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Refined is probably a better word for it (though some can be overturned) gban007 Send a noteboard - 09/06/2015 08:47:22 AM

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The exact date of the last common ancestor humans and chimps had is in question but the fact that we had on is not. Our understanding of the sun and how it works changes with time but we no it exist. The evidence that stars are really distant suns is really no stronger than the evidence that species changed and evolved over time or that the started with simple and moved to more complex. If you want to believe evolution was guided by god there is no way to prove a negative but don't doubt it happened.

I accept evolution as a fact and theory, but quite like the following quote on scientific facts:

'A fact is a hypothesis that is so firmly supported by evidence that we assume it is true, and act as if it were true'

It shows that science remains open minded, it will treat it as true, until such time as evidence comes up to suggest otherwise.

It does mean though that I think people should be wary of treating any scientific facts / theories as absolute, unchanging truth, as that isn't the case, and could create doubt in science if they see things change (such as some reactions to reclassifying Pluto as no longer being a Planet, after so long being taught that there are nine Planets in our solar system).

Talking to my wife, we came to a landing that when teaching science, then there is only place for the theory of evolution, but that there could (should?) be religious studies available as well (unbiased / covering a number of major religions) that can go through the different beliefs around creation etc, as creation science and most similar ideas have originated out of religious ideals, even if they are not limited to such.

I found the following links today that I thought have some interesting information about these sorts of discussions:

