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We agree on most things, then. Good. Legolas Send a noteboard - 26/09/2015 11:09:40 PM

View original postThe facts are symptomatic. If, as you suggest, people knew the important details, the rote knowledge and trivia might be something easily dismissed. On the other hand, every time someone focuses on the "important stuff", both end up disappearing. There is no reason for soldiers to know how to march, or needing to obey their superiors all the time. The apocryphal origin of the military salute, as a gesture of submission that would render the subordinate vulnerable, and give the superior first crack at him in a contest of arms, almost certainly no longer applies, so why bother having soldiers salute? Because in the military, people die when you get it wrong, and long institutional experience has taught them to keep from getting the big stuff wrong, you have to drill on the small stuff.

That's a fair point - no matter what you're teaching, you probably should expect a majority of your students to have forgotten most of the less essential stuff within a disappointingly short time, if they are not refreshed or used somehow. Forgetting half of the presidents if you started out knowing them all may not be so bad - but if you only knew fifteen in the first place, and then you forget half, that becomes a bigger problem.

So if you're reducing the sheer amount of facts and details students need to know, you do need to ensure that the "retention" percentages increase. And absolutely, that people are drilled in the process of looking up information, and critically evaluating information sources - around here you do see a lot of that, I assume in the US too, but perhaps even more is needed.

Learning Latin is definitely very useful, though it becomes a lot more debatable if, like in some American HSes, it's an either/or choice between Latin and actual living languages - if you don't use your Latin-honed grammar skills to study other languages afterwards, maybe you'd have been better off taking Spanish or German from the start.

View original postThe supposed ready availability of information requires people to be drilled in the process of looking it up. No one looks up Obama's religion, they just make wild-ass guesses. That ignorance IS the result of not being taught by rote and drill, to value having facts for their own sake. It's not like things have changed, either. No one speaks Latin, but there is no debating the efficacy of learning it on other language skills, in one's own native tongue. People have been complaining about the lack of need for this or that subject as long as they have been going to school, but for the longest time, generational experience made them turn around and teach the same way when the choice of curricula devolved onto them. It has only been in recent generations where there was sufficient cultural impetus to make ignoring tradition (i.e. time-tested, multi-generational experience) fashionable, people have had the opportunities to act on it.

For sure, every generation is inclined to overestimate its own uniqueness and its ability to see things better or just differently from the one before - over and over again. But the generations now in school, and the ones coming after, do grow up in a world that is radically different in technological terms - there are objective reasons why schools and the content of lessons do need to change this time, and fast. As they are doing - certainly they don't always get it right, but standing still is not an option.
View original postThe theoretical ideal of people knowing the basics about the important presidents as opposed to being able to recite a list might or might not be a real thing, but in my experience, people who best fit that description don't know as much as they think they do, and in discussions of the topic, I find myself having to explain all sorts of things to them. Not everyone who knows all the presidents is going to be an expert, but it's a basis for expertise. I forgot many of the lists and so forth myself, after learning them in grade school, but the knowledge came back when I began studying history in depth and as an adult. No one is bemoaning the ignorance of the states or Presidents or kings of England, for their own sake, but because the general ignorance of those details means that people lack reliable and important knowledge of social studies. A man with only one foot might be able to run, but you wouldn't be smart to bet on it, and any practical athlete worth his salt almost certainly has two.

Well, the idea is based on a kind of zero-sum approach, I guess - time spent learning one thing (exact order of presidents) is time not spent learning something else (details about the presidents). Of course education is more complex than that, and I too sometimes feel that modern education is reducing knowledge of some things without the corresponding improvement in other areas.

I do think that modern history education is imparting insights in terms of socio-economic backgrounds, minority history, foreign cultures, etc. which earlier generations did not get, and if that involves a trade-off with facts like the names of less important presidents, so be it. Partially to correct an old imbalance in the teaching, partially because those things are simply becoming more relevant and more important in today's world.

I'm less certain about the evolution of language education - it's not a bad thing to focus more on direct communication and speaking skills than before, but at the end of the day learning any other language will always involve vocabulary and grammar drills, there's no real way around that.

View original postWell, aside from the Jeremiah Wright scandal which has been hushed up as much as possible with so much independent media, and long forgotten for the most part, by the opposition in light of an actual track record to attack now, there really is nothing to indicate one way or another what religion he is. With all that in mind, someone named "Barack Hussein Obama" is mostly like to be a Muslim. In fact 50% of all known people with that name HAVE been Muslims.

True, he's not a very religious person clearly. And sure, given his name and background, he might easily be Muslim - except that, as I think you'll agree, Obama would never have been elected as a publicly avowed Muslim in the current climate, so viewing him as a Muslim also implies, much more problematically, that he's involved in a gigantic conspiracy to conceal his true religion.

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I don't understand education priorities - 22/09/2015 04:21:44 AM 792 Views
The nation is falling apart due to stupidity - 22/09/2015 02:57:18 PM 572 Views
It amazes me how many parents don't seem to think they have a role in thier children's education - 22/09/2015 05:44:33 PM 509 Views
Accelerated Reader! - 22/09/2015 08:37:33 PM 555 Views
Re: Accelerated Reader! - 23/09/2015 01:18:37 AM 627 Views
It doesn't necessarily follow that education is getting worse, though. - 22/09/2015 06:22:31 PM 617 Views
But it has. College is now teaching what high school should have. - 22/09/2015 09:00:20 PM 695 Views
I'll take your word for that, but... - 22/09/2015 11:02:28 PM 553 Views
Re: It doesn't necessarily follow that education is getting worse, though. - 23/09/2015 02:03:03 AM 506 Views
To some extent - not entirely - it's just that the ideas of general knowledge were different. - 23/09/2015 06:25:36 PM 581 Views
You keep making this error in your logic. - 23/09/2015 07:44:00 PM 489 Views
Johnny can't read is hardly new - 28/09/2015 05:25:29 PM 520 Views
It's more symptomatic, IMO - 26/09/2015 05:49:12 PM 512 Views
We agree on most things, then. Good. - 26/09/2015 11:09:40 PM 459 Views
German? - 27/09/2015 03:21:51 PM 516 Views
Do you have the full statistics? That'd be interesting. - 27/09/2015 04:59:40 PM 480 Views
Can you list those language choices? - 28/09/2015 07:21:37 AM 543 Views
Wait, who is that a question to? - 28/09/2015 06:38:20 PM 484 Views
You. - 28/09/2015 08:05:54 PM 640 Views
Oh. I couldn't tell you exactly. - 28/09/2015 08:39:53 PM 525 Views
My local High School only offers Spanish and French - 28/09/2015 05:34:27 PM 483 Views
Indeed. - 27/09/2015 11:41:07 PM 449 Views
My experience is similar. - 02/10/2015 09:14:58 PM 456 Views
That 43% is another BS survey result - 28/09/2015 04:36:51 PM 496 Views

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