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I do agree with you in large parts - but I don't see the full picture as bleakly. Maybe wrongly. Legolas Send a noteboard - 23/09/2015 10:16:54 PM

You conclude (or seem to?) that education as a whole is worse than it was before. I don't think I agree with that, but of course it depends on what your priorities in education are.

A college degree as a generic item: to some extent, yes. No doubt, people with only a HS diploma 1 or 2 generations ago, had a better knowledge of some topics than someone with a degree from a second-class college now. But that college degree, second-class or not, does give its holder specialized knowledge in a given field and opens up career possibilities that wouldn't have been there for just a HS diploma - regardless of the holder's wider general knowledge. I realize that won't apply equally in all fields obviously, but unless we're talking about borderline fraudulent cases (Trump University comes to mind), getting a degree does make a real difference.

Clearly education is becoming more goal-oriented and career-oriented, and the old ideals of what ought to be general knowledge are weakening. But then, society is changing - education should change along with it. As I mentioned to Cannoli, at heart I sympathize with you both in regretting the decline specifically in historical and geographical and grammatical knowledge, because I too have a keen interest in all of those - but I'm trying to distinguish between my personal preferences, and what the preferences of society as a whole should be. The old ideals are in a sense a luxury, to be maintained if possible but not at the expense of things more directly related to the future career.

Now if you tell me that you think education outcomes are growing worse in every aspect, even in preparing for careers, well, you'd know better than I.

View original postYou're assuming that a college degree is a generic item, like, say, a passport. The reason so many Americans have college degrees now is because there are so many shit colleges out there that are essentially teaching remedial and high-school level knowledge. There are for-profit scam colleges like the University of Phoenix. Every town of at least 25,000 people likely has a "community college", and plenty of those are moving to being 4-year institutions that provide degrees of extremely dubious quality. It means nothing to look at the degrees Americans hold. I can state clearly that my parents' generation had a more rigorous high school education than mine did, and from what little I can tell of the educational system today, even less is actually taught, except whatever happens to be on the endless standardized tests that Common Core has brought with it. Almost daily I see articles about people graduating from high school and even college without the most rudimentary skills.


View original postI don't see any "indisputable" evidence of improvement. In fact, I see anecdotal evidence for decline.

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I don't understand education priorities - 22/09/2015 04:21:44 AM 794 Views
The nation is falling apart due to stupidity - 22/09/2015 02:57:18 PM 574 Views
It amazes me how many parents don't seem to think they have a role in thier children's education - 22/09/2015 05:44:33 PM 511 Views
Accelerated Reader! - 22/09/2015 08:37:33 PM 557 Views
Re: Accelerated Reader! - 23/09/2015 01:18:37 AM 628 Views
It doesn't necessarily follow that education is getting worse, though. - 22/09/2015 06:22:31 PM 619 Views
But it has. College is now teaching what high school should have. - 22/09/2015 09:00:20 PM 697 Views
I'll take your word for that, but... - 22/09/2015 11:02:28 PM 555 Views
Re: It doesn't necessarily follow that education is getting worse, though. - 23/09/2015 02:03:03 AM 508 Views
To some extent - not entirely - it's just that the ideas of general knowledge were different. - 23/09/2015 06:25:36 PM 583 Views
You keep making this error in your logic. - 23/09/2015 07:44:00 PM 491 Views
I do agree with you in large parts - but I don't see the full picture as bleakly. Maybe wrongly. - 23/09/2015 10:16:54 PM 533 Views
Johnny can't read is hardly new - 28/09/2015 05:25:29 PM 522 Views
It's more symptomatic, IMO - 26/09/2015 05:49:12 PM 514 Views
We agree on most things, then. Good. - 26/09/2015 11:09:40 PM 459 Views
German? - 27/09/2015 03:21:51 PM 516 Views
Do you have the full statistics? That'd be interesting. - 27/09/2015 04:59:40 PM 480 Views
Can you list those language choices? - 28/09/2015 07:21:37 AM 543 Views
Wait, who is that a question to? - 28/09/2015 06:38:20 PM 486 Views
You. - 28/09/2015 08:05:54 PM 640 Views
Oh. I couldn't tell you exactly. - 28/09/2015 08:39:53 PM 525 Views
My local High School only offers Spanish and French - 28/09/2015 05:34:27 PM 485 Views
Indeed. - 27/09/2015 11:41:07 PM 451 Views
My experience is similar. - 02/10/2015 09:14:58 PM 458 Views
That 43% is another BS survey result - 28/09/2015 04:36:51 PM 498 Views

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