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Re: "done right" is not always the case LadyLorraine Send a noteboard - 03/03/2010 06:31:04 AM
anything "done right" is lovely. An in-school education "done right" is perfectly sufficient for the needs of most students.

Well, we're hung up on semantics, here. I'm really thinking more of the averages. When I say "done right" I mean "not the sort of homeschool parents the news channels love to show."

After all, as you said, most student don't really have the drive to learn more than necessary. Do you think putting them in an at-home individual setting will suddenly make them want to learn geometry? or make history more interesting to a kid who only wants to dig worms out of the soil? Yes, you do have more ability to focus on what the student is good at, but you still have to teach the "boring stuff".

No, you really don't. Or at least, homeschool can minimize boring stuff in a way that public school cannot. Like I said in another thread, I never took any formal spelling or grammar instruction. I had VERY little history. You really don't have to teach "the boring stuff." Consequently, homeschool students absolutely can be more motivated than traditional students. Most that I've known are. It's not just the subject choice, either. Parents are naturally good at motivating their kids. They know them best, after all. They know that asking the kid to write a five page report won't be as effective as having them watch an animated lecture online (or whatever).


That is based on your personal experiences. I've seen home schooling go very differently. I've seen a kid throw math books around a living room because she didn't want to do homework, and her mother not do a whit about it. So my personal experiences paint a very different picture for me. On the other hand, during the summers I was "home schooled" to a degree by my mother and I found that at least interesting, even if I hated those danged math books :P (PS the child in the aforementioned throwing was not me ;) ) But the point here is, those experiences are very different. As a system, there is not consistency in quality in home schooling

Parents can motivate children by tailoring subjects, AND by tailoring their teaching style to methods that the student responds well to.


Unless the parent is an idiot or can't teach worth a hoot. Obviously, your parents were neither, but you assume that all parents can accomplish these tasks. Parents can sometimes hardly managed to motivate their children to wake up in the morning. You really think that same parent will manage to motivate a child to practice their multiplication tables? What about the parents who's children wail in grocery stores?

A teacher can't either. As for the school's resources, it's basically a library, and some teachers. The teachers rarely know much more than their subject matter requires, and develop lesson plans by reading the textbook, and coming up with an outline. Parents can do the same thing. They can pick textbooks based on solid peer reviews and awards, too, rather than just going with whatever the school can pick up cheap. Up to a point, parents already know the majority of what they're teaching their kid, too. That point is usually high school, and most home-schooling parents do "outsource" a lot of the schooling. In high school, I took some community college courses, and some courses at a local co-op group, which brought in parents from their field to teach, to supplement what I did at home. At the high school level, you do lose some of the benefit of having a parent teach you, but you still have all the flexibility to tailor towards what interests you, and to learn in the manner you see fit, whether that be community college classes, job shadowing, whatever.


A single teacher cannot answer every child's question, no. But there is always more than one teacher just a few foot steps away. The library is only a few more steps than that. My point is that all these resources are within easy access to a student willing to access them, or a teacher willing to do a bit extra for a student. And I don't know how much you know about teaching (honestly, I'm not trying to egg at you), but I can assure you that plenty of teachers do more than formulate an outline from a textbook for their curriculum. Trust me, I've seen more lesson plan books than anyone outside a college of education should. I've had more of that since entering college than anywhere else.

