"having their conscience seared with a hot iron; forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth."

Not that anyone has done such a thing * co"celibate"priesthoodugh * nor any harm by it * coglobalpedophileconspiracyugh *. None would dare, since restricting priesthood to sexually repressed people and calling them deviants for indulging ANY sexual desire would produces a priesthood experienced at depravity and its concealment. That may be why neither Christ nor ANY Apostle ever said anything about marriage except to 1) forbid divorce for any reason but adultery, 2) forbid bigamists as deacons and all higher positions, and 3) reference the first Popes in-laws. Oh, and "it is better to marry than to burn;" good advice.

Charity begins at home, so fix the Republicans pedophiliac former House Speaker before moving on to any liberals. Perhaps helping him, Huckabees pedophiliac co-author and the Duggars incestuous exemplar of "Christian family values" will provide enough experience and moral authority to help those who can never be good enough unless ultraconservative. For that matter, wtf do LIBERALS owe anyone any explanation for the real or imagined faults of a self-professed "conservative Republican Christian" like Jenner? That IS what this is really about, after all: A conservative rich white man draped in Ol' Glory wants to remain in the Grand Old Partys country club despite violating its dress code, escalating the GOPs Libertarian/fundie civil war. Why are the rights self-inflicted wounds anyones fault or problem but its own?

moondogs question is valid on far more than sexual orientation/identity.* Can conservatives stop pretending greedy fraud and outright theft satisfy the Golden Rule or greatest and second greatest commandments (which Christ said contained the whole of doctrine)? Since the only way to get out more than one puts in is to TAKE it from elsewhere, profit motive cannot even satisfy divinely ordained THERMODYNAMICS laws, much less moral ones. Yet the GOPs last VP nominee smilingly averred his two greatest guides are the Summa Theologicas author and a vitriolic atheist who declared Christian charity a mental illness denoting inferiority. How can you reference conservative fellow traveler J.D. Rockefellers commitment to Social Darwinism without owning him AS a conservative liberals have always condemned FOR Social Darwinism?

Can conservatives stop pretending tax evasion, outsourcing and enriching hostile nations is "patriotic"? How does the US sending self-declared hostile states all its wealth and manufacturing—while producing nothing but unemployment and starving homeless Americans—help any nation but enemies? Is importing lead-painted toys and poisoned grain to kill our own children "God Blessing America," or conservatives destroying it?

No, condemning others for faults one shares is hypocrisys essence, because it condemns solely (a) PERPETRATOR, not an ACT excused in another perpretator (i.e. oneself.) Repentance, restitution and Grace change that by terminating the act and absolving guilt for it, but while the act and guilt remain moral authority on the subject "remains" nothing but absent.

"He who is without sin cast the first stone" implicitly forbade stone casting by ALL ADDRESSED (if we split hairs over "first," no one could cast a second nor any other stone until/unless someone cast the first, which only Christ was qualified to do, and HE refused, so: No stones for anyone.) When conservatives (or anyone) attack they should expect defense, but Weight Watchers and AA members are not attacking their OWN persistent faults in liberals, who are therefore not defending against such an attack. Further, that analogy adds doctrinal ignorance of Grace to demonstrated ignorance of charity; such are the perils of presumptous authority. Those, and, y'know, the rampant pedophilia…. :vomits:

There is a thing called "liberty of conscience." It is often unpopular in Vatican City, but remains integral to the US and Christianity (else life would be deterministic and each persons feelings, works, faith, submission to Christ and salvation pre-ordained/denied and unalterable; did you become a Calvinist without telling anyone? ) Liberty of conscience is Americas seminal contribution to the world, our solution to the bloody Thirty Years War and English Civil War that spawned so much American colonization, so our "fundamental" birthright, respect for which is incumbent on all American conservatives. A mans right to swing his arm ends where it meets anothers nose, and not until. If it meets no nose but his own (even if some BELIEVE but cannot PROVE it does) it is no one elses business. Tumors are human LIFE too, but since they are not human BEINGS their removal is not murder.

I concede grave reservations about whether homosexuality and transgendering causes self-harm, mainly because they preclude the lifelong enrichment of the literal and fullest form of human union (i.e. childbirth.) And I agree in principle that no particular form of universal temptation we all inherited through our carnal flesh exempts anyone from responsibility and eventual accountability (one way or the other.) But, ultimately, everyone elses real or imagined sins or self-harm are also neither my fault nor problem. In terms of this discussion, no partisans who casually dismiss children starving because they "choose" birth to impoverished parents has any place to paternalistically protect others from genuine choices to live their beliefs. My serious issues with Catholic doctrine are surely obvious, but one thing I have long admired is its consistency: When the Pope says he is pro-life, he does not mean "except criminals."

*Not that it matters, but if it helps you sleep nights: I know no evidence Jenner (who publicly identifies as "NONsexual") is GAY, only transgender. All (known) past sexual relationships were with women, and, in terms of parenting, siring half a dozen kids by three wives likely provides ample parental fulfillment. But if not: Not my call. Nor yours. And spare us the pretention to "respect Jenners right to self-determination despite strongly disagreement with the chosen form:" The vitriol spawning this thread shows no respect for anyone nor anything, and pretending otherwise insults not only Jenner, but also those of us who DO respectfully disagree.