Homeschooling: German Family Gets Political Asylum in U.S.
Cannoli Send a noteboard - 02/03/2010 10:30:01 PM
Homeschooling: German Family Gets Political Asylum in U.S.
By TRISTANA MOORE
The Romeikes are not your typical asylum seekers. They did not come to the U.S. to flee war or despotism in their native land. No, these music teachers left Germany because they didn't like what their children were learning in public school - and because homeschooling is illegal there.
"It's our fundamental right to decide how we want to teach our children," says Uwe Romeike, an Evangelical Christian and a concert pianist who sold his treasured Steinway to help pay for the move.
Romeike decided to uproot his family in 2008 after he and his wife had accrued about $10,000 in fines for homeschooling their three oldest children and police had turned up at their doorstep and escorted them to school. "My kids were crying, but nobody seemed to care," Romeike says of the incident.
So why did he seek asylum in the U.S. rather than relocate to nearby Austria or another European country that allows homeschooling? Romeike's wife Hannelore tells TIME the family was contacted by the Virginia-based Home School Legal Defense Association (HSLDA), which suggested they go to the U.S. and settle in Morristown, Tenn. The nonprofit organization, which defends the rights of the U.S. homeschooling community - with its estimated 2 million children, or about 4% of the total school-age population - is expanding its overseas outreach. And on Jan. 26, the HSLDA helped the Romeikes become the first people granted asylum in the U.S. because they were persecuted for homeschooling.
The ruling is tricky politically for Washington and its allies in Europe, where several countries - including Spain and the Netherlands - allow homeschooling only under exceptional circumstances, such as when a child is extremely ill. That helps explain why in late February, U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement formally appealed the Romeike ruling, which was issued by an immigration judge in Memphis, Tenn. His unprecedented decision has raised concerns that the already heavily backlogged immigration courts will be flooded with asylum petitions from homeschoolers in countries typically regarded as having nonrepressive governments.
"It's very unusual for people from Western countries to be granted asylum in the U.S.," says David Piver, an immigration attorney with offices in a Philadelphia suburb and Flagstaff, Ariz. In 2008, the most recent year for which data are available, only five Germans received asylum in the U.S. (The Justice Department declined to comment on specific cases.) Piver, who is not involved in the Romeike case, predicted the U.S. government would appeal the decision "so as not to offend a close ally."
Successful asylum petitions typically involve applicants whose situations are more dire, such as women who were forced to undergo abortions or genital mutilation and men whose lives were threatened because they are homosexuals or political dissidents. But Piver believes the Memphis judge was right to grant the Romeikes asylum, since the law covers social groups with "a well-founded fear of persecution" in their home country.
In Germany, mandatory school attendance dates back to 1717, when it was introduced in Prussia, and the policy has traditionally been viewed as a social good. "This law protects children," says Josef Kraus, president of the German Teachers' Association. The European Court of Human Rights agrees with him. In 2006, the court threw out a homeschooling family's case when it deemed Germany's compulsory-schooling law as compatible with the European Convention on Human Rights, an international treaty drafted in 1950. Given this backdrop, it's little wonder the Romeikes came up against a wall of opposition when they tried to talk to their school principal about the merits of homeschooling.
One of the Romeikes' concerns was about their kids getting bullied. But their main objection involved what was being taught in the classroom. "The curriculum goes against our Christian values," Uwe says. "German schools use textbooks that force inappropriate subject matter onto young children and tell stories with characters that promote profanity and disrespect."
While there are no official figures, it's estimated that up to 1,000 German families are homeschooling their children. Elisabeth Kuhnle, a spokeswoman for a German advocacy group called the Network for the Freedom of Education, says a recent homeschooling meeting attracted about 50 families in the state of Baden-Württemberg, where the Romeikes used to live. She also reckons many German homeschooling families have relocated to countries like France and Britain, where homeschooling is allowed.
In 2007, Germany's Federal Supreme Court issued a ruling - which did not specifically involve the Romeikes - that parents could lose custody of their children if they continued to homeschool them. "We were under constant pressure, and we were scared the German authorities would take our children away," Romeike says. "So we decided to leave and go to the U.S."
