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Re: Oh, I'm sorry. beetnemesis Send a noteboard - 20/06/2015 04:44:24 PM

View original postNo, dude, he's not. Just because you don't like something, or someone, doesn't mean you're a -phobe or an -ist. This is one of those stupid things liberals have pulled. You don't like Obama? Racist. You don't like gays? Homophobe.


If you don't like Obama, then you don't like Obama. You don't like all black people, or attribute various stereotypes and prejudices to them? Racist.

And yes, if you attribute stereotypes and prejudices against gays, then you're a homophobe. Like, that is what that word means.

I'm sorry if you feel like you're being pigeonholed. I'm sure you're a complex, beautiful person, and it probably hurts to be marginalized and described by only one of your attributes (hint). That attribute being, of course, how you feel trans people should be treated.

(Note that I'm not condemning you for thinking transgenderism is a mental illness. I think you're wrong about that, for reasons that I'll go into later. But what I'm criticizing is your reaction to this, and how you think trans people should be treated.)


View original postBut the thing is, that's not what we are. We are people who have our own opinions and beliefs, and we are just as free to express them as anyone else, but labeling people is the way to write off those opinions and beliefs as something to be ignored.

This is the "Why can't you tolerate intolerance!" argument. It's nothing new, and it comes up any time this sort of conversation happens. If you are using similar arguments as the KKK, you might want to take a breath for some perspective.

And yes, you are definitely free to express your opinions. Note that no one is suggesting you be banned, or this thread deleted, or anything like that?

Stop being a martyr. Just because people disagree with you and tell you you're wrong, doesn't mean you're being oppressed.




View original postI will be the first to admit that the right has been dicks to LGBT people; labels were used to write them off for years, and that was terribly wrong. The one great thing about this whole movement is that it has done a good job of making us see the LGBT community as people, instead of shadows in the dark to be feared or ignored.


View original postBut now, liberals are just writing off any dissent to their opinions, the same as the right used to do. EVERYONE is people, and EVERYONE deserves to be heard. But liberals have been trying to bump anyone who disagrees with them, out of being 'EVERYONE'.


...not at all? Again, you are free to say whatever you want. We're free to say why we think you're wrong.


View original postLikewise, changing the definition of gender to match the wishful thinking of a small minority of the population, does not actually change what gender means.


View original postSecondly, there is a word for someone who feels like a person of a different sex than they were born as. That word is 'disorder' as in 'mental disorder'. Something is broken, and they need help, not to be mutilated so that their skewed image of themselves can take over their reality.


View original postIf a schizophrenic believes there's spiders in his skin, would you implant actual spiders into his skin so he wouldn't be wrong?

Do you have a handy word for "The sex that you feel like you are, irrespective of your body?"

I get the impression that you haven't done any research in this area. You should. Long story short, there are fundamental characteristics of transgender brains that are different than cisgender* brains. I'll link to a Wikipedia summary, if you'd like.

So it comes down to that. If we can see that there are actual, physical brain differences in a transgender person, what do we do? Even if we had the technology (which we do not), do we "fix" them? Would you fix someone who is left handed instead of right handed? Maybe if they asked you to. Or maybe stores would just also sell some left-handed scissors and you would get on with your life.

*cisgender means, essentially, sex and gender match. Please do not pitch a fit about liberals making up words.


View original postLook, I know this isn't a popular thing to say, and we'll end up with you writing me off as a -phobe, which you probably already have. But the fact is that these people need help, not 'support' being who they are, and all of this hullabaloo nowadays is simply destroying any chance of actual mental health professionals being able to help these people, which is what they truly need.

If I had written you off, I wouldn't be responding to you. I believe you're ignorant, not malicious.

There a few questions you're raising here, all of which are much more complex than you seem to think. For example, what is a mental illness? Is the answer, "someone who radically deviates from the "norm," or maybe "someone who can't perceive reality?"

But pretty much no one is the "norm." And human brains are notorious for constantly fooling themselves.

You say you see LGBT people as people. So that's good. A gay man is pretty radically different. And a lot of people would say that the "reality" is that men are attracted to women. How should we deal with that?

That's not a rhetorical question- how should we deal with gay men, TyrReborn?

So, skipping to the end of this line of thought, it seems to me that "mental illness" is only an issue when it affects the quality of life of the person or others.

Does a person with a penis thinking he's a woman somehow make him unfit to function in society? Does it make him unable to think, love, work? Does throwing on a dress make him likely to attack someone?

No, it does not. And therefore, is not a mental illness. At worst, it's like being gay, or left-handed.

(i.e. something that doesn't matter, yet conservatives over history have pitched a fit about. Yes, left-handedness is in that category).

So in the end, if it turns out the only impact to a transman's quality of life is how people like you treat him... which should we fix? Which CAN we fix? (Those gay-rehabilitation camps don't work so well)


View original postI have no problem with changing my mind, and would be thrilled if someone on this messageboard managed it. However, that's never going to happen when someone opens a forum for a legitimate discussion, and everyone else ignores his points to make him look like a -phobe.


No one is ignoring any points. People are saying Cannoli's points are WRONG. And they are providing reasoning why.

An opinion isn't a magical, untouchable thing. If you can't defend it, and it's not strong enough to stand on its own, it's not going to last.

I amuse myself.
Causes of Transgenderism
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