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Re: I am talking about one of the plagues not THE plague lyringlas Send a noteboard - 07/04/2010 08:45:26 PM
I would make it not happen.

Rome doesn't resort to tactics which would result in their fall and the dark ages never happen. Europe doesn't go through the intellectual lull it did and religious dogma and irrationality isn't able to take over.

As a result, mankind is much further along today.


Didn't the Plauge happen several hundred years after the fall of Rome? Or am I just being an idiot and not quite getting what your saying?

In some cases, the same diseases were responsible for multiple instances of plague, and it's hard to accurately diagnose each of them hundreds or even thousands of years later. "Plague" killed Pericles and a host of others when Athens was besieged in the Peloponessian War; WHICH plague remains an open question.

I don't agree the Romes plague near the end is what killed it though; overextension and complacency during the Pax are more attractive candidates. Christian unity and the assimilation of so many "barbarian" German tribes kept Rome on life support and hid the decline for at least a century after its peak, but had the Empire been sustainable Constantinople would never have been founded.


The plague that came through Rome crippled its army, killing most of the young Roman soldiers. This eventually forced them to try and assimilate barbarian tribes and resort to the measures that kept it on life support.

Without the plague, Rome's population might have been strong enough to sustain Roman troops and a Roman identity, instead of seeding power to outsiders.

Of course, the reason Rome fell can be debated endlessly. I'm one of those that thinks it was the plague.

Either way, if Rome hadn't fallen like it did, I think we'd be better off by a lot today. But "Have Rome not fall like it did" doesn't sound like a very good reply ;)