German officials, for their part, note that the Romeikes had other options. "If parents don't want to send their children to a public school, they can send them to alternative private schools," says Thomas Hilsenbeck, a spokesman for the Baden-Württemberg education ministry. Homeschooling advocates counter that there are few private schools in Germany, and they tend to be expensive. But beyond that, many religious parents have problems with sex education and other curricular requirements. "Whether it's a state school or a private school, there's still a curriculum that is forced onto children," says Kuhnle.
And then there are the social aspects of going to school. Homeschooling parents tend to want to shield their children from negative influences. But this quest often runs counter to the idea that schools represent society and help promote tolerance. "No parental couple can offer a breadth of education [that can] replace experienced teachers," says Kraus, of the German Teachers' Association. "Kids also lose contact with their peers."
Concerns that homeschooling could lead to insularity - or worse, as Kraus puts it, "could help foster the development of a sect" - are shaping policy debates in European countries. In Britain, for example, Parliament is considering legislation that would create a new monitoring system to ensure that homeschooled kids get a suitable education.
In Sweden, where parents have to apply for permission to teach their children at home, the government is planning to impose even tougher restrictions on homeschoolers. And in Spain, parents are not allowed to educate their children at home. Period. If a child has special needs that prevent him from attending school, a teacher will be sent to his home.
By contrast, homeschooling is legal in all 50 U.S. states, some of which don't require families to notify authorities of their intent to teach their children at home. Tennessee is among the states that require some form of notice as well as periodic assessment tests.
When Uwe and Hannelore heard that the judge had ruled in their favor, they celebrated by taking their five children - who range in age from 4 to 12 - to Baskin-Robbins for ice cream. But the next day, they were back to their regular schedule. Lessons start at 9 a.m. and end at around 4 p.m. The school-age kids are learning all the usual subjects - math, science, etc. - with the help of textbooks and other teaching materials, in compliance with state law. The family has also joined a local group that organizes activities and field trips once a week for homeschooled children.
Meanwhile, the HSLDA says it is working to defend a homeschooling family in Sweden and is investigating cases in Brazil, where homeschooling is banned - all good fodder for a comparative-government class, whether it's taught in school or at home.
A very troubling article, as much for the disingenuous posture of neutrality as for the facts exposed. The article, however it may try to hold up the façade of journalistic objectivity, presents the Romeikes’ case solely with their own quotes and offers no supporting evidence, while presenting the other side in a manner either intended to make the Romeikes seem unreasonable or out of touch, and in some cases, inaccurately. For instance, they present the tradition of mandatory school attendance in Germany by citing a law in a different country! In 1717, Prussia was not a part of the Holy Roman Empire (or First Reich, to give it some relative historical perspective), while the Romeikes' home state was. Citing a Prussian law of 1717 regarding a Baden-Wurttemberg is like claiming that someone from Massachusetts has no business being opposed to slavery because in 1717, it was legal in Georgia. Without the time or inclination to delve into outmoded legal precedents of a foreign country to determine the truth of the implication that the Romeikes are bucking a nearly 300-year-old tradition, suffice it to say, various kingdoms, republics and reichs, many of them among the most infamous religious persecutors of their times, have ruled Prussia and/or Baden-Wurttemberg since then, and the citation of that old law, is either deceitful or woefully ignorant reporting.
As for other examples of skewed perspective, the article asserts flatly that compulsory schooling is seen as a social good, rather that citing it as a contention of one side, and in support of this universally accepted truth, they cite a member of a Teacher’s Association, as if they were some sort of non-profit, neutral party, rather than a group with a specific interest in compulsory schooling! On what other topic could an article credibly cite a member of a business as evidence that people should be made to use its’ services, rather than do things on their own? No one would, for example, quote a chef as saying people should eat out rather than go to restaurants, or a car salesman’s claims that mass transportation is a greatly inferior mode of travel.
