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Please tell me you have a source for that quotation. Other than me. Joel Send a noteboard - 21/01/2010 12:31:27 PM
I'll not leap to conclusions; I ran around for twenty years thinking I coined a phrase from Voltaire because the only times I'd ever seen it was immediately after typing it. If someone else said it though, you either misquoted them or their logic is all shot to hell.
you are remarkably self-consistent in them. There's something perversely admirable about a logical philosophy with which one almost completely disagrees.
I feel the same way about what my father used to call "honest liberals."

Honesty is a very desirable trait.
EDIT: You really are an anarcho-capitalist, aren't you?
Technically, a capitalist is an investor, so no. I am in favor of very limited government and personal freedom above social justice. I do not suscribe to any sort of capitalist ideal, nor do I labor under any delusion that capitalism or the free-market makes things better. Over all, a free market places the least restriction on personal freedoms, and I believe that property rights are the keystone or foundation of all other rights. If property rights are not respected, the other rights are no more than privileges granted by the true powers that be in a state (whether government or big business or religious hierarchies), which may be then revoked as they will. The best guarantor of everyone's freedom is for everyone's freedom to be respected. If that translates into archo-capitalism, because I respect the right of an employee to work for whatever conditions HE decides are most favorable and an employer to pay what HE believes the work is worth, so be it. Likewise, when it comes to intersection of personal morality and civil law, I believe in allowing people enough leeway to damn themselves.
"When God put man in a garden, He girt him with a sword/ And sent him forth a free knight, that he might betray his Lord."

I'll not leap to conclusions; I ran around for twenty years thinking I coined a phrase from Voltaire because the only times I'd ever seen it was immediately after typing it. If someone else said it though, you either misquoted them or their logic is all shot to hell. The line is that CIVIL RIGHTS are fundamental, because it is without those that all others become but privileges granted by a powerful elite who can and will rescind them when it suits them. Otherwise the proper response to "why are you raping that girl?" would be "because I own her; wanna see the receipt?" We fought a war over this, remember? ;) The Souths logical and strategic error there was making it about state and property rights, because civil rights trump both; that's why the Ninth and Tenth Amendments are written as they are. The legacy of that error is how many people think only racists believe in states rights because they think the Civil War repealed the 10th Amendment. Because the South made civil and property rights equal, but subordinate to absolute states rights, and industrialists chafing at planter dominance let them, knowing what would happen. It's also why when I hear people complaining their earnings are being "stolen" to provide people who'd get them no other way health care, food, housing, education and other things I consider civil rights I just stare at them in the hope the sheer growing weight of my contempt will alert them to their logical error and help them remember their humanity, if no one elses.