http://undsci.berkeley.edu/article/0_0_0/howscienceworks_20

http://undsci.berkeley.edu/article/0_0_0/sciencetoolkit_06


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Can liberals all stop their posturing about adhering to science? Cannoli - 05/06/2015 12:04:13 AM 1217 Views
It's not really a difficult concept to understand, man beetnemesis - 05/06/2015 02:23:34 PM 651 Views
Re: It's not really a difficult concept to understand, man Cannoli - 05/06/2015 09:05:03 PM 648 Views
It's so difficult to parse out your trolling sometimes beetnemesis - 07/06/2015 02:37:11 PM 626 Views
Some people feel like they are women, though born as men. So they take steps to live The Shrike - 05/06/2015 04:47:14 PM 638 Views
The issue is science, and you respond with ...feelings? The point called, and it misses you too. Cannoli - 05/06/2015 09:31:09 PM 666 Views
Are you seriously claiming your post is motivated by science? Legolas - 05/06/2015 10:39:01 PM 520 Views
No, by hypocrites citing science as a trump card when it suits them & ignoring it on other issues Cannoli - 06/06/2015 12:33:53 AM 641 Views
If you want to accuse liberals of ignoring science there so many better examples random thoughts - 09/06/2015 04:35:58 PM 642 Views
Your views may be the norm now. But not for long The Shrike - 08/06/2015 08:09:41 PM 646 Views
I agree with you in theory random thoughts - 05/06/2015 09:43:43 PM 521 Views
I think it's okay to be weirded out by it Tom - 08/06/2015 10:28:02 PM 657 Views
gender issues aside the evidence of evolution is undeniable to the extreme random thoughts - 05/06/2015 08:37:37 PM 521 Views
Well then why do scientists feel the need to make up their own fake evidence? Cannoli - 05/06/2015 09:16:40 PM 569 Views
The specifics and our understanding always changes random thoughts - 05/06/2015 09:50:39 PM 573 Views
"A better fit" doesn't sound much like testable hypotheses and observable data Cannoli - 06/06/2015 12:38:49 AM 707 Views
Science and absolute, unquestioned fact... gban007 - 06/06/2015 11:16:10 AM 584 Views
The theory is refined that is all random thoughts - 08/06/2015 07:11:40 PM 559 Views
Refined is probably a better word for it (though some can be overturned) gban007 - 09/06/2015 08:47:22 AM 549 Views
We can find Naederthal DNA in modern humans random thoughts - 08/06/2015 07:01:01 PM 513 Views
I am 3% Neanderthal! My 23andMe Test told me so!! *NM* The Shrike - 08/06/2015 08:07:35 PM 319 Views
If thought about doing that random thoughts - 09/06/2015 02:31:11 PM 521 Views
We share 1/3 of the DNA of flowers. Where are those in our ancestral tree? Cannoli - 09/06/2015 02:20:46 PM 547 Views
Of course they are in our family tree random thoughts - 09/06/2015 02:39:18 PM 554 Views
Re: Of course they are in our family tree Cannoli - 13/06/2015 05:29:16 PM 505 Views
Americas (Christian?!) "accepted religious standards" can and have been changed to vindicate robbers Joel - 15/06/2015 03:37:12 AM 527 Views
So? My point is that liberals would not allow you to teach that in a public school Cannoli - 15/06/2015 01:43:43 PM 458 Views
Liberals consistently teach that in schools, despite conservatives calling it “revisionist history” Joel - 17/06/2015 10:00:48 AM 573 Views
The problem with the "there can not spontanous life" argument is random thoughts - 15/06/2015 02:29:06 PM 503 Views
"when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth" Joel - 17/06/2015 10:02:00 AM 528 Views
will since omnipotent beings are ut side the realm of the possible we can eliminate that random thoughts - 17/06/2015 05:45:36 PM 583 Views
Who says omnipotent beings are outside the realm of possibility? Joel - 20/06/2015 03:59:44 AM 645 Views
You can always find unaswered question in science but that gives no weight to religion random thoughts - 22/06/2015 01:52:25 PM 506 Views
Not unanswered, unanswerABLE: Huge qualitative difference Joel - 24/06/2015 04:43:54 AM 553 Views
...I'm confused, are you claiming that no real fossils have been found? beetnemesis - 07/06/2015 02:41:12 PM 543 Views
And they prove what, exactly? Cannoli - 07/06/2015 11:24:43 PM 644 Views
Er, well yeah, that's the point- Scientific knowledge keeps growing and challenging itself beetnemesis - 08/06/2015 02:58:26 PM 589 Views
It's not at all the same. Cannoli - 09/06/2015 02:53:06 PM 549 Views
Dude, you're monologuing like a supervillain and going off on insane tangents. beetnemesis - 09/06/2015 03:27:37 PM 646 Views
In fact, fossils are not even necessary sometimes -- we can see it over the course of generations moondog - 08/06/2015 09:06:23 PM 566 Views
That's not evolution, idiot. Cannoli - 09/06/2015 02:31:27 PM 555 Views
um, that's actually EXACTLY how natural selection works, thanks for arguing my point so nicely moondog - 10/06/2015 12:19:32 AM 532 Views
They're not changing. Same species, same characteristics. We're just finding different proportions. Cannoli - 13/06/2015 05:35:09 PM 465 Views
"It's not like they are going to run into difficulties later in life"? Seriously? Joel - 15/06/2015 03:36:42 AM 471 Views
Re: "It's not like they are going to run into difficulties later in life"? Seriously? Cannoli - 15/06/2015 02:23:36 PM 510 Views
Thermodynamics only applies to the concrete, not the abstract Joel - 17/06/2015 10:03:18 AM 518 Views
I would not have expected to see you adhere to a scientist position Tom - 07/06/2015 03:06:11 AM 598 Views
I am not; I am criticizing the people who apply it inconsistently Cannoli - 07/06/2015 11:14:05 PM 639 Views
Perhaps she does not believe in hell The Shrike - 08/06/2015 12:55:50 PM 457 Views
You are confusing science and scientism Tom - 08/06/2015 10:15:57 PM 521 Views
For what it is worth, I have encountered many people who satisfy those stated "scientism" criteria Joel - 15/06/2015 03:37:36 AM 484 Views
can republicans stop their posturing about adhering to morality? moondog - 08/06/2015 09:17:16 PM 559 Views
My own homosexual inclinations would not constitute hypocrisy in opposing deviant behavior Cannoli - 09/06/2015 02:14:56 PM 583 Views
at least you're finally open about your homosexual attraction to the former Bruce Jenner... moondog - 10/06/2015 12:05:10 AM 640 Views
"… in the latter times some shall depart from the faith… speaking lies in hypocrisy…" Joel - 15/06/2015 03:36:08 AM 599 Views
See - more liberal doublespeak Cannoli - 15/06/2015 03:30:57 PM 565 Views
“Who are you calling, ‘you people’?! ” Joel - 17/06/2015 10:08:32 AM 505 Views
Some other stuff Cannoli - 15/06/2015 03:45:59 PM 593 Views
See what you (and the devil, of course) made me do? Joel - 17/06/2015 10:16:35 AM 555 Views
Good luck with that; (at least) two beloved long time RAFOlk are post-medically transgendered Joel - 15/06/2015 03:34:33 AM 432 Views
I find this entire discussion absolutely hilarious. TyrReborn - 15/06/2015 04:19:31 PM 470 Views
well I am sucb a died in the wool liberal I just cant help myself random thoughts - 15/06/2015 06:25:57 PM 432 Views
Yeah, you're to the Left of Trotsky. *NM* Tom - 15/06/2015 07:31:28 PM 272 Views
...what? Attacking points is pretty much what debate IS. beetnemesis - 16/06/2015 04:29:05 AM 495 Views
No... TyrReborn - 17/06/2015 08:00:57 PM 478 Views
OK? beetnemesis - 18/06/2015 04:03:32 AM 512 Views
duplicate post, ignore *NM* beetnemesis - 18/06/2015 04:03:47 AM 344 Views
Oh, I'm sorry. TyrReborn - 18/06/2015 09:05:42 PM 579 Views
A thesis delayed till the SECOND paragraph is, at best, misplaced Joel - 20/06/2015 09:37:36 AM 555 Views
Bah, damn you for good points! TyrReborn - 21/06/2015 09:33:49 PM 570 Views
Oh, man, been there, done that, got the T-shirt Joel - 22/06/2015 01:26:13 AM 494 Views
Heheh, thank you for understanding. TyrReborn - 22/06/2015 09:23:11 PM 485 Views
Shh, saying things like that will sacrifice all your credibility Joel - 24/06/2015 04:40:45 AM 517 Views
The really fun part is when grammatical gender doesn't match the sex even for humans. Legolas - 22/06/2015 10:30:33 PM 450 Views
"Mädchen" was my initial reference, changed because I think Spanish more accessible to Americans Joel - 24/06/2015 04:42:37 AM 511 Views
Re: Oh, I'm sorry. beetnemesis - 20/06/2015 04:44:24 PM 632 Views
You're missing my whole issue with labeling. TyrReborn - 21/06/2015 09:32:36 PM 563 Views
Had this post been the thread-starter it would have drawn far fewer complaints Joel - 24/06/2015 04:41:06 AM 814 Views
The sheer brazenness of the "calling bigots 'bigots' is offensive" "defense" continually amazes me Joel - 20/06/2015 04:03:46 AM 764 Views
This might be a complete non-sequitur, but... Legolas - 21/06/2015 10:38:19 PM 451 Views
I'm a hardcore lurker... TyrReborn - 22/06/2015 09:26:59 PM 403 Views
Cool. Legolas - 22/06/2015 10:14:45 PM 504 Views
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-JFfN5pKzFU *NM* Dion - 15/06/2015 05:01:30 PM 275 Views
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