What Europeans chose to do about their education is not my business, or that of the USA, but the parents are correct about their fundamental rights, and this certainly counts as persecution, if people are threatening to take their children or do what their parents consider harm to them. The article actually seems to think that physical harm is a legitimate reason, but threats to lose your children are not! I have neither children, nor much in the way of paternal instincts, but as I understand it, most parents would prefer genital mutilation to the loss of their children. These people are being punished for their beliefs and private practices, and they are indirectly threatened with the break-up of their families - the very factor that supposedly drove Abraham Lincoln into the anit-slavery camp!
Meanwhile, our Federal immigration officials, unable to stem the swarm of MS-13 operatives expanding their territory, are settling for picking on well-educated, successful people who come here openly and lawfully when their laws become intolerable. Tennessee said they could stay, so why the hell is ICE trying to swoop in and save Tennessee from its own generosity? A state that has more monuments to the founder of the KKK than to the three native sons it elected to the presidency combined is not going to be turned into New Germany by a music teacher & his brood. And hey! We have the Von Trapps as an historical precedent! I thought the Justice Department was all in favor of keeping kids with their parents, to the point of storming a Miami home on Easter in tactical rig with automatic weapons pointed at unarmed civilians in their own residences?
More sinister is the idea that the country would oppose their asylum "so as not to offend a close ally." Yes, the last country we declared war against, which WE have deployed troops to defend, and has not exactly been famous for their reciprocity towards us is “a close ally.” What is the point of the USA if we are going to throw over a bedrock principle to maintain friendship with a country that would turn on us in order to maintain their intrusion into the private lives of their citizens’ families? And what is Germany going to do to us anyway? Cozy up to Russia? Good luck with that. There are many reasons to reject immigrants who come here. “It would make their former government happy,” is NEVER an acceptable one.
As far as the homeschooling goes, my mother is an elementary school teacher who loathes having homeschooled kids in her class (and never did it for us), but she concedes that when done properly, it is just fine. The regular schedule attributed to the Romeikes is the main factor she always cites as necessary for effective homeschooling, and aren’t the teacher’s unions always making a big deal about small class size and low ratio of students to teachers being critical? The absurd notion cited by the German teachers’ mouthpiece that a mass-consumption curriculum administered by government-employed time servers can provide a superior “breadth of education” than dedicated parents who are willing to change countries, continents and languages to educate their children should have been laughed at, rather than written up in a reputable national magazine.
By TRISTANA MOORE
The Romeikes are not your typical asylum seekers. They did not come to the U.S. to flee war or despotism in their native land. No, these music teachers left Germany because they didn't like what their children were learning in public school - and because homeschooling is illegal there.
"It's our fundamental right to decide how we want to teach our children," says Uwe Romeike, an Evangelical Christian and a concert pianist who sold his treasured Steinway to help pay for the move.
Romeike decided to uproot his family in 2008 after he and his wife had accrued about $10,000 in fines for homeschooling their three oldest children and police had turned up at their doorstep and escorted them to school. "My kids were crying, but nobody seemed to care," Romeike says of the incident.
So why did he seek asylum in the U.S. rather than relocate to nearby Austria or another European country that allows homeschooling? Romeike's wife Hannelore tells TIME the family was contacted by the Virginia-based Home School Legal Defense Association (HSLDA), which suggested they go to the U.S. and settle in Morristown, Tenn. The nonprofit organization, which defends the rights of the U.S. homeschooling community - with its estimated 2 million children, or about 4% of the total school-age population - is expanding its overseas outreach. And on Jan. 26, the HSLDA helped the Romeikes become the first people granted asylum in the U.S. because they were persecuted for homeschooling.
The ruling is tricky politically for Washington and its allies in Europe, where several countries - including Spain and the Netherlands - allow homeschooling only under exceptional circumstances, such as when a child is extremely ill. That helps explain why in late February, U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement formally appealed the Romeike ruling, which was issued by an immigration judge in Memphis, Tenn. His unprecedented decision has raised concerns that the already heavily backlogged immigration courts will be flooded with asylum petitions from homeschoolers in countries typically regarded as having nonrepressive governments.