A quality home school education require a parent to give a quality education. This is far from impossible, but there are enough parents out there that are total idiots both with knowledge and their children that I would quake in fear if home schooling was made the predominant system of education over in-school teaching.
Still Empress of the Poofy Purple Pillow Pile Palace!!
Continued Love of my Aussie <3
This message last edited by LadyLorraine on 03/03/2010 at 06:45:11 AM
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Homeschooling: German Family Gets Political Asylum in U.S. Cannoli - 02/03/2010 10:30:01 PM 1404 Views
Looks like a win-win situation to me. Legolas - 02/03/2010 11:01:22 PM 657 Views
Exactly ironclad - 03/03/2010 08:54:10 AM 620 Views
yah...but...but.... LadyLorraine - 03/03/2010 01:13:31 PM 514 Views
Germany does have a history of getting rid of people it doesn't like *NM* random thoughts - 03/03/2010 02:08:37 PM 393 Views
Yawn. At least beckstcw was joking when he invoked Godwin's law below. I hope. *NM* Legolas - 03/03/2010 02:10:18 PM 360 Views
That is a load of crap random thoughts - 03/03/2010 02:53:02 PM 434 Views
uhm, how would Germany be offending the US? LadyLorraine - 03/03/2010 02:56:52 PM 393 Views
I meant in general not in this specfic case random thoughts - 03/03/2010 02:59:01 PM 344 Views
ahh mk *NM* LadyLorraine - 03/03/2010 03:09:39 PM 378 Views
Um. Legolas - 03/03/2010 02:57:53 PM 282 Views
But our religious beliefs and belief in allowing religious freedom is fair game? random thoughts - 03/03/2010 03:09:48 PM 277 Views
Yes? Legolas - 03/03/2010 03:40:30 PM 264 Views
If you made fun of the Native Americans I would be offended random thoughts - 03/03/2010 03:46:05 PM 504 Views
It's actually quite the opposite. Legolas - 03/03/2010 03:57:19 PM 485 Views
and I would say they trying to fix intolerance with more intolerance random thoughts - 03/03/2010 04:13:49 PM 271 Views
That was probably the stupidest thing I ever saw you write ironclad - 03/03/2010 03:28:39 PM 432 Views
You were the one who said good riddance random thoughts - 03/03/2010 03:43:24 PM 297 Views
It's the usual story of American ideology and European pragmatism. Legolas - 03/03/2010 03:52:51 PM 458 Views
exactly. LadyLorraine - 03/03/2010 03:56:11 PM 397 Views
Yes, because I won't miss them much. ironclad - 03/03/2010 03:55:29 PM 482 Views
well said Aisha - 03/03/2010 06:34:18 PM 474 Views
This is getting a bit off the discussion. Please keep it civil, everyone. *NM* Avendesora - 03/03/2010 06:55:11 PM 375 Views
I think it's outrageous they'd fine people for that Isaac - 02/03/2010 11:07:57 PM 661 Views
Re: Homeschooling: German Family Gets Political Asylum in U.S. everynametaken - 03/03/2010 01:09:23 AM 789 Views
The socialization thing is mostly garbage Isaac - 03/03/2010 02:32:19 AM 663 Views
Yep, exactly. Aemon - 03/03/2010 02:41:14 AM 457 Views
Re: Yep, exactly. Isaac - 03/03/2010 03:12:48 AM 434 Views
Re: Yep, exactly. everynametaken - 03/03/2010 03:34:33 AM 680 Views
Re: Yep, exactly. Isaac - 03/03/2010 04:34:30 AM 672 Views
*shrugs* I said it was anecdotal. I have no hard figures, only experiences. everynametaken - 03/03/2010 03:28:29 AM 457 Views
The operative word IS mostly LadyLorraine - 03/03/2010 04:33:20 AM 631 Views
'Mostly' is all that matters Isaac - 03/03/2010 05:46:01 AM 661 Views
Uhm, socialization is incredibly important. LadyLorraine - 03/03/2010 06:03:30 AM 635 Views
Yes, but you don't need to be taught to do it Isaac - 03/03/2010 06:47:06 AM 596 Views
cats aren't pack or herd animals LadyLorraine - 03/03/2010 06:53:02 AM 579 Views
Something of an inside joke, sorry Isaac - 03/03/2010 07:41:50 AM 622 Views
us closely associated with schools are sensitive on the issue too LadyLorraine - 03/03/2010 01:05:27 PM 439 Views
Re: us closely associated with schools are sensitive on the issue too Isaac - 03/03/2010 10:19:21 PM 499 Views
