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Re: I'd be more supportive of hate crime legislation as a whole if it made any real sense to me Brian Send a noteboard - 24/10/2009 04:51:43 AM
1) Hate crime laws originated in response to groups such as the KKK (well technically dozens of groups that called themselves KKK or Klansmen in the 60s, the national organization of the KKK didn't really exist after the 40s). Pretty much the KKK had decades upon decades of immunity for no one was willing to prosecute and if you were willing to prosecute the jury had a very large chance of not convicting. Thus making it a federal issue very much reduce the corruption/intimidation the KKK posed at the time.

2) The idea of hate crime laws isn't just to punish the crime, but to also prevent intimidation.

Both of these are fine, and it makes complete sense. The KKK could do anything it wished and get away with it for a long time. My personal attitude though is that for it to be a hate crime it should be a crime committed in conjunction with a hate group. If it's just some drunk idiot that decides he wants to go beat up a gay man then he should be punished for being a drunken idiot. If he did it as a member of one of these hate groups though, then it should be treated differently. While the action may be the same, it seems the real goal of the legislation is to deter these groups, therefore why not make that a stipulation of the law for it to become a federal crime? The power of these hate groups have greatly diminished, and in this era of lightning fast news allegations of intimidation by hate groups are going to be brought to light swiftly.

3) Hate crimes laws have always been perfectly fine with equal protection. This is because they are affecting all races, religions, colors, national origins, and now disability, sexual orientation, and gender identity. If someone perform a hate crime targeting a man due to his Christianity it is just as much as hate crime if the person targeted was Jewish or Muslim. Same thing if a gay man targeted a straight man for he was a stupid "breeder" or something.

That's why the changes make sense to me, is that they are expanding the laws to protect the all the groups of people that face discrimination. The theory makes sense to me, but the actual practice thus far doesn't.

4) Due to past legislative efforts the FBI tracks hate crimes, both threats of credible violence and actual

There are a lot of those kinds of crimes, and those are only the ones that are reported. According to a couple criminal justice courses I took the real figure is probably double that, or more.
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Matthew Shepard act passed - 23/10/2009 07:54:07 PM 781 Views
Meh - 23/10/2009 08:06:22 PM 372 Views
Federal punishment is usually harsher then state law - 23/10/2009 09:27:49 PM 356 Views
I honestly don't care that federal law is more harsh - 24/10/2009 01:04:16 AM 346 Views
68-29, eh? Party line division? *NM* - 23/10/2009 08:25:07 PM 137 Views
More or less - 23/10/2009 08:35:10 PM 355 Views
All hate crime legislation is stupid..... - 23/10/2009 10:15:02 PM 372 Views
I'm sure Orwell would be intrigued by his own prognosticative abilities. - 24/10/2009 12:52:24 AM 381 Views
Didn't we already slice crimes by degree of intention (e.g., murder vs. manslaughter) pre-Orwell? - 24/10/2009 05:23:56 AM 358 Views
Not sure I agree there - 24/10/2009 02:29:13 PM 329 Views
How about DADT, or employment non discrimination, or federal benefits for civil unions/marriages? - 24/10/2009 01:23:06 AM 361 Views
See..this is much more important than Hate Crime Legislation, and it actually accomplishes something *NM* - 24/10/2009 01:52:31 AM 129 Views
Agreed, but - 24/10/2009 02:12:11 AM 331 Views
I'd be more supportive of hate crime legislation as a whole if it made any real sense to me - 24/10/2009 02:22:46 AM 341 Views
Re: I'd be more supportive of hate crime legislation as a whole if it made any real sense to me - 24/10/2009 04:07:52 AM 393 Views
Re: I'd be more supportive of hate crime legislation as a whole if it made any real sense to me - 24/10/2009 04:51:43 AM 358 Views
So it's inherently worse for a gay man to get beaten up than a straight guy? - 24/10/2009 03:45:43 AM 314 Views
Doesn't there have to be an indication ... - 24/10/2009 04:33:49 AM 336 Views
Doesn't matter, Same crime, same punishment, with no extra preference given to anyone. - 24/10/2009 04:48:22 AM 324 Views
It does matter to what you were saying, though. - 24/10/2009 06:32:32 AM 390 Views
One factor in this I don't like though - 24/10/2009 01:54:53 PM 326 Views
Correct - 24/10/2009 04:55:43 AM 332 Views
All orientations are protected. - 24/10/2009 05:17:55 AM 333 Views
Isn't killing or assaulting someone already illegal? - 24/10/2009 05:50:15 AM 331 Views
As per my reply to you above: - 24/10/2009 06:42:24 AM 348 Views
I said nothing as to what I think about hate crimes laws. - 24/10/2009 06:47:51 AM 338 Views
yes and how many black men are sentenced for attacking white men? - 24/10/2009 02:00:26 PM 307 Views
Couldn't say, Ray. - 25/10/2009 04:43:12 AM 469 Views
I don't support that anymore then I support hate crime laws. - 25/10/2009 02:33:27 PM 348 Views
they need to throw out all of the thought crime laws *NM* - 24/10/2009 02:04:30 PM 122 Views
Minor point. - 24/10/2009 04:46:25 PM 355 Views
Yeah I saw that and kind of scoffed as well - 24/10/2009 07:57:23 PM 353 Views
well since almost everything he said turned out to be BS why not that too? - 25/10/2009 02:36:25 PM 341 Views
That's my main objection, yes. - 25/10/2009 10:50:49 PM 339 Views

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