"It's very unusual for people from Western countries to be granted asylum in the U.S.," says David Piver, an immigration attorney with offices in a Philadelphia suburb and Flagstaff, Ariz. In 2008, the most recent year for which data are available, only five Germans received asylum in the U.S. (The Justice Department declined to comment on specific cases.) Piver, who is not involved in the Romeike case, predicted the U.S. government would appeal the decision "so as not to offend a close ally."
Successful asylum petitions typically involve applicants whose situations are more dire, such as women who were forced to undergo abortions or genital mutilation and men whose lives were threatened because they are homosexuals or political dissidents. But Piver believes the Memphis judge was right to grant the Romeikes asylum, since the law covers social groups with "a well-founded fear of persecution" in their home country.
In Germany, mandatory school attendance dates back to 1717, when it was introduced in Prussia, and the policy has traditionally been viewed as a social good. "This law protects children," says Josef Kraus, president of the German Teachers' Association. The European Court of Human Rights agrees with him. In 2006, the court threw out a homeschooling family's case when it deemed Germany's compulsory-schooling law as compatible with the European Convention on Human Rights, an international treaty drafted in 1950. Given this backdrop, it's little wonder the Romeikes came up against a wall of opposition when they tried to talk to their school principal about the merits of homeschooling.
One of the Romeikes' concerns was about their kids getting bullied. But their main objection involved what was being taught in the classroom. "The curriculum goes against our Christian values," Uwe says. "German schools use textbooks that force inappropriate subject matter onto young children and tell stories with characters that promote profanity and disrespect."
While there are no official figures, it's estimated that up to 1,000 German families are homeschooling their children. Elisabeth Kuhnle, a spokeswoman for a German advocacy group called the Network for the Freedom of Education, says a recent homeschooling meeting attracted about 50 families in the state of Baden-Württemberg, where the Romeikes used to live. She also reckons many German homeschooling families have relocated to countries like France and Britain, where homeschooling is allowed.
In 2007, Germany's Federal Supreme Court issued a ruling - which did not specifically involve the Romeikes - that parents could lose custody of their children if they continued to homeschool them. "We were under constant pressure, and we were scared the German authorities would take our children away," Romeike says. "So we decided to leave and go to the U.S."
German officials, for their part, note that the Romeikes had other options. "If parents don't want to send their children to a public school, they can send them to alternative private schools," says Thomas Hilsenbeck, a spokesman for the Baden-Württemberg education ministry. Homeschooling advocates counter that there are few private schools in Germany, and they tend to be expensive. But beyond that, many religious parents have problems with sex education and other curricular requirements. "Whether it's a state school or a private school, there's still a curriculum that is forced onto children," says Kuhnle.
And then there are the social aspects of going to school. Homeschooling parents tend to want to shield their children from negative influences. But this quest often runs counter to the idea that schools represent society and help promote tolerance. "No parental couple can offer a breadth of education [that can] replace experienced teachers," says Kraus, of the German Teachers' Association. "Kids also lose contact with their peers."
Concerns that homeschooling could lead to insularity - or worse, as Kraus puts it, "could help foster the development of a sect" - are shaping policy debates in European countries. In Britain, for example, Parliament is considering legislation that would create a new monitoring system to ensure that homeschooled kids get a suitable education.
In Sweden, where parents have to apply for permission to teach their children at home, the government is planning to impose even tougher restrictions on homeschoolers. And in Spain, parents are not allowed to educate their children at home. Period. If a child has special needs that prevent him from attending school, a teacher will be sent to his home.
By contrast, homeschooling is legal in all 50 U.S. states, some of which don't require families to notify authorities of their intent to teach their children at home. Tennessee is among the states that require some form of notice as well as periodic assessment tests.