I'm annoyed on several levels now: I feel you quoted me without attribution, inaccurately, to rebutt the very point I frequently made on wotmania. If you have an independent source for the statement in question I'll withdraw my first and possibly my second objection, with sincere and humble apologies, but the construction is so similar to something I said on wotmania more times than I could count I can't believe it coincidental; change "property" to "civil" and it's just a (thinly disguised) paraphrase. Also, you clearly did use another quote because you formatted it accordingly (but still without attribution. ) The last objection stands regardless: If someone else said it first and in that way, they're wrong; if property rights>civil rights people could be property in a democracy and we'd need to repeal different Amendments than the Tenth. I'll go further: Excepting states rights, I can think of no right in this country that is not given to INDIVIDUALS, making property and all other rights particular civil rights (and once again subordinating property rights to a greater one. )
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LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
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I may have lost a friend over same sex marriage - 17/01/2010 08:03:26 AM 1407 Views
the problem with your friend is the "southern evangelical christian" part - 17/01/2010 09:07:02 AM 715 Views
They believe gay marriage is ongoing unrepentant sin. - 17/01/2010 12:04:58 PM 723 Views
God your a moron. - 17/01/2010 09:10:17 PM 661 Views
be nice - 18/01/2010 06:26:58 AM 573 Views
<shrug> They can believe that all that they like - 18/01/2010 08:07:28 PM 627 Views
And live accordingly. Just like everyone else. - 18/01/2010 11:10:51 PM 635 Views
Re: And live accordingly. Just like everyone else. - 20/01/2010 10:40:36 PM 587 Views
It is, I believe, hardest for the intelligent educated man. - 21/01/2010 10:29:39 AM 716 Views
You can't use logic in an irrational argument. - 17/01/2010 10:12:11 AM 612 Views
LOL... *NM* - 18/01/2010 05:21:14 AM 338 Views
You and Adam are being equally unconstructive. - 18/01/2010 06:21:45 AM 538 Views
why do you imply "constructive" is in anyway the intent? *NM* - 18/01/2010 06:32:27 AM 265 Views
*shrug* I never stopped believing in lost causes? - 18/01/2010 07:36:04 AM 527 Views
Re: You can't use logic in an irrational argument. - 18/01/2010 06:28:41 AM 669 Views
Always welcome. - 18/01/2010 07:31:27 AM 765 Views
We finally converted you - 17/01/2010 08:43:25 PM 551 Views
Not much of a friend then. Good ridance to bad friends. *NM* - 17/01/2010 08:51:02 PM 410 Views
I agree. A friend who can't respect differences of opinion is no friend at all. *NM* - 17/01/2010 09:11:33 PM 269 Views
seriously. *NM* - 17/01/2010 10:46:17 PM 230 Views
Only because such sentiment is my pet peeve...condemning exclusivity is hypocritical. *NM* - 19/01/2010 12:37:37 AM 298 Views
yeah no kidding - 18/01/2010 06:30:45 AM 540 Views
It forces other people to accept THEIR ideology that same sex unions are legitimate. - 18/01/2010 01:49:20 AM 706 Views
I would assume, then, that you don't support any government-mandated health care? - 18/01/2010 02:07:40 AM 537 Views
Correct - 18/01/2010 04:29:04 AM 623 Views
Although I disagree with the vast majority of your arguments, - 18/01/2010 08:50:09 AM 615 Views
Thank you. - 20/01/2010 01:47:34 AM 768 Views
Please tell me you have a source for that quotation. Other than me. - 21/01/2010 12:31:27 PM 627 Views
It's GK Chesterton! What the hell are you going on about? - 27/01/2010 02:41:00 AM 506 Views
Link? - 27/01/2010 09:28:22 AM 592 Views
I can't find a link to the exact quote - 27/01/2010 12:14:19 PM 712 Views
Re: Link? - 27/01/2010 01:38:36 PM 729 Views
Perhaps we should define our terms more precisely. - 15/02/2010 11:28:09 AM 1092 Views
we do not exist in a free market. - 18/01/2010 04:09:37 AM 544 Views
And that's bad. Since when has the correct response to oppression been "accept further oppression"? *NM* - 18/01/2010 04:30:44 AM 277 Views
I am simply pointing out your arguments do not apply to the present economic environment. - 18/01/2010 04:46:04 AM 499 Views
No I am not. - 19/01/2010 10:44:31 PM 620 Views
That's utter nonsense. - 18/01/2010 04:19:57 AM 576 Views
Re: That's utter nonsense. - 18/01/2010 04:41:27 AM 598 Views
civil marriages DO have a purpose. - 18/01/2010 04:49:12 AM 572 Views
Re: civil marriages DO have a purpose. - 19/01/2010 10:47:18 PM 632 Views
Re: That's utter nonsense. - 18/01/2010 07:13:54 AM 577 Views
Re: That's utter nonsense. - 19/01/2010 10:59:45 PM 546 Views
Re: That's utter nonsense. - 18/01/2010 07:15:50 AM 664 Views
Re: That's utter nonsense. - 20/01/2010 01:38:37 AM 460 Views
Are you at all surprised? - 18/01/2010 07:59:30 AM 571 Views
A truly free country means I don't have the freedom to shoot you - 18/01/2010 05:57:44 AM 655 Views
You really said nothing, right there. - 18/01/2010 08:34:33 AM 612 Views
I presume you are equally against the current set up - 18/01/2010 12:31:33 PM 649 Views
He said as much in his response to me above. *NM* - 18/01/2010 09:37:49 PM 225 Views
That's such an amusing argument - 18/01/2010 08:17:15 PM 538 Views
I'm against people with pasta based nicknames on fantasy forums *NM* - 19/01/2010 03:03:31 PM 235 Views
cannoli is a pastry *NM* - 19/01/2010 07:25:04 PM 213 Views
I have no problem with people with pastry based names, just pasta - 21/01/2010 12:28:44 AM 490 Views
I can't help but find it funny - 18/01/2010 12:51:57 PM 512 Views
So... - 18/01/2010 03:39:33 PM 645 Views
I think you missed who was the one to walk out - 18/01/2010 04:11:05 PM 535 Views
you acept your friends with their warts or you don't - 18/01/2010 06:45:13 PM 647 Views
I think you missed who was the one to walk out *NM* - 18/01/2010 08:01:25 PM 207 Views
I don't think it was that clear - 18/01/2010 10:01:32 PM 561 Views
I don't think it is all that clear yet, either - 18/01/2010 10:27:54 PM 601 Views
I wasn't taking sides - 18/01/2010 10:57:39 PM 477 Views

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