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Re: I agree that reparations would be extremely difficult if not impossible to implement fairly. Cannoli Send a noteboard - 04/06/2014 02:49:13 AM


Certainly not unique, no.

I'd been typing replies to several of your points below, e.g. your curious defense of protectionism


I was actually citing the economic interests and political actions in support of the same, of the period, not necessarily advocating either one. For that matter, I support, retroactively, the Southern position more often than not, on grounds of constitutionality, principle and moral logic. As far as free trade goes, my view on that is somewhat akin to my view on peace - it's all every well and good, and a preferable state of affairs, but only if the other guy plays along. In a world where China exists, let alone is our primary trade partner, free trade is something akin to suicide. Also, we don't have free trade, we have bureaucracies masquerading as free trade organizations.
and how that compares to American dedication to free trade now (which I support, mind you), but in the end it can be summarized very simply, you figure that slavery has not contributed much to the current American wealth - that, basically, slavery was not only inhuman to the slaves but also of little value for the economy as a whole, not really benefiting anyone other than the slave owners. And I lack the hard data to disprove that, though that doesn't stop me from being sceptical.
IDK why. It's pretty much taken as axiomatic that free labor out-produces and out-performs compulsory labor, particularly in the long term. Slavery died a natural death in the north. No one, especially not the author of the article, would assert some sort of widespread morality to its confinement in a single region, when at one point it was legal throughout the country. It fell out of use, and allowed the moralists to obtain de jure prohibition of the practice, because other methods of obtaining labor were more productive. The South constantly sought the extension of legal slavery, and in the early 19th century, the issue of each state's joining the union as slave or free was fiercely contested, as the South sought to maintain equal numbers so as to prevent the free states from gaining a majority in the Senate. If slavery was a more viable or successful policy, they would not need to agitate for it, and it lacks the moral impulse of abolition.
If you look at things not from a reparations perspective so much as a perspective of acknowledging collective guilt (if such a thing exists - but if collective pride in one's country exists, you'd figure guilt should too),
And again, that's not something unique to the human race. On a personal level, it's something akin to feeling guilt for original sin.
the question of how profitable slavery was becomes less important, anyway.

I have no problem discussing the issues of pride and guilt from a non-reparations perspective... but this is not that discussion, is it?
I was just going for a broad description covering all kinds of work slaves were used for. You're right that mining wasn't really significant. A quick search showed me that there were some slaves involved in coal mining in Virginia,
Not to mention, the parts of Virginia where they mined coal are now probably in WEST Virginia, a state that seceded from Virginia at the start of the Civil War with abolition in its Constitution.
but the numbers are indeed negligible next to those in agriculture. I never even mentioned manufacturing as far as I'm aware, though as you suggest one could safely say that the condition of many workers in 19th century factories was as bad as the working conditions of slaves on the Southern plantations. In many cases even worse, but at least they weren't enslaved.
Chesterton and Belloc referred to that sort of employment as "wage-slavery" when advocating distributionism. My point about manufacturing was that slaves were absent from the industries that have contributed much more prominently to the enrichment of America than cotton or indigo plantations.
Cannoli
“Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.” GK Chesteron
Inde muagdhe Aes Sedai misain ye!
Deus Vult!
*MySmiley*
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/History: The Case for Reparations - 27/05/2014 07:08:52 PM 1126 Views
Only reparations for..... - 27/05/2014 07:34:29 PM 509 Views
you should try actually reading the article first - 27/05/2014 08:33:53 PM 603 Views
my only problem is his conclusion is weak compared with the rest of the article - 27/05/2014 08:31:54 PM 527 Views
Maybe because there is a lack of connection between the history involved and present day problems. - 29/05/2014 01:35:04 AM 485 Views
sure, and i have a bridge for sale..... - 30/05/2014 12:39:03 AM 465 Views
Re: sure, and i have a bridge for sale..... - 30/05/2014 05:06:11 PM 497 Views
faulty assumptions of your heritage aside, the point still stands. - 02/06/2014 08:54:02 PM 443 Views
Faulty assumptions is the entirety of your argument. - 11/06/2014 07:27:29 AM 498 Views
Re: /History: The Case for Reparations - 29/05/2014 01:54:48 AM 591 Views
Do you have a source where source where LBJ actually said that? *NM* - 29/05/2014 01:17:44 PM 321 Views
IIRC, Robert Kessle "Inside the White House" or something like that. - 30/05/2014 05:09:07 PM 518 Views
So some guy says some guys heard him say it? That isn't much. - 30/05/2014 05:27:13 PM 450 Views
And LBJ or his estate would have allowed such a comment to get out? - 30/05/2014 06:24:55 PM 492 Views
I agree that reparations would be extremely difficult if not impossible to implement fairly. - 29/05/2014 06:52:47 PM 531 Views
Re: I agree that reparations would be extremely difficult if not impossible to implement fairly. - 30/05/2014 06:19:33 PM 631 Views
Re: I agree that reparations would be extremely difficult if not impossible to implement fairly. - 01/06/2014 05:36:20 PM 522 Views
Re: I agree that reparations would be extremely difficult if not impossible to implement fairly. - 04/06/2014 02:49:13 AM 507 Views
sorry but I see no evidence he wants to have an open an honest discussion - 02/06/2014 02:03:29 PM 501 Views
Should Europe pay restitutions for the damage they did to Africa? - 03/06/2014 01:13:54 PM 493 Views
Sure. - 03/06/2014 06:10:49 PM 462 Views
Absolutely, but only the handful of countries that actually have a colonial past *NM* - 03/06/2014 09:28:58 PM 262 Views
that's not the way it works - 04/06/2014 01:04:46 PM 447 Views
Again, there is an assumption of profit that is not necessarily true - 11/06/2014 02:47:53 AM 612 Views
nope the EU needs to step up the line and starting paying - 11/06/2014 06:05:25 PM 552 Views
One could argue we already do. - 04/06/2014 10:55:44 PM 437 Views

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