Well, Timothy McVeigh was in OUR Army.
The Name With No Man Send a noteboard - 20/11/2009 03:55:18 PM
that all terrorist groups have political reasons for their deeds. That's pretty much part of the definition of terrorism - using violence in order to make a political entity do something you want. There's no "mislabeling" about it.
I agree that the rules and laws governing civil justice in the US - some of which are, as I've argued before on these boards, seriously exaggerated in favour of the defendant - shouldn't apply to al Qaeda prisoners captured abroad, though, and trying them in military courts may well be the best alternative. If they're captured in the US, otoh, I'm not sure what makes them different from e.g. Timothy McVeigh.
I agree that the rules and laws governing civil justice in the US - some of which are, as I've argued before on these boards, seriously exaggerated in favour of the defendant - shouldn't apply to al Qaeda prisoners captured abroad, though, and trying them in military courts may well be the best alternative. If they're captured in the US, otoh, I'm not sure what makes them different from e.g. Timothy McVeigh.
American. No subhuman terrorist at all. A human terrorist. I'm unclear on the difference, but perhaps one of our fellows can enlighten us both. I'm hoping it involves more than being American.
However, I don't believe many Constitutional rights are geographically specific. It's not like you can avoid the American legal system by committing crimes against it in another country. If American justice can prosecute Americans for patronizing juvenile Thai brothels and extradict them for statutory rapes from 30 years ago, I think they can prosecute foreign nationals for mass murder, too. A lot of our laws are exaggerated on the defendants behalf, but we had to choose whether to prioritize guilt or innocence and did so on the basis of that John Adams quote I like so much. When people lose respect for the law they soon ignore it (indeed, it's happened to some extent already) and that is not in societys interest any more than executing the innocent is.
Regardless, I'm not going to call bin Laden a general or his people soldiers. I can respect the soldier willing to die for his beliefs, but the terrorist murdering unarmed innocent bystanders for them does nothing respectable. I won't treat him like an animal, because neither of us is one, but I'm not going to grant him any special status either. No, we weren't at war with "The Aryan Republican Army" in Oklahoma and we aren't at war with Al Qaeda now. That gives them far more honor than they're due, and insults real soldiers.
No need to interrogate Osama bin Laden?
20/11/2009 12:48:27 AM
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oO uhm, what?
20/11/2009 12:54:13 AM
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If they're tried INSIDE the US, then yes, they are entitled to due process.
20/11/2009 01:44:08 AM
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Yeah, a lot of people were fuzzy on that till this started.
20/11/2009 09:30:39 AM
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on the other hand, we're more than willing to take them out back with a confession.
20/11/2009 06:34:12 PM
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New York is now asking for $75 MILLION for the KSM trial
20/11/2009 01:43:26 AM
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If this trial were being held in any other country
20/11/2009 01:56:07 AM
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It's a terrible precedent no matter how you look at it.
20/11/2009 02:13:46 AM
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It IS a terrible precdent, hence you and others are citing it 65 years after WWII ended.
20/11/2009 09:23:45 AM
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Spare me the bullshit.
20/11/2009 01:57:16 PM
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I will if you will.
20/11/2009 02:55:30 PM
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No, you won't. You never will.
20/11/2009 06:14:30 PM
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You're putting your cart before your horse is the problem.
23/11/2009 05:40:46 AM
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You don't think this is a military struggle? Wow.
20/11/2009 02:52:26 PM
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Allow me to point out...
20/11/2009 03:02:33 PM
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Well, Timothy McVeigh was in OUR Army.
20/11/2009 03:55:18 PM
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That's the thing, they aren't a terrorist group
20/11/2009 04:54:31 PM
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It would help if you would offer any argument in favour of your stance.
20/11/2009 08:43:08 PM
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I only use the word army cause I can't think of a better one
21/11/2009 04:32:01 AM
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Military struggles involve militaries.
20/11/2009 03:23:14 PM
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Once again, bullshit.
20/11/2009 06:09:31 PM
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This is wrong
20/11/2009 07:41:35 PM
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We're a long way from the shore of Tripoli.
23/11/2009 05:59:19 AM
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Your little diatribe in the beginning only makes me glad...
22/11/2009 05:32:57 AM
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I understand your "jihadist narrative"
22/11/2009 06:36:41 PM
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No you don't
22/11/2009 11:16:18 PM
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Oh, so you know better than Army attorneys about Miranda rights?
22/11/2009 11:52:00 PM
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I can explain it to you right now if you want?
23/11/2009 08:21:48 AM
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Credible legal and moral justifications for not trying terrorists in civilian court:
23/11/2009 02:56:19 PM
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Re: Credible legal and moral justifications for not trying terrorists in civilian court:
24/11/2009 04:55:12 AM
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I'm glad that you will never be in a position where a decision you make can affect my life.
23/11/2009 12:27:35 AM
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Actually people of my thinking are already making decisions that affect your life.
23/11/2009 08:29:24 AM
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Please explain to me how military tribunals compromise my principles?
24/11/2009 02:54:18 AM
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And your little hyperbolic rant would make more sense if it were grounded in reality.
22/11/2009 11:47:17 PM
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Looks like we'll get a Not Guilty plea, and a defense focusing on condeming US foreign policy
23/11/2009 12:36:47 AM
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They'll publicly accuse us of tyranny and brutality in front of a jury and without our censorship.
23/11/2009 08:27:13 AM
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My main objection is the awful precedent set by trying prisoners of war here in America.
24/11/2009 02:57:13 AM
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"My main objection is the awful precedent set by trying prisoners of war here in America. "
24/11/2009 06:57:34 AM
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We've had Mohammed in custody for over 6 years...
23/11/2009 07:56:49 AM
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I've already responded to your absurd statements, but let me reiterate a few here
23/11/2009 02:59:09 PM
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And I've responded to yours
24/11/2009 04:57:58 AM
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It's not, at least for me, that we feel the civilian courts are inadequate
24/11/2009 05:28:51 AM
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Good analysis of the situation.
23/11/2009 08:17:01 AM
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It isn't about sending a message. It's about horrible war fighting strategy.
24/11/2009 02:59:31 AM
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No. It's about not using a horribly ineffective strategy just to send a message to terrorists.
24/11/2009 09:29:06 AM
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enemy combatants and terrorists
23/11/2009 08:03:25 PM
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They're not different because from the Third World, but because terrorists.
24/11/2009 08:09:13 AM
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