When Uwe and Hannelore heard that the judge had ruled in their favor, they celebrated by taking their five children - who range in age from 4 to 12 - to Baskin-Robbins for ice cream. But the next day, they were back to their regular schedule. Lessons start at 9 a.m. and end at around 4 p.m. The school-age kids are learning all the usual subjects - math, science, etc. - with the help of textbooks and other teaching materials, in compliance with state law. The family has also joined a local group that organizes activities and field trips once a week for homeschooled children.
Meanwhile, the HSLDA says it is working to defend a homeschooling family in Sweden and is investigating cases in Brazil, where homeschooling is banned - all good fodder for a comparative-government class, whether it's taught in school or at home.
A very troubling article, as much for the disingenuous posture of neutrality as for the facts exposed. The article, however it may try to hold up the façade of journalistic objectivity, presents the Romeikes’ case solely with their own quotes and offers no supporting evidence, while presenting the other side in a manner either intended to make the Romeikes seem unreasonable or out of touch, and in some cases, inaccurately. For instance, they present the tradition of mandatory school attendance in Germany by citing a law in a different country! In 1717, Prussia was not a part of the Holy Roman Empire (or First Reich, to give it some relative historical perspective), while the Romeikes' home state was. Citing a Prussian law of 1717 regarding a Baden-Wurttemberg is like claiming that someone from Massachusetts has no business being opposed to slavery because in 1717, it was legal in Georgia. Without the time or inclination to delve into outmoded legal precedents of a foreign country to determine the truth of the implication that the Romeikes are bucking a nearly 300-year-old tradition, suffice it to say, various kingdoms, republics and reichs, many of them among the most infamous religious persecutors of their times, have ruled Prussia and/or Baden-Wurttemberg since then, and the citation of that old law, is either deceitful or woefully ignorant reporting.
As for other examples of skewed perspective, the article asserts flatly that compulsory schooling is seen as a social good, rather that citing it as a contention of one side, and in support of this universally accepted truth, they cite a member of a Teacher’s Association, as if they were some sort of non-profit, neutral party, rather than a group with a specific interest in compulsory schooling! On what other topic could an article credibly cite a member of a business as evidence that people should be made to use its’ services, rather than do things on their own? No one would, for example, quote a chef as saying people should eat out rather than go to restaurants, or a car salesman’s claims that mass transportation is a greatly inferior mode of travel.
What Europeans chose to do about their education is not my business, or that of the USA, but the parents are correct about their fundamental rights, and this certainly counts as persecution, if people are threatening to take their children or do what their parents consider harm to them. The article actually seems to think that physical harm is a legitimate reason, but threats to lose your children are not! I have neither children, nor much in the way of paternal instincts, but as I understand it, most parents would prefer genital mutilation to the loss of their children. These people are being punished for their beliefs and private practices, and they are indirectly threatened with the break-up of their families - the very factor that supposedly drove Abraham Lincoln into the anit-slavery camp!
Meanwhile, our Federal immigration officials, unable to stem the swarm of MS-13 operatives expanding their territory, are settling for picking on well-educated, successful people who come here openly and lawfully when their laws become intolerable. Tennessee said they could stay, so why the hell is ICE trying to swoop in and save Tennessee from its own generosity? A state that has more monuments to the founder of the KKK than to the three native sons it elected to the presidency combined is not going to be turned into New Germany by a music teacher & his brood. And hey! We have the Von Trapps as an historical precedent! I thought the Justice Department was all in favor of keeping kids with their parents, to the point of storming a Miami home on Easter in tactical rig with automatic weapons pointed at unarmed civilians in their own residences?
More sinister is the idea that the country would oppose their asylum "so as not to offend a close ally." Yes, the last country we declared war against, which WE have deployed troops to defend, and has not exactly been famous for their reciprocity towards us is “a close ally.” What is the point of the USA if we are going to throw over a bedrock principle to maintain friendship with a country that would turn on us in order to maintain their intrusion into the private lives of their citizens’ families? And what is Germany going to do to us anyway? Cozy up to Russia? Good luck with that. There are many reasons to reject immigrants who come here. “It would make their former government happy,” is NEVER an acceptable one.
