2010 10:41:29 PM 436 Views
Re: My parody. - 09/04/2010 07:29:19 AM 507 Views
The 1987 Rugby World Cup Final - 13/04/2010 12:23:17 PM 518 Views

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