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Yup. A no vote in the referendum might improve things - a little. Legolas Send a noteboard - 16/03/2017 06:04:24 PM

View original postWilders has already won in one respect, I think, because he moved the conversation further to the right. I have to agree with many of his ideas. Essentially the paradox of tolerance is you can't tolerate the intolerant. In the Netherlands, a nation with progressive social equality, can you let in people who do not believe in full equality for women and gay people? Whose ideas about religion can come into conflict with the ideals of the secular state. While I believe in immigration right now, I also believe in assimilation and learning the language and cultural mores of the host nation as a requirement. Don't learn it? Get sent back to wherever you came from.

The more sensible of his ideas have been represented in the VVD and to a lesser extent other parties on the right/centre all along, going back to the nineties before Wilders himself started his career in the VVD. The difference is that parties like the VVD are governing parties, so they have to be a little realistic about what they put in their programmes. Wilders can afford to release a one-page party program with manifestly unconstitutional proposals like banning the Qur'an - it's not about suggesting actual policies or ideas, it's just about carping from the sidelines.

And as for not accepting people who don't respect full equality for women and gay people - do keep in mind that the Dutch aren't all so liberal and secular. They have an ultraconservative Calvinist minority (in a handful of municipalities they're even a plurality or majority), represented by a party which even refused to allow women to be candidates for political office, until 4 years ago when they were forced to change their policy. Now their line is that women are allowed to be candidates, but the party still prefers that they don't hold political offices. Should those also be kicked out then?

View original postI wonder if the Netherlands will turn into another Denmark in that respect. Denmark seems to have gone further along the road in restricting immigration than most other European nations.

True. And who knows, but I don't really see that happening any time soon.
View original postTurkey acting the way it does is just going to cement the fact that it is not going to get into the EU anytime soon. If ever. I wonder if Turkey behaving this way will actually help parties on the right in Europe.

Turkey stopped even wanting to join the EU a good while ago - or at least, Erdogan's government did. It's just they don't want the insult of being rejected by Europe, they want to reject Europe themselves - while of course maintaining the economic benefits of the free trade area.

In this particular case, according to one poll I saw, an impressive 86 percent of the Dutch supported Rutte's position versus Turkey in this spat - in other words, Turkey behaving this way benefits whoever happens to be in power and can make a big fuss about protecting the national honour against nasty foreign governments.

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Dutch elections: Well that was an anticlimax. - 15/03/2017 10:37:32 PM 779 Views
Too bad, but Merkel is the big prize. - 16/03/2017 01:05:40 AM 498 Views
What are you hoping to see happen in Germany, exactly? - 16/03/2017 07:06:43 AM 467 Views
For Merkel to lose..... - 17/03/2017 02:20:58 AM 520 Views
No one (seriously) thought he was going to get a majority. He still gained seats - 16/03/2017 10:24:10 AM 458 Views
Of course not, but still this is a disappointing result for him. - 16/03/2017 05:44:41 PM 446 Views
It will take time but eventually he will win. Or someone like him. - 16/03/2017 09:34:26 PM 578 Views
Let's hope so. - 16/03/2017 09:42:47 PM 486 Views
Watching Turkey is like watching a slow motion train wreck. - 16/03/2017 01:03:43 PM 485 Views
Yup. A no vote in the referendum might improve things - a little. - 16/03/2017 06:04:24 PM 436 Views
As irritating as the Calvinists can be, I don't think you can kick them out. - 16/03/2017 09:39:45 PM 480 Views
Yeah, as you may have guessed that also wasn't my plan. - 16/03/2017 10:40:26 PM 478 Views
Ah, the emigre community disconnect - 16/03/2017 11:29:54 PM 448 Views
I sure wish I paid more attention to European politics. *NM* - 17/03/2017 02:26:21 AM 277 Views

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