I would agree that households with two working parnets shouldn't home school *NM* random thoughts - 03/03/2010 03:22:51 PM 353 Views
I'm a homeschooling parent. Beqi - 03/03/2010 07:09:03 PM 606 Views
LOL, we seem well represented on this site Isaac - 03/03/2010 10:02:16 PM 693 Views
to jump on the "I was homeschooled and I have social skills" bandwagon... Mat Maniac - 03/03/2010 06:27:05 AM 968 Views
I think you may be missing some things random thoughts - 03/03/2010 02:48:27 PM 711 Views
Re: I think you may be missing some things everynametaken - 05/03/2010 12:16:37 AM 793 Views
I was homeschooled through grade 12, and my mom has done pro bono legal work for HSLDA. Aemon - 03/03/2010 02:20:38 AM 585 Views
I agree that it can be a very good option for some families LadyLorraine - 03/03/2010 04:42:21 AM 723 Views
Re: I agree that it can be a very good option for some families Aemon - 03/03/2010 05:16:17 AM 552 Views
It depends on the public school. LadyLorraine - 03/03/2010 05:23:09 AM 595 Views
Re: It depends on the public school. Aemon - 03/03/2010 05:45:07 AM 597 Views
"done right" is not always the case LadyLorraine - 03/03/2010 05:58:26 AM 419 Views
Re: "done right" is not always the case Aemon - 03/03/2010 06:14:43 AM 734 Views
Re: "done right" is not always the case LadyLorraine - 03/03/2010 06:31:04 AM 646 Views
Well let's talk stats then. Aemon - 03/03/2010 06:55:14 AM 608 Views
please do not get me started on statistis. LadyLorraine - 03/03/2010 07:11:19 AM 530 Views
Re: please do not get me started on statistis. Aemon - 03/03/2010 07:28:41 AM 577 Views
you missed my point. LadyLorraine - 03/03/2010 01:10:26 PM 597 Views
You seem to be ignoring the matter of qualified teachers. Legolas - 03/03/2010 01:29:01 PM 561 Views
Your comments on public school educations have rather limited relevance to other countries, though. Legolas - 03/03/2010 09:53:30 AM 662 Views
+ ^ *NM* LadyLorraine - 03/03/2010 01:11:04 PM 347 Views
While I support homeschooling, this is ridiculous. LadyLorraine - 03/03/2010 04:48:40 AM 719 Views
Meh. Aemon - 03/03/2010 05:20:50 AM 643 Views
one year in a public school LadyLorraine - 03/03/2010 05:32:13 AM 663 Views
Re: one year in a public school Aemon - 03/03/2010 05:58:48 AM 462 Views
No, I think i will nitpick. LadyLorraine - 03/03/2010 06:11:44 AM 580 Views
This is getting off track and wasting time. Aemon - 03/03/2010 06:26:36 AM 629 Views
I'm not even certain it's 100% legal. LadyLorraine - 03/03/2010 06:34:44 AM 417 Views
Yes, but we can't argue abuse of law. Aemon - 03/03/2010 06:51:23 AM 534 Views
I only used Mexicans because I'm from Arizona LadyLorraine - 03/03/2010 07:04:29 AM 630 Views
I think I have the gist of it, Aemon - 03/03/2010 07:17:40 AM 554 Views
we haven't heard anything about their beliefs for me to think they're stupid. LadyLorraine - 03/03/2010 02:54:25 PM 637 Views
According to the Süddeutsche Zeitung... Legolas - 03/03/2010 03:38:13 PM 564 Views
they don't have private christian schools in germany? LadyLorraine - 03/03/2010 03:54:07 PM 513 Views
Not many, I dare say, but a few probably. *NM* Legolas - 03/03/2010 03:59:11 PM 368 Views
Say what? Legolas - 03/03/2010 09:38:40 AM 509 Views
Being able raise your kids by your beliefs is a frivolous matter? random thoughts - 03/03/2010 03:21:23 PM 436 Views
Germany is not saying "you can't raise your kids by your beliefs" LadyLorraine - 03/03/2010 03:31:01 PM 560 Views
It's not a recent law, and supposedly other German families have moved to France and the UK. Legolas - 03/03/2010 03:45:56 PM 659 Views
figured that. LadyLorraine - 03/03/2010 03:58:57 PM 566 Views
I think that would fly in very face of political assylum random thoughts - 03/03/2010 04:12:48 PM 593 Views
Yes, but they did not need political asylum. LadyLorraine - 03/03/2010 04:28:16 PM 627 Views