What are you talking about? This was how Rome thrived through its glory days: expansion, and delegation of military service. The amount of *actual* Romans from Latinum, and later even from the Italian peninsula serving in the provinces armies was negligible. The main principle of Roman military strategy was: conquer place A, take men and armies from place A and make them serve in place X, while having people from place X guarding place A. Then, after colonizing place A with people from place V, then conquer place B to give land to people from A...and continue in such a fashion to appease everyone. The heart of the empire, Rome, much like America, didn't really grasp the idea of warfare and the hardships that came with it, because the people living there were as far from the borders as possible.
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I know I just did a survey, but this was too good to pass up. LordPerrin - 07/04/2010 12:44:15 AM 683 Views
Myself: World War I. LordPerrin - 07/04/2010 12:45:57 AM 533 Views
I don't think it's that simple. Joel - 07/04/2010 12:57:16 AM 469 Views
I see your point. LordPerrin - 07/04/2010 01:02:33 AM 456 Views
Sometimes sooner is better than later. Joel - 07/04/2010 01:10:11 AM 430 Views
True. LordPerrin - 07/04/2010 01:14:45 AM 442 Views
True, one might even say *adding* a war there would've improved things. Legolas - 07/04/2010 01:36:07 AM 433 Views
*nods* A small war is usually preferable to a big war. Joel - 07/04/2010 01:49:06 AM 415 Views
Re: True, one might even say *adding* a war there would've improved things. snoopcester - 07/04/2010 10:48:49 AM 420 Views
I had a teacher with an interesting theory related to that LadyLorraine - 07/04/2010 12:57:49 AM 317 Views
Well, at this time, it was pretty well accepted that Russia wasn't exactly a techinical power. LordPerrin - 07/04/2010 01:04:35 AM 280 Views
The Plague MalkierKnight - 07/04/2010 12:52:33 AM 408 Views
Re: The Plague LordPerrin - 07/04/2010 01:05:35 AM 314 Views
He must be talking about a different plague, but I'm not sure which one, either. *NM* Legolas - 07/04/2010 01:37:32 AM 291 Views
Maybe; there were episodic plague epidemics before and after that time. Joel - 07/04/2010 02:05:18 AM 449 Views
I am talking about one of the plagues not THE plague MalkierKnight - 07/04/2010 02:50:25 AM 419 Views
Re: I am talking about one of the plagues not THE plague lyringlas - 07/04/2010 08:45:26 PM 412 Views
I'm so glad you have the time and inclination to type up these replies. *NM* Ghavrel - 08/04/2010 07:09:22 AM 292 Views
...? lyringlas - 08/04/2010 07:51:14 PM 312 Views
Sounds like he was thanking you for saving him the effort of writing a similar reply. *NM* Legolas - 08/04/2010 09:28:55 PM 323 Views
If that is the case, then great *NM* lyringlas - 08/04/2010 09:30:51 PM 274 Views
OK, think this one's been pretty thoroughly covered in my absence. Joel - 13/04/2010 11:51:16 AM 455 Views
The spread of Christianity LadyLorraine - 07/04/2010 12:55:29 AM 483 Views
Huh. Wild to think about. *NM* LordPerrin - 07/04/2010 01:06:44 AM 305 Views
Re: The spread of Christianity lyringlas - 07/04/2010 08:47:06 PM 296 Views
Re: The spread of Christianity Camilla - 08/04/2010 09:29:17 AM 326 Views
Why would that have an impact on Judaism? Kronin al'Sulc - 08/04/2010 01:40:47 PM 422 Views
Re: Why would that have an impact on Judaism? Camilla - 08/04/2010 01:42:25 PM 275 Views
But wasn't Christianity the inspiration for a whole era of art? *NM* Kronin al'Sulc - 08/04/2010 01:41:34 PM 308 Views
Re: But wasn't Christianity the inspiration for a whole era of art? Camilla - 08/04/2010 01:44:36 PM 454 Views
precisely. LadyLorraine - 08/04/2010 05:37:26 PM 430 Views
sorry, didn't see that Lorraine already addressed this. *NM* lyringlas - 08/04/2010 07:55:00 PM 301 Views
The product of Christian inspiration was heavily Hellenistic in origin... lyringlas - 08/04/2010 07:54:12 PM 290 Views
The Partition of India, 1947... *NM* BlackAdder - 07/04/2010 12:59:32 AM 298 Views
Any paticular reason why? *NM* LordPerrin - 07/04/2010 01:34:54 AM 289 Views
Agreed. *NM* Kylia Skydancer - 07/04/2010 01:59:02 AM 372 Views
The destruction of the Great Library. Joel - 07/04/2010 01:02:59 AM 400 Views
Internet spam sucks indeed. LordPerrin - 07/04/2010 01:08:23 AM 495 Views
We'll never know; makes for fascinating speculative fiction. Joel - 07/04/2010 01:13:49 AM 403 Views
This whole topic is wild, it's something I sometimes think about. LordPerrin - 07/04/2010 01:17:50 AM 405 Views
Ya, that's what makes history so gripping. Joel - 07/04/2010 01:19:54 AM 515 Views
I don't know if that's really true... Legolas - 07/04/2010 01:39:51 AM 426 Views
It wouldn't have been as sudden or extreme. Joel - 07/04/2010 01:58:39 AM 482 Views
"Joel captures Alexandria! The Great Library is destroyed!" *NM* moondog - 07/04/2010 01:08:35 AM 175 Views
NOOOO1111 Joel - 07/04/2010 01:11:33 AM 325 Views
A shame. It's one of the better ones, too. *NM* BlackAdder - 07/04/2010 01:14:20 AM 296 Views
Not in the first two Civs. Joel - 07/04/2010 01:22:43 AM 271 Views
Civ, i love that game... MalkierKnight - 07/04/2010 03:01:13 AM 393 Views
Yeah that's one of the small annoying things BlackAdder - 07/04/2010 07:34:52 AM 262 Views
An interesting point MalkierKnight - 07/04/2010 02:57:03 AM 431 Views
That's usually my reply to this question too *NM* ironclad - 07/04/2010 11:42:55 AM 276 Views
It's crazy to think that the human knowledge base doubles every 2 years... lyringlas - 07/04/2010 08:49:28 PM 273 Views
Literacy and communication have literally made a world of difference. Joel - 13/04/2010 09:25:45 AM 404 Views
