You mean force their government to deal with their southern neighbours. The Mexicans themselves constitute a rapidly declining share of the new illegal immigrants. But I wouldn't be so sure that all those Trump supporters realize and accept that 'Mexico will pay for the wall', just like almost everything else Trump has said about his foreign policy and the funding of his domestic policy proposals, is just him being a 'smart-ass'.

Of course you can't seriously expect a completely accurate and reliable 'budget proposal' from a campaigning politician, and even less so in the US, but there's still a difference between the usual kinds of creative accounting and optimistic calculations on the one hand, and Trump's wholesale nonsense on the other. The wall is the least of it.

Again with the 'no one cares'. How would you know that, and secondly, how many of those people have an even remotely realistic idea of how painful, exactly, it would be - and to be clear when I say painful I mean for the country as a whole and its economy, not just the expelled people? Not that I claim to have such accurate information myself, but you would certainly better have it, and distribute it to all potential Trump voters, before saying that 'no one cares'.

That said, of course it would be possible as you say to police the border better and send back more illegal immigrants, without ruining the American economy. But in a political environment where voters take every opportunity to express their frustration about lying politicians, I still can't see it as a good thing to exceed even the usual political standards, even Obama's standards if you will, of promising more than you can ever deliver, the way Trump does on immigration and on everything else. I do not think that most of these voters are as smart as you and Tom, and as capable of building up realistic expectations for themselves of what Trump would and would not be able to do.

Yes. You can make a valid argument that it's a difference in degree rather than a difference in kind, but Trump does stand out among either Democrats or Republicans in terms of the outlandishness and absurdity of his proposals - while, paradoxically, attracting those voters who are the most angry about underdelivering, lying politicians. Hard to see how he can ever be anything but an even bigger disappointment that will anger them even more. If he wins, that is - if he loses he can keep promising the moon, secure in the knowledge he'll never have to deliver.

One is reminded yet again of Brexit, and of Cameron taking his revenge on Johnson by putting him on the spot to start delivering what he promised.

I for one am not voting for such people, so won't argue with most of that. Except the part where you describe it as east vs west - I said ultranationalist, not ultra-islamist. These Grey Wolves are very much a product of Western culture, albeit an outdated, 1930s sort of Western culture.