how is that different then other political refuges we allow in? random thoughts - 03/03/2010 04:55:14 PM 518 Views
I believe Legolas linked an article LadyLorraine - 03/03/2010 04:57:09 PM 502 Views
I never saw the link random thoughts - 03/03/2010 05:08:21 PM 417 Views
I'm not sure if they offered "formal" assurances or some such LadyLorraine - 03/03/2010 05:21:54 PM 341 Views
that was a mayor, I doubt he would have the final word on the issue random thoughts - 03/03/2010 05:46:22 PM 403 Views
You don't have a law about removing children from parental custody? At all? Legolas - 03/03/2010 09:43:15 PM 556 Views
They can take your kids from for not sending them to school but not for home schooling them random thoughts - 03/03/2010 10:35:48 PM 558 Views
Compared to not being able to feed your kids, yes, it is. Legolas - 03/03/2010 03:42:58 PM 439 Views
yes but we don't grant political assylum for being hungry random thoughts - 03/03/2010 04:34:23 PM 522 Views
no we don't. LadyLorraine - 03/03/2010 04:50:31 PM 398 Views
Do you have a better system? random thoughts - 03/03/2010 05:05:42 PM 686 Views
Immigration processes could certainly use some reform LadyLorraine - 03/03/2010 05:32:22 PM 489 Views
The system sucks, big government typically does not function well random thoughts - 03/03/2010 05:48:25 PM 421 Views
we probably would all be better off... LadyLorraine - 03/03/2010 07:27:28 PM 535 Views
good because Texas is taken random thoughts - 03/03/2010 07:47:46 PM 548 Views
No, true, that was about the illegal immigrants. Legolas - 03/03/2010 09:53:18 PM 641 Views
Oh, and did you miss the part where the federal government is appealing the decision? *NM* Legolas - 03/03/2010 09:40:42 AM 357 Views
Absolutely. Legolas - 03/03/2010 09:32:41 AM 619 Views
I would consider the threat of losing my children because of my beliefs to be a real threat *NM* random thoughts - 03/03/2010 02:54:08 PM 397 Views
Doesn't matter why, but all parents should have the right to homeschool..... trzaska2000 - 03/03/2010 04:48:57 AM 455 Views
there are far worse faults for a country to have *NM* LadyLorraine - 03/03/2010 05:14:11 AM 347 Views
That whole thing is pretty silly snoopcester - 03/03/2010 12:18:45 PM 690 Views
Re: socialising. Rebekah - 03/03/2010 06:13:49 PM 666 Views
And then there are secular people like myself, who The Shrike - 03/03/2010 06:44:13 PM 606 Views
I think I'd do that too, if I had the patience. Rebekah - 03/03/2010 06:45:20 PM 471 Views
*agree* Avendesora - 03/03/2010 07:41:56 PM 656 Views
That is the catagory I'm in. Beqi - 03/03/2010 07:46:12 PM 512 Views
Re: probably more likely snoopcester - 04/03/2010 12:19:37 AM 664 Views
I am opposed to homeschooling but believe it should be a legal option. Tom - 03/03/2010 02:32:34 PM 607 Views
I think you make a good point here random thoughts - 03/03/2010 05:22:59 PM 643 Views
but...but...parents can't educate their children outside of school!! LadyLorraine - 03/03/2010 05:40:30 PM 579 Views
I don't agree with them I just support their right to be wrong random thoughts - 03/03/2010 06:04:11 PM 648 Views
The statistics are flawed, as I've noted above LadyLorraine - 03/03/2010 07:07:11 PM 496 Views
they tend to beat private schools as well would should flatten out the demographics random thoughts - 03/03/2010 07:53:38 PM 577 Views
Your views on this are not fact-driven Isaac - 03/03/2010 09:13:07 PM 658 Views
No, what you're saying is that my answer isn't driven by STATISTICS. Tom - 03/03/2010 10:36:50 PM 588 Views
Granted, but there is no obvious source for bias Isaac - 03/03/2010 10:57:19 PM 512 Views
Again, I'm not saying it applies to everyone Tom - 03/03/2010 11:51:17 PM 419 Views
Re: Again, I'm not saying it applies to everyone Isaac - 04/03/2010 12:16:29 AM 641 Views
You mean aside from the fact that you are already arguing about it? snoopcester - 04/03/2010 12:14:02 AM 421 Views
