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let's not go to extremes moondog Send a noteboard - 07/05/2014 12:33:38 AM

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the removal of something somewhere on the off-chance that someone in the future may be offended.

So the business close on Sunday. That is the business owner's right. So the City leadership (who is elected) chooses to start their meeting with an invocation (of whatever faith). That is their right to do so. As I told moondog, you sitting there listening/not listening is not you participating....prayer is active not passive.

As for when it is time to take a vote....the results of the vote are what they are. If the outcome isn't what you like, there are other avenue.

~Jeordam


it's not about the removal of something on the off chance of someone becoming offended. it's about the role of government as a non-denominational, atheistic, agnostic entity which is designed to accommodate all faiths and non-faiths equally. opening civic meetings with prayers skirts very close to the establishment clause without crossing it. the separation of church and state was included in the Constitution for a reason, and i believe this is one of those reasons. the entire point of the separation is that you are free to exercise your relgious rights in private, but that the government can not make preference of one religion/sect over another. including a religious ceremony -- especially a specifically christian ceremony -- before conducting the government's business is too close to violating the separation that is required.

if they had scheduled a rotation among the various faiths represented by the community, it would probably have never gotten to the supreme court, because it would have clearly been a policy to be inclusive and non-denominational and thus not establishing a favored religion for the invocation. but i am still struck by the fact that they seem to have not even considered having other faiths represented until those faiths began asking to be included. to me, that is why this ruling got it wrong. or at least, the reasoning behind the ruling is in the wrong direction from what i think the case is actually about -- namely that government agencies should not be favoring one religion above all others.

"The RIAA has shown a certain disregard for the creative people of the industry in their eagerness to protect the revenues of the record companies." -- Frank Zappa

"That's the trouble with political jokes in this country... they get elected!" -- Dave Lippman
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SCOTUS - Time to pray at Town Council meetings! - 05/05/2014 06:54:56 PM 1162 Views
I'm agnostic but I think they made the right decision - 05/05/2014 08:09:21 PM 774 Views
Yeah, pretty much how I feel *NM* - 06/05/2014 12:27:22 AM 344 Views
Absolutely.....I'm not religious, but I love this decision..... - 06/05/2014 02:36:29 AM 711 Views
I think you're misunderstanding the problem. It's not a question of being "offended" - 06/05/2014 02:43:26 PM 676 Views
But look at what you're advocating for... - 06/05/2014 10:55:56 PM 680 Views
let's not go to extremes - 07/05/2014 12:33:38 AM 695 Views
please point out where constitution calls for a separation of church and state - 07/05/2014 06:44:42 PM 693 Views
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion...." - 08/05/2014 12:37:06 AM 662 Views
so the answer no you can't - 08/05/2014 04:50:26 AM 665 Views
Again- it's not about being offended - 07/05/2014 04:02:29 AM 727 Views
America doesn't have seperation of church and state it has freedom of relgion - 07/05/2014 06:42:19 PM 690 Views
Not exactly. - 07/05/2014 07:01:23 PM 685 Views
The words are clear and the intent is well documented - 08/05/2014 05:13:42 AM 693 Views
Yeah, seems sensible. - 05/05/2014 10:08:39 PM 702 Views
Re: Yeah, seems sensible. - 06/05/2014 07:04:01 PM 678 Views
our Constitution expressly prohibits the establishment of religion by government, though - 06/05/2014 09:20:19 PM 712 Views
I couldn't disagree more... - 06/05/2014 10:50:19 PM 673 Views
bad analogy - 07/05/2014 12:19:26 AM 703 Views
But the GOVERNMENT is participating/supporting - 07/05/2014 04:17:32 AM 670 Views
Yeah, I'm aware. - 07/05/2014 07:03:36 AM 683 Views
That's not unreasonable - 06/05/2014 08:01:48 AM 756 Views
There's plenty that I don't want.... - 06/05/2014 10:57:41 PM 705 Views
In Keeping With Tradition Is Terrible Justification - 08/05/2014 03:37:34 AM 712 Views

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