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Only to a degree Larry Send a noteboard - 08/04/2010 01:27:22 PM
What if black pepper had been an indigenous plant in Europe and/or the Middle East? Not only does that impact a small but important part of medieval trade - the most long-distance one - but it also is of crucial importance to the European discovery journeys of the 15th, 16th and 17th centuries, and hence to the entire concept of colonialism.


Or what if potatoes or tobacco had not been imported from South America.


Tobacco was from North America/the Caribbean, or at least the specific species that are smoked by most people :P

Of course, if tobacco was not a cash crop, my family would never have been wealthy in the early 19th century (nor would they have lost most everything between the Panic of 1837 and the Civil War :P)


Yesyes. Details. I come from Norway. Everywhere that is warm enough for tobacco growing is per definition SOUTH.

And, of course, part of the scenario would have to be that it were never grown by European immigrants either.


It's okay. I always think "up there" for any region where snow lies on the ground more than a handful of days a year, if that much. :P

And then there's that scenario if Songhai had not been weakened by invasions from the Sahara...


Now you are back on political history.


I consider the social vacuum created by the collapse of a strong polity in the Sahel to be responsible in part for the atrocity known as the transatlantic slave trade. The social upheaval that was unleashed is something that certainly affects hundreds of millions directly and almost as many indirectly today.

That being said, some of my vocabulary would have been different if this hadn't taken place.


But that is the case with most of the political events mentioned in this thread. The interest lies in the social ramifications. The collapse of a major African kingdom is definitely a political event.


Of course, I like to think my old studies, grounded firmly in the late Weimar/pre-WWII Nazi Era, were not political in nature, although that contradictory regime certainly loomed large over everything I was researching about religious programs during that time :P
Illusions fall like the husk of a fruit, one after another, and the fruit is experience. - Narrator, Sylvie