As far as the homeschooling goes, my mother is an elementary school teacher who loathes having homeschooled kids in her class (and never did it for us), but she concedes that when done properly, it is just fine. The regular schedule attributed to the Romeikes is the main factor she always cites as necessary for effective homeschooling, and aren’t the teacher’s unions always making a big deal about small class size and low ratio of students to teachers being critical? The absurd notion cited by the German teachers’ mouthpiece that a mass-consumption curriculum administered by government-employed time servers can provide a superior “breadth of education” than dedicated parents who are willing to change countries, continents and languages to educate their children should have been laughed at, rather than written up in a reputable national magazine.
Cannoli
“Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.” GK Chesteron
Inde muagdhe Aes Sedai misain ye!
Deus Vult!
*MySmiley*
“Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.” GK Chesteron
Inde muagdhe Aes Sedai misain ye!
Deus Vult!
*MySmiley*
Homeschooling: German Family Gets Political Asylum in U.S.
02/03/2010 10:30:01 PM
- 1404 Views
Looks like a win-win situation to me.
02/03/2010 11:01:22 PM
- 656 Views
Germany does have a history of getting rid of people it doesn't like *NM*
03/03/2010 02:08:37 PM
- 393 Views
Yawn. At least beckstcw was joking when he invoked Godwin's law below. I hope. *NM*
03/03/2010 02:10:18 PM
- 360 Views
That is a load of crap
03/03/2010 02:53:02 PM
- 434 Views
uhm, how would Germany be offending the US?
03/03/2010 02:56:52 PM
- 393 Views
Um.
03/03/2010 02:57:53 PM
- 282 Views
But our religious beliefs and belief in allowing religious freedom is fair game?
03/03/2010 03:09:48 PM
- 277 Views
Yes?
03/03/2010 03:40:30 PM
- 264 Views
If you made fun of the Native Americans I would be offended
03/03/2010 03:46:05 PM
- 504 Views
It's actually quite the opposite.
03/03/2010 03:57:19 PM
- 485 Views
and I would say they trying to fix intolerance with more intolerance
03/03/2010 04:13:49 PM
- 271 Views
That was probably the stupidest thing I ever saw you write
03/03/2010 03:28:39 PM
- 432 Views
You were the one who said good riddance
03/03/2010 03:43:24 PM
- 297 Views
It's the usual story of American ideology and European pragmatism.
03/03/2010 03:52:51 PM
- 458 Views
This is getting a bit off the discussion. Please keep it civil, everyone. *NM*
03/03/2010 06:55:11 PM
- 375 Views
Re: Homeschooling: German Family Gets Political Asylum in U.S.
03/03/2010 01:09:23 AM
- 789 Views
The socialization thing is mostly garbage
03/03/2010 02:32:19 AM
- 663 Views
Yep, exactly.
03/03/2010 02:41:14 AM
- 457 Views
Re: Yep, exactly.
03/03/2010 03:12:48 AM
- 433 Views
*shrugs* I said it was anecdotal. I have no hard figures, only experiences.
03/03/2010 03:28:29 AM
- 457 Views
The operative word IS mostly
03/03/2010 04:33:20 AM
- 631 Views
'Mostly' is all that matters
03/03/2010 05:46:01 AM
- 661 Views
Uhm, socialization is incredibly important.
03/03/2010 06:03:30 AM
- 635 Views
Yes, but you don't need to be taught to do it
03/03/2010 06:47:06 AM
- 596 Views
cats aren't pack or herd animals
03/03/2010 06:53:02 AM
- 579 Views
Something of an inside joke, sorry
03/03/2010 07:41:50 AM
- 622 Views
us closely associated with schools are sensitive on the issue too
03/03/2010 01:05:27 PM
- 439 Views
Re: us closely associated with schools are sensitive on the issue too
03/03/2010 10:19:21 PM
- 499 Views
I would agree that households with two working parnets shouldn't home school *NM*
03/03/2010 03:22:51 PM
- 353 Views
to jump on the "I was homeschooled and I have social skills" bandwagon...