if the giant meteor hadn't destroyed the dinosaurs... moondog - 07/04/2010 01:10:42 AM 339 Views
"FOR" global warming? Now there's a phrase I never thought I'd here! LordPerrin - 07/04/2010 01:16:04 AM 277 Views
The spread of Islam Dragonsoul - 07/04/2010 01:26:11 AM 428 Views
oh aren't you clever. *NM* LadyLorraine - 07/04/2010 01:47:13 AM 284 Views
There's such a thing as being right for the wrong reasons, though I'm not sure he is. Joel - 07/04/2010 02:12:14 AM 259 Views
Wikipedia is of course not a scholarly source, but all the same... Legolas - 07/04/2010 11:57:01 AM 420 Views
Fair enough. Joel - 07/04/2010 12:51:16 PM 406 Views
I read the Bernard Lewis article referred to at Wikipedia... Legolas - 07/04/2010 01:19:03 PM 387 Views
So it's borrowed propaganda. Joel - 13/04/2010 09:30:39 AM 371 Views
Re: The spread of Islam Camilla - 08/04/2010 09:24:31 AM 469 Views
Haha, are you kidding? Dragonsoul - 08/04/2010 07:59:39 PM 242 Views
Re: Haha, are you kidding? Camilla - 08/04/2010 08:50:33 PM 239 Views
Ask yourself the question... Legolas - 08/04/2010 09:33:33 PM 245 Views
I don't see the connection. BlackAdder - 08/04/2010 08:49:46 PM 426 Views
Re: I don't see the connection. Camilla - 08/04/2010 08:51:21 PM 296 Views
I'd better not touch this one ßelals Girl - 07/04/2010 03:12:00 AM 445 Views
The spread of Judaism. Great Lord of Chaos - 07/04/2010 04:30:37 AM 402 Views
Re: The spread of Judaism. BlackAdder - 07/04/2010 07:31:02 AM 323 Views
I...do not know. Spriteling - 07/04/2010 07:18:13 AM 317 Views
A lot of times, you change one thing, and everything changes- even the things you don't think about. LordPerrin - 07/04/2010 12:26:51 PM 287 Views
Amusing that the underlying expectation seems to be more along political history lines Larry - 07/04/2010 12:56:49 PM 488 Views
Considering the way history is taught, is it surprising? *NM* Ghavrel - 08/04/2010 07:11:03 AM 266 Views
Nope, not really Larry - 08/04/2010 10:24:54 AM 412 Views
Here's one that'll be more to your liking... Legolas - 08/04/2010 10:40:53 AM 250 Views
Yes Larry - 08/04/2010 10:52:11 AM 387 Views
Re: Here's one that'll be more to your liking... Camilla - 08/04/2010 11:58:27 AM 288 Views
Uh... Larry - 08/04/2010 12:11:14 PM 435 Views
Re: Uh... Camilla - 08/04/2010 12:15:20 PM 459 Views
The Devil is always in the details Larry - 08/04/2010 12:29:25 PM 398 Views
Re: The Devil is always in the details Camilla - 08/04/2010 12:32:34 PM 235 Views
Not really Larry - 08/04/2010 01:07:57 PM 400 Views
Re: Not really Camilla - 08/04/2010 01:10:16 PM 274 Views
Only to a degree Larry - 08/04/2010 01:27:22 PM 380 Views
Re: Only to a degree Camilla - 08/04/2010 01:30:12 PM 487 Views
I was into cultural and religious history Larry - 08/04/2010 01:38:24 PM 381 Views
Re: I was into cultural and religious history Camilla - 08/04/2010 01:41:31 PM 279 Views
Ha! Larry - 08/04/2010 01:49:23 PM 428 Views
Re: Ha! Camilla - 08/04/2010 01:51:28 PM 249 Views
I'm really sleep deprived... Larry - 08/04/2010 02:13:20 PM 532 Views
Re: I'm really sleep deprived... Camilla - 08/04/2010 02:19:07 PM 299 Views
Camilla - 08/04/2010 02:52:59 PM 391 Views
Interesting fact of the day for you two... Legolas - 08/04/2010 02:45:15 PM 271 Views
I know Camilla - 08/04/2010 02:46:41 PM 429 Views
It was nice being a "threadkiller" of a different sort Larry - 08/04/2010 10:08:34 PM 302 Views
Quote Pyramids of Destiny FTL *NM* BlackAdder - 08/04/2010 10:16:21 PM 280 Views
Since, surprisingly, no one's pointed it out yet, prehistory/=history. Joel - 13/04/2010 09:52:19 AM 378 Views
me being born mega rich *NM* random thoughts - 07/04/2010 02:15:34 PM 294 Views
Joanie Loves Chachi. Tigr - 07/04/2010 03:42:56 PM 346 Views
worse than "afterMASH"?? *NM* moondog - 07/04/2010 03:50:10 PM 259 Views
Worse than "Joey" ? *NM* TaskmasterJack - 07/04/2010 06:48:25 PM 273 Views
If you remember Joanie loves Chachi, you might be too old? StarrBecca - 08/04/2010 12:00:34 AM 263 Views
Re: I know I just did a survey, but this was too good to pass up. lyringlas - 07/04/2010 09:04:02 PM 284 Views
Science getting on the ball in the 40's and making superhumans *NM* fistofpainx - 08/04/2010 05:31:34 AM 315 Views
The spread of peanut butter and jelly. Ghavrel - 08/04/2010 07:12:21 AM 415 Views
I think two spreads that would be better to eliminate would be marmite and vegemite (sp). Avendesora - 08/04/2010 05:30:26 PM 382 Views
The Bread of Christianity. Ghavrel - 08/04/2010 07:12:51 AM 459 Views
The dead of Christianity. Ghavrel - 08/04/2010 07:13:34 AM 412 Views
The thread of Christianity. Ghavrel - 08/04/2010 07:14:15 AM 359 Views
The head of [Roman Catholic] Christianity. Ghavrel - 08/04/2010 07:15:21 AM 391 Views
You completely missed the "pick 1" part of the question, didn't you? *NM* Camilla - 08/04/2010 09:26:23 AM 281 Views
Well, techinically, I never said that you couldn't make multible posts, each discussing 1 thing. *NM* LordPerrin - 08/04/2010 05:36:37 PM 260 Views
I'm fairly sure he was just mocking someone's earlier post "just thought it would be interesting..." *NM* lyringlas - 08/04/2010 08:06:56 PM 266 Views
I'm pretty sure of that too. *NM* LordPerrin - 08/04/2010 08:33:46 PM 269 Views
...it's pretty interesting *NM* lyringlas - 08/04/2010 08:35:47 PM 311 Views
just as you thought it would be? *NM* BlackAdder - 08/04/2010 08:44:49 PM 261 Views
My parody. Ghavrel - 08/04/2010 10:41:29 PM 373 Views
Re: My parody. Camilla - 09/04/2010 07:29:19 AM 435 Views
The 1987 Rugby World Cup Final Colonel Logain - 13/04/2010 12:23:17 PM 450 Views
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