Je suis méchant.
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I know I just did a survey, but this was too good to pass up. LordPerrin - 07/04/2010 12:44:15 AM 683 Views
Myself: World War I. LordPerrin - 07/04/2010 12:45:57 AM 534 Views
I don't think it's that simple. Joel - 07/04/2010 12:57:16 AM 470 Views
I see your point. LordPerrin - 07/04/2010 01:02:33 AM 458 Views
Sometimes sooner is better than later. Joel - 07/04/2010 01:10:11 AM 431 Views
True. LordPerrin - 07/04/2010 01:14:45 AM 442 Views
True, one might even say *adding* a war there would've improved things. Legolas - 07/04/2010 01:36:07 AM 434 Views
*nods* A small war is usually preferable to a big war. Joel - 07/04/2010 01:49:06 AM 417 Views
Re: True, one might even say *adding* a war there would've improved things. snoopcester - 07/04/2010 10:48:49 AM 422 Views
I had a teacher with an interesting theory related to that LadyLorraine - 07/04/2010 12:57:49 AM 318 Views
Well, at this time, it was pretty well accepted that Russia wasn't exactly a techinical power. LordPerrin - 07/04/2010 01:04:35 AM 282 Views
The Plague MalkierKnight - 07/04/2010 12:52:33 AM 410 Views
Re: The Plague LordPerrin - 07/04/2010 01:05:35 AM 316 Views
He must be talking about a different plague, but I'm not sure which one, either. *NM* Legolas - 07/04/2010 01:37:32 AM 291 Views
Maybe; there were episodic plague epidemics before and after that time. Joel - 07/04/2010 02:05:18 AM 450 Views
I am talking about one of the plagues not THE plague MalkierKnight - 07/04/2010 02:50:25 AM 419 Views
Re: I am talking about one of the plagues not THE plague lyringlas - 07/04/2010 08:45:26 PM 413 Views
I'm so glad you have the time and inclination to type up these replies. *NM* Ghavrel - 08/04/2010 07:09:22 AM 292 Views
...? lyringlas - 08/04/2010 07:51:14 PM 313 Views
Sounds like he was thanking you for saving him the effort of writing a similar reply. *NM* Legolas - 08/04/2010 09:28:55 PM 323 Views
If that is the case, then great *NM* lyringlas - 08/04/2010 09:30:51 PM 274 Views
OK, think this one's been pretty thoroughly covered in my absence. Joel - 13/04/2010 11:51:16 AM 457 Views
The spread of Christianity LadyLorraine - 07/04/2010 12:55:29 AM 483 Views
Huh. Wild to think about. *NM* LordPerrin - 07/04/2010 01:06:44 AM 305 Views
Re: The spread of Christianity lyringlas - 07/04/2010 08:47:06 PM 298 Views
Re: The spread of Christianity Camilla - 08/04/2010 09:29:17 AM 327 Views
Why would that have an impact on Judaism? Kronin al'Sulc - 08/04/2010 01:40:47 PM 423 Views
Re: Why would that have an impact on Judaism? Camilla - 08/04/2010 01:42:25 PM 277 Views
But wasn't Christianity the inspiration for a whole era of art? *NM* Kronin al'Sulc - 08/04/2010 01:41:34 PM 308 Views
Re: But wasn't Christianity the inspiration for a whole era of art? Camilla - 08/04/2010 01:44:36 PM 455 Views
precisely. LadyLorraine - 08/04/2010 05:37:26 PM 431 Views
sorry, didn't see that Lorraine already addressed this. *NM* lyringlas - 08/04/2010 07:55:00 PM 301 Views
The product of Christian inspiration was heavily Hellenistic in origin... lyringlas - 08/04/2010 07:54:12 PM 290 Views
The Partition of India, 1947... *NM* BlackAdder - 07/04/2010 12:59:32 AM 298 Views
Any paticular reason why? *NM* LordPerrin - 07/04/2010 01:34:54 AM 289 Views
Agreed. *NM* Kylia Skydancer - 07/04/2010 01:59:02 AM 372 Views
The destruction of the Great Library. Joel - 07/04/2010 01:02:59 AM 401 Views
Internet spam sucks indeed. LordPerrin - 07/04/2010 01:08:23 AM 496 Views
We'll never know; makes for fascinating speculative fiction. Joel - 07/04/2010 01:13:49 AM 405 Views
This whole topic is wild, it's something I sometimes think about. LordPerrin - 07/04/2010 01:17:50 AM 405 Views
Ya, that's what makes history so gripping. Joel - 07/04/2010 01:19:54 AM 516 Views
I don't know if that's really true... Legolas - 07/04/2010 01:39:51 AM 426 Views
It wouldn't have been as sudden or extreme. Joel - 07/04/2010 01:58:39 AM 484 Views
"Joel captures Alexandria! The Great Library is destroyed!" *NM* moondog - 07/04/2010 01:08:35 AM 175 Views
NOOOO1111 Joel - 07/04/2010 01:11:33 AM 327 Views
A shame. It's one of the better ones, too. *NM* BlackAdder - 07/04/2010 01:14:20 AM 296 Views
Not in the first two Civs. Joel - 07/04/2010 01:22:43 AM 273 Views
Civ, i love that game... MalkierKnight - 07/04/2010 03:01:13 AM 394 Views
Yeah that's one of the small annoying things BlackAdder - 07/04/2010 07:34:52 AM 264 Views
An interesting point MalkierKnight - 07/04/2010 02:57:03 AM 433 Views
That's usually my reply to this question too *NM* ironclad - 07/04/2010 11:42:55 AM 276 Views
It's crazy to think that the human knowledge base doubles every 2 years... lyringlas - 07/04/2010 08:49:28 PM 274 Views
Literacy and communication have literally made a world of difference. Joel - 13/04/2010 09:25:45 AM 404 Views
if the giant meteor hadn't destroyed the dinosaurs... moondog - 07/04/2010 01:10:42 AM 340 Views
"FOR" global warming? Now there's a phrase I never thought I'd here! LordPerrin - 07/04/2010 01:16:04 AM 278 Views
The spread of Islam Dragonsoul - 07/04/2010 01:26:11 AM 430 Views
oh aren't you clever. *NM* LadyLorraine - 07/04/2010 01:47:13 AM 284 Views
There's such a thing as being right for the wrong reasons, though I'm not sure he is. Joel - 07/04/2010 02:12:14 AM 259 Views
Wikipedia is of course not a scholarly source, but all the same... Legolas - 07/04/2010 11:57:01 AM 421 Views
Fair enough. Joel - 07/04/2010 12:51:16 PM 407 Views
I read the Bernard Lewis article referred to at Wikipedia... Legolas - 07/04/2010 01:19:03 PM 389 Views
So it's borrowed propaganda. Joel - 13/04/2010 09:30:39 AM 371 Views
Re: The spread of Islam Camilla - 08/04/2010 09:24:31 AM 469 Views
Haha, are you kidding? Dragonsoul - 08/04/2010 07:59:39 PM 243 Views
Re: Haha, are you kidding? Camilla - 08/04/2010 08:50:33 PM 241 Views
Ask yourself the question... Legolas - 08/04/2010 09:33:33 PM 247 Views
I don't see the connection. BlackAdder - 08/04/2010 08:49:46 PM 426 Views
Re: I don't see the connection. Camilla - 08/04/2010 08:51:21 PM 297 Views
I'd better not touch this one ßelals Girl - 07/04/2010 03:12:00 AM 445 Views
The spread of Judaism. Great Lord of Chaos - 07/04/2010 04:30:37 AM 404 Views
Re: The spread of Judaism. BlackAdder - 07/04/2010 07:31:02 AM 323 Views
I...do not know. Spriteling - 07/04/2010 07:18:13 AM 319 Views
A lot of times, you change one thing, and everything changes- even the things you don't think about. LordPerrin - 07/04/2010 12:26:51 PM 287 Views
Amusing that the underlying expectation seems to be more along political history lines Larry - 07/04/2010 12:56:49 PM 490 Views
Considering the way history is taught, is it surprising? *NM* Ghavrel - 08/04/2010 07:11:03 AM 266 Views
Nope, not really Larry - 08/04/2010 10:24:54 AM 414 Views
Here's one that'll be more to your liking... Legolas - 08/04/2010 10:40:53 AM 251 Views
Yes Larry - 08/04/2010 10:52:11 AM 388 Views
Re: Here's one that'll be more to your liking... Camilla - 08/04/2010 11:58:27 AM 288 Views
Uh... Larry - 08/04/2010 12:11:14 PM 437 Views
Re: Uh... Camilla - 08/04/2010 12:15:20 PM 461 Views
The Devil is always in the details Larry - 08/04/2010 12:29:25 PM 399 Views
Re: The Devil is always in the details Camilla - 08/04/2010 12:32:34 PM 237 Views
Not really Larry - 08/04/2010 01:07:57 PM 400 Views
Re: Not really Camilla - 08/04/2010 01:10:16 PM 275 Views
Only to a degree Larry - 08/04/2010 01:27:22 PM 382 Views
Re: Only to a degree Camilla - 08/04/2010 01:30:12 PM 487 Views
I was into cultural and religious history Larry - 08/04/2010 01:38:24 PM 382 Views
Re: I was into cultural and religious history Camilla - 08/04/2010 01:41:31 PM 281 Views
Ha! Larry - 08/04/2010 01:49:23 PM 429 Views
Re: Ha! Camilla - 08/04/2010 01:51:28 PM 251 Views
I'm really sleep deprived... Larry - 08/04/2010 02:13:20 PM 532 Views
Re: I'm really sleep deprived... Camilla - 08/04/2010 02:19:07 PM 299 Views
Camilla - 08/04/2010 02:52:59 PM 392 Views
Interesting fact of the day for you two... Legolas - 08/04/2010 02:45:15 PM 272 Views
I know Camilla - 08/04/2010 02:46:41 PM 431 Views
It was nice being a "threadkiller" of a different sort Larry - 08/04/2010 10:08:34 PM 303 Views
Quote Pyramids of Destiny FTL *NM* BlackAdder - 08/04/2010 10:16:21 PM 280 Views
Since, surprisingly, no one's pointed it out yet, prehistory/=history. Joel - 13/04/2010 09:52:19 AM 378 Views
me being born mega rich *NM* random thoughts - 07/04/2010 02:15:34 PM 294 Views
Joanie Loves Chachi. Tigr - 07/04/2010 03:42:56 PM 346 Views
worse than "afterMASH"?? *NM* moondog - 07/04/2010 03:50:10 PM 259 Views
Worse than "Joey" ? *NM* TaskmasterJack - 07/04/2010 06:48:25 PM 273 Views
If you remember Joanie loves Chachi, you might be too old? StarrBecca - 08/04/2010 12:00:34 AM 263 Views
Re: I know I just did a survey, but this was too good to pass up. lyringlas - 07/04/2010 09:04:02 PM 285 Views
Science getting on the ball in the 40's and making superhumans *NM* fistofpainx - 08/04/2010 05:31:34 AM 315 Views
The spread of peanut butter and jelly. Ghavrel - 08/04/2010 07:12:21 AM 417 Views
I think two spreads that would be better to eliminate would be marmite and vegemite (sp). Avendesora - 08/04/2010 05:30:26 PM 384 Views
The Bread of Christianity. Ghavrel - 08/04/2010 07:12:51 AM 460 Views
The dead of Christianity. Ghavrel - 08/04/2010 07:13:34 AM 413 Views
The thread of Christianity. Ghavrel - 08/04/2010 07:14:15 AM 360 Views
The head of [Roman Catholic] Christianity. Ghavrel - 08/04/2010 07:15:21 AM 391 Views
You completely missed the "pick 1" part of the question, didn't you? *NM* Camilla - 08/04/2010 09:26:23 AM 281 Views
Well, techinically, I never said that you couldn't make multible posts, each discussing 1 thing. *NM* LordPerrin - 08/04/2010 05:36:37 PM 260 Views
I'm fairly sure he was just mocking someone's earlier post "just thought it would be interesting..." *NM* lyringlas - 08/04/2010 08:06:56 PM 266 Views
I'm pretty sure of that too. *NM* LordPerrin - 08/04/2010 08:33:46 PM 269 Views
...it's pretty interesting *NM* lyringlas - 08/04/2010 08:35:47 PM 311 Views
just as you thought it would be? *NM* BlackAdder - 08/04/2010 08:44:49 PM 261 Views
My parody. Ghavrel - 08/04/2010 10:41:29 PM 375 Views
Re: My parody. Camilla - 09/04/2010 07:29:19 AM 437 Views
The 1987 Rugby World Cup Final Colonel Logain - 13/04/2010 12:23:17 PM 451 Views
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