03/03/2010 06:27:05 AM
- 968 Views
I was homeschooled through grade 12, and my mom has done pro bono legal work for HSLDA.
03/03/2010 02:20:38 AM
- 585 Views
I agree that it can be a very good option for some families
03/03/2010 04:42:21 AM
- 722 Views
Re: I agree that it can be a very good option for some families
03/03/2010 05:16:17 AM
- 552 Views
It depends on the public school.
03/03/2010 05:23:09 AM
- 595 Views
Re: It depends on the public school.
03/03/2010 05:45:07 AM
- 597 Views
"done right" is not always the case
03/03/2010 05:58:26 AM
- 419 Views
Re: "done right" is not always the case
03/03/2010 06:14:43 AM
- 734 Views
Re: "done right" is not always the case
03/03/2010 06:31:04 AM
- 645 Views
Well let's talk stats then.
03/03/2010 06:55:14 AM
- 608 Views
please do not get me started on statistis.
03/03/2010 07:11:19 AM
- 530 Views
Your comments on public school educations have rather limited relevance to other countries, though.
03/03/2010 09:53:30 AM
- 662 Views
While I support homeschooling, this is ridiculous.
03/03/2010 04:48:40 AM
- 719 Views
Meh.
03/03/2010 05:20:50 AM
- 643 Views
one year in a public school
03/03/2010 05:32:13 AM
- 663 Views
Re: one year in a public school
03/03/2010 05:58:48 AM
- 462 Views
No, I think i will nitpick.
03/03/2010 06:11:44 AM
- 579 Views
This is getting off track and wasting time.
03/03/2010 06:26:36 AM
- 629 Views
I'm not even certain it's 100% legal.
03/03/2010 06:34:44 AM
- 416 Views
Yes, but we can't argue abuse of law.
03/03/2010 06:51:23 AM
- 534 Views
I only used Mexicans because I'm from Arizona
03/03/2010 07:04:29 AM
- 630 Views
I think I have the gist of it,
03/03/2010 07:17:40 AM
- 554 Views
we haven't heard anything about their beliefs for me to think they're stupid.
03/03/2010 02:54:25 PM
- 637 Views
According to the Süddeutsche Zeitung...
03/03/2010 03:38:13 PM
- 563 Views
Say what?
03/03/2010 09:38:40 AM
- 509 Views
Being able raise your kids by your beliefs is a frivolous matter?
03/03/2010 03:21:23 PM
- 435 Views
Germany is not saying "you can't raise your kids by your beliefs"
03/03/2010 03:31:01 PM
- 559 Views
It's not a recent law, and supposedly other German families have moved to France and the UK.
03/03/2010 03:45:56 PM
- 658 Views
I think that would fly in very face of political assylum
03/03/2010 04:12:48 PM
- 593 Views
Yes, but they did not need political asylum.
03/03/2010 04:28:16 PM
- 627 Views
how is that different then other political refuges we allow in?
03/03/2010 04:55:14 PM
- 518 Views
I believe Legolas linked an article
03/03/2010 04:57:09 PM
- 502 Views
I never saw the link
03/03/2010 05:08:21 PM
- 417 Views
I'm not sure if they offered "formal" assurances or some such
03/03/2010 05:21:54 PM
- 341 Views
that was a mayor, I doubt he would have the final word on the issue
03/03/2010 05:46:22 PM
- 403 Views
You don't have a law about removing children from parental custody? At all?
03/03/2010 09:43:15 PM
- 556 Views
They can take your kids from for not sending them to school but not for home schooling them
03/03/2010 10:35:48 PM
- 558 Views
Compared to not being able to feed your kids, yes, it is.
03/03/2010 03:42:58 PM
- 439 Views
yes but we don't grant political assylum for being hungry
03/03/2010 04:34:23 PM
- 521 Views
no we don't.
03/03/2010 04:50:31 PM
- 398 Views
Do you have a better system?
