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By all means. Legolas Send a noteboard - 07/03/2017 11:58:41 PM

View original postOn a few things.....


View original post1) I didn't bring up my faith...you did.

True.
View original post2) You made the assumption that my position is "dogmatic" (which normally, I would take as offensive. However, I know you well enough by now that I doubt that was your intent).

Also true, and I can see how that could cause offense if I'm wrong about it. But keep in mind I just meant 'dogmatic' as a description of what one's position is based on - as in, any position that is based primarily or entirely on religious doctrine. (Wiktionary tells me that dogmatic can also mean 'Asserting dogmas or beliefs in a superior or arrogant way' - that I certainly didn't intend to say).
View original post3) You made a pretty big call that gender reassignment surgery and Christianity is not an either/or deal. That's a pretty bold statement...

Okay, I will rephrase that by adding one word: 'gender reassignment surgery and Christianity is not necessarily an either/or deal'. Obviously I can see that for many people it would be.
View original post4) That I think this topic is undertaken as a "whim". I never said that...nor even implied.

You didn't say it, but I did see that implication, must have been a misunderstanding then. This was based on your paragraph regarding 'do what makes you happy', which you were arguing is a dangerous attitude because emotions shift from one day to the next. Given the context of what we were discussing, that sounded to me like you were suggesting some people did it, or wanted to do it, on a whim.
View original postYou have the stance that undergoing that gender reassignment "doesn't do them or others any harm." I would challenge that statement. I can point to all sorts of harm to both them and others. The question then comes about as to where does the harm to both them and others balance their own (already admitted by you) mental health issue.

Harm in the sense of an invasive physical surgery - yes, that's the price to pay, which they wouldn't do if they didn't consider it worth it. Harm to others, to a degree that it would be a serious factor in the balance, I don't see except in very specific circumstances.

But yes, this is what the whole debate boils down to - arguably we could've skipped all the preceding steps and immediately jumped to the question whether gender reassignment is a good thing, for those longing for it, or not.

View original postSo this is mildly tangential, but I'll tell you a personal story. I have a good friend who has a phobia which is coupled with OCD. Besides his doctor and family, I'm the only other person who knows about it. I've spoken with his family about it. I've even spoken with his doctor about it. And you know what the doctor said....no matter what. Do not play into his issue. Do not play along. All it will do is cement into his mind that his way of thinking is the proper way of thinking. His mental issue is based upon a lie...it's overshadowing his perception on a reality that does not exist . His feelings on the topic are in error. It is this mental linkage that has to be addressed. Believe me, it would be far easier to play along...to give into it and live the lie that he has superimposed over reality.

Having read an implication that you didn't intend before, I will ask it point blank before assuming anything this time: is it your intention to imply that, as a rule, gender dysphoria is 'a lie' and that transgenders' feelings about gender reassignment are inherently 'in error'? If not, maybe you should rephrase a few things there.

If yes, then I don't really think there's any point in continuing this discussion, do you?

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Self-Identification vs. Mental Health Issue *trigger warning* Jeordam - 06/03/2017 08:53:17 PM 789 Views
I have to say I'm very confused about what your question is... and I don't think it's just me. Legolas - 07/03/2017 12:04:27 AM 518 Views
Yes, I'm talking about... Jeordam - 07/03/2017 05:03:18 PM 524 Views
Okay, clear. Legolas - 07/03/2017 06:50:00 PM 529 Views
<3 *NM* nossy - 07/03/2017 06:57:23 PM 242 Views
Mind over Matter? Jeordam - 07/03/2017 09:06:53 PM 501 Views
Mind over body might've been more apt. I believe I did answer your question actually. Legolas - 07/03/2017 10:41:01 PM 578 Views
Let's be clear.... Jeordam - 07/03/2017 11:17:02 PM 481 Views
By all means. Legolas - 07/03/2017 11:58:41 PM 496 Views
Well that's the crux of the topic isn't it.... Jeordam - 08/03/2017 05:48:50 PM 426 Views
That takes us right back to body vs mind, doesn't it? Legolas - 08/03/2017 07:13:32 PM 476 Views
Well that would be the difference... Jeordam - 08/03/2017 08:54:59 PM 528 Views
So do tell me what in fact the purpose of our discussion is, then? Legolas - 08/03/2017 09:40:09 PM 478 Views
What can I possibly say? Jeordam - 09/03/2017 05:45:54 PM 465 Views
There's a distinction to be made with eating disorders. Ghavrel - 08/03/2017 08:31:08 PM 476 Views
That brings us all the way back around.... Jeordam - 08/03/2017 09:05:40 PM 517 Views
Because nossy - 08/03/2017 09:30:37 PM 506 Views
Two things... Jeordam - 09/03/2017 05:50:32 PM 461 Views
you're missing a rather obvious difference, aren't you? damookster - 08/03/2017 09:50:09 PM 492 Views
Yeah, Snoop was just saying the same. nossy - 08/03/2017 10:14:41 PM 533 Views
Well now we are bridging a rather big gap.... Jeordam - 09/03/2017 07:12:26 PM 511 Views
Re: Well now we are bridging a rather big gap.... nossy - 09/03/2017 08:52:30 PM 592 Views
So two conversations now..... Jeordam - 09/03/2017 09:39:55 PM 491 Views
Re: So two conversations now..... nossy - 09/03/2017 10:23:39 PM 472 Views
And this is what you're overlooking.... Jeordam - 09/03/2017 10:47:47 PM 507 Views
I could be wrong nossy - 09/03/2017 11:15:22 PM 477 Views
Sex vs Gender Jeordam - 09/03/2017 11:33:54 PM 498 Views
So this is an interesting point..... Jeordam - 09/03/2017 05:56:12 PM 495 Views
Sure about that? damookster - 09/03/2017 08:53:14 PM 467 Views
It's a mater of persepctive.... Jeordam - 09/03/2017 09:12:09 PM 494 Views
wrong damookster - 09/03/2017 09:41:53 PM 422 Views
Sure. Jeordam - 09/03/2017 09:57:48 PM 517 Views
sure, could be damookster - 09/03/2017 11:56:31 PM 447 Views
I feel like this has been said several times already, in several ways Sareitha Sedai - 10/03/2017 04:10:27 PM 481 Views
It has been said, and I understand what is being said... Jeordam - 10/03/2017 06:01:06 PM 485 Views
Re: It has been said, and I understand what is being said... Sareitha Sedai - 10/03/2017 07:58:57 PM 490 Views
I find your wording problematic and agenda driven. damookster - 07/03/2017 11:58:03 PM 503 Views
I appolozie if I offended Jeordam - 08/03/2017 06:18:41 PM 482 Views
no worries damookster - 08/03/2017 06:36:10 PM 497 Views
It always goes from it doesn't hurt anyone to the whole world has to change accommodate me *NM* random thoughts - 10/03/2017 02:46:38 AM 291 Views
That's true - doesn't change the issue as such but certainly there's intolerance on that side too. *NM* Legolas - 10/03/2017 07:45:43 AM 232 Views
Both extremes are dangerous random thoughts - 10/03/2017 12:59:41 PM 527 Views
Take your trigger warnings back to tumblr where they belong ßelals Girl - 07/03/2017 12:21:05 PM 603 Views
*ha* Jeordam - 07/03/2017 05:04:10 PM 514 Views
I self-identify as a deity, so I need you to use My preferred pronouns in reference to Myself Cannoli - 07/03/2017 05:15:56 PM 441 Views
So I could self-identify aerocontrols - 08/03/2017 12:36:39 AM 428 Views
I read through this thread. kazetaran - 10/03/2017 12:44:03 AM 643 Views
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