Yes, I mentioned this in my reply to Tom, see below... Isaac - 04/03/2010 12:19:42 AM 560 Views
Fair enough snoopcester - 04/03/2010 12:21:41 AM 486 Views
Re: Fair enough Isaac - 04/03/2010 12:37:06 AM 884 Views
Re: Fair enough snoopcester - 04/03/2010 09:39:38 AM 597 Views
And the wikipedia article you pointed me to had a different study that contradicts your point. Tom - 03/03/2010 10:42:54 PM 506 Views
Religious or *moral* instruction Isaac - 03/03/2010 10:49:48 PM 612 Views
I haven't really "met" you the way I meant it in that reply Tom - 03/03/2010 11:48:11 PM 413 Views
Granted but for our purposes I think people on this site would qualify Isaac - 04/03/2010 12:05:03 AM 559 Views
Umm Massachusetts did have slavery in 1717 random thoughts - 03/03/2010 02:55:25 PM 513 Views
His argument on the law of Germany is a bad one generally, though, not just for that reason. Tom - 03/03/2010 03:31:00 PM 431 Views
Wow....so this got the board going. A question for everyone... Jeordam - 03/03/2010 06:02:57 PM 704 Views
I think it is incumbent on the state to show that kids are being in some way harmed random thoughts - 03/03/2010 06:07:13 PM 613 Views
Interesting SilverWarder - 03/03/2010 06:25:43 PM 722 Views
I never said there should be no limits on what parents should be able to do random thoughts - 03/03/2010 06:38:53 PM 669 Views
What you said was: SilverWarder - 03/03/2010 06:51:26 PM 661 Views
I think it's safe to say teaching your kids to be little sociopaths qualifies as harm. Joel - 03/03/2010 09:17:48 PM 443 Views
I think so too SilverWarder - 03/03/2010 10:46:41 PM 669 Views
I think the problem there was it was seen as inherently political, that, and showing harm. Joel - 03/03/2010 11:44:21 PM 499 Views
Yes they do. Provided... LadyLorraine - 03/03/2010 07:04:46 PM 546 Views
One of the reasons... Avendesora - 03/03/2010 07:40:54 PM 620 Views
that is fair enough LadyLorraine - 03/03/2010 07:51:31 PM 519 Views
There is a reason why education until 18 (or 16, depending) is not merely a right, but a duty. Legolas - 03/03/2010 10:00:53 PM 613 Views
Hmmph. Inappropriate action on the part of the judge who allowed them to stay. SilverWarder - 03/03/2010 06:22:08 PM 561 Views
I agree completely with this. *NM* The Shrike - 03/03/2010 06:42:01 PM 371 Views
agree. *NM* Avendesora - 03/03/2010 06:49:01 PM 238 Views
You just skip the part where they have to show they are being persecuted random thoughts - 03/03/2010 06:54:20 PM 674 Views
"Persecution" can be a matter of opinion, though. SilverWarder - 03/03/2010 07:04:46 PM 649 Views
officers will track down kids ditching school here. LadyLorraine - 03/03/2010 07:17:57 PM 715 Views
I'm not sure what they do in Canada SilverWarder - 03/03/2010 10:49:00 PM 563 Views
Agrees Roland00 - 03/03/2010 06:54:59 PM 537 Views
As I said, most people would prefer to have their safety threatened to losing their kids. *NM* Cannoli - 06/03/2010 10:14:52 PM 420 Views
New Cosmic Powers of the admins Roland00 - 03/03/2010 06:52:57 PM 447 Views
It is the Power of the Ben™ *NM* Avendesora - 03/03/2010 08:48:11 PM 365 Views
*walks in, looks around* ßelals Girl - 03/03/2010 07:52:09 PM 650 Views
Re: *walks in, looks around* Macharius - 03/03/2010 09:25:46 PM 415 Views
What, no defending Germany today? *NM* Legolas - 03/03/2010 10:03:01 PM 370 Views
Even I need a day off *NM* ßelals Girl - 04/03/2010 01:02:17 AM 357 Views
Re: *walks in, looks around* ironclad - 03/03/2010 10:33:24 PM 462 Views
Interesting SilverWarder - 03/03/2010 11:02:27 PM 636 Views
Am I recalling correctly that you know some German? Legolas - 03/03/2010 11:07:00 PM 579 Views
Sorry, nope. SilverWarder - 04/03/2010 09:14:49 PM 424 Views
Oh. Ah well. Legolas - 04/03/2010 09:23:11 PM 569 Views
One thing all of us homeschooled kids are missing is... beckstcw - 04/03/2010 01:53:22 AM 515 Views
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