03/03/2010 05:05:42 PM
- 686 Views
Immigration processes could certainly use some reform
03/03/2010 05:32:22 PM
- 489 Views
The system sucks, big government typically does not function well
03/03/2010 05:48:25 PM
- 421 Views
Oh, and did you miss the part where the federal government is appealing the decision? *NM*
03/03/2010 09:40:42 AM
- 357 Views
I would consider the threat of losing my children because of my beliefs to be a real threat *NM*
03/03/2010 02:54:08 PM
- 397 Views
Doesn't matter why, but all parents should have the right to homeschool.....
03/03/2010 04:48:57 AM
- 455 Views
That whole thing is pretty silly
03/03/2010 12:18:45 PM
- 690 Views
Re: socialising.
03/03/2010 06:13:49 PM
- 666 Views
I am opposed to homeschooling but believe it should be a legal option.
03/03/2010 02:32:34 PM
- 606 Views
I think you make a good point here
03/03/2010 05:22:59 PM
- 643 Views
but...but...parents can't educate their children outside of school!!
03/03/2010 05:40:30 PM
- 579 Views
I don't agree with them I just support their right to be wrong
03/03/2010 06:04:11 PM
- 648 Views
The statistics are flawed, as I've noted above
03/03/2010 07:07:11 PM
- 496 Views
they tend to beat private schools as well would should flatten out the demographics
03/03/2010 07:53:38 PM
- 577 Views
Your views on this are not fact-driven
03/03/2010 09:13:07 PM
- 658 Views
No, what you're saying is that my answer isn't driven by STATISTICS.
03/03/2010 10:36:50 PM
- 588 Views
Granted, but there is no obvious source for bias
03/03/2010 10:57:19 PM
- 512 Views
You mean aside from the fact that you are already arguing about it?
04/03/2010 12:14:02 AM
- 421 Views
Yes, I mentioned this in my reply to Tom, see below...
04/03/2010 12:19:42 AM
- 560 Views
And the wikipedia article you pointed me to had a different study that contradicts your point.
03/03/2010 10:42:54 PM
- 506 Views
Religious or *moral* instruction
03/03/2010 10:49:48 PM
- 612 Views
I haven't really "met" you the way I meant it in that reply
03/03/2010 11:48:11 PM
- 413 Views
Granted but for our purposes I think people on this site would qualify
04/03/2010 12:05:03 AM
- 559 Views
Umm Massachusetts did have slavery in 1717
03/03/2010 02:55:25 PM
- 513 Views
His argument on the law of Germany is a bad one generally, though, not just for that reason.
03/03/2010 03:31:00 PM
- 431 Views
Wow....so this got the board going. A question for everyone...
03/03/2010 06:02:57 PM
- 704 Views
I think it is incumbent on the state to show that kids are being in some way harmed
03/03/2010 06:07:13 PM
- 613 Views
Interesting
03/03/2010 06:25:43 PM
- 722 Views
I never said there should be no limits on what parents should be able to do
03/03/2010 06:38:53 PM
- 669 Views
I think it's safe to say teaching your kids to be little sociopaths qualifies as harm.
03/03/2010 09:17:48 PM
- 443 Views
I think so too
03/03/2010 10:46:41 PM
- 669 Views
I think the problem there was it was seen as inherently political, that, and showing harm.
03/03/2010 11:44:21 PM
- 499 Views
Yes they do. Provided...
03/03/2010 07:04:46 PM
- 546 Views
There is a reason why education until 18 (or 16, depending) is not merely a right, but a duty.
03/03/2010 10:00:53 PM
- 613 Views
Hmmph. Inappropriate action on the part of the judge who allowed them to stay.
03/03/2010 06:22:08 PM
- 561 Views
You just skip the part where they have to show they are being persecuted
03/03/2010 06:54:20 PM
- 674 Views
As I said, most people would prefer to have their safety threatened to losing their kids. *NM*
06/03/2010 10:14:52 PM
- 420 Views
*walks in, looks around*
03/03/2010 07:52:09 PM
- 650 Views
Interesting
03/03/2010 11:02:27 